Yet another Epic BoE situation

[Slonne 127]

it was your shoes. Put these players into your ignore list, because they are greedy.

[Oakenlix 79]

4 hours ago, J.AllenBrack said:

Is that rogue going to spend that gold right away? No probably not. They are going have to level to like 55 to be able to buy and equip some pre-raid bis like the Devilsaur set (which is also just propagating that shitty Devilsaur monopoly, the set is up to like over 400g now that they are inflating the prices, which the Boots are not even going to sell for).

So a 49 Warrior can equip the item right then and there and get use out of them then and there in the dungeon and use them outside of the dungeon while leveling, until they find better leveling boots from a BoP or such, and THEN still keep the item for tanking in raids. The rogue gets gold which will help him buy some BoE.... IF he manages to sell it for a good prices, IF whatever he wants to buy is being sold or on the AH, IF he can afford it, IF he meets the level requirement to equip the item. Those are just 4 of many IF's, what's stopping me from doing any of these if I have the Boots? None, I can use them immediately and DIRECTLY benefit from having the item, not from INDIRECTLY having gold to eventually buy an item.

But it doesn't matter how he spends this gold. It's the same base value for either of you. He may buy mana potions for all this money, and it wouldn't change a thing in his priority to roll for that BoE. When he sells it, he gets the same amount of gold that you'd save by getting this BoE. With normal healthy market it doesn't take much time to convert money to BoE or BoE to money. And you are basically saying that you need this money more because you're going to spend it sooner - yeah sure, try to get a higher salary on your job with that strategy, good luck.

4 hours ago, J.AllenBrack said:

If you can't equip an item or it isn't an upgrade, or if you aren't the require level to equip an item and someone ELSE is, then you have no claim to that item and should not need. Now that is how BoP's work now and since the beginning of the goddamn game. How are BoE's any different just because they can be turned into gold, which and be turned into something else. You don't have equal or more claim to an item that someone who can use and rightfully needs the item, therefore you have no reason to need roll against said person.

I never said someone has more claim than the others for any BoE. It's equal. And yes, BoEs are different from BoP exactly because they can be turned into equivalent amount of gold and vice versa. And as such, its equally valuable for everyone (alright, hear hear, it's happened, I admit - not 100% equally, but 99% equally, I'm sorry for all my sins).

4 hours ago, J.AllenBrack said:

So once again shut the fuck up unless you have a real point, or go play outside like a good boy.

So once again - stop being a mad crybaby just because you lost a roll and go buy these boots from AH.

 

[dwarfhunter 4]

17 hours ago, J.AllenBrack said:

 

You're absolutely right, the community USED to understand this. I'm pretty certain that most vet's from vanilla/beta have actually moved on from the game, and the people who play on private vanilla servers are mostly a younger generation of people who missed the boat and never experienced live vanilla. Most of the people who think its fine to Need on every BoE are most definitely newer players (non-vanilla/tbc or from retail) because they think that they are somehow entitled to that gold and that it should rightfully belong to them, which is probably how it is in newer mmo's, they don't realize that sort of mentality doesn't translate well into a 10+ year old game.

In vanilla wow gameplay is user and community driven and where when an item drops, it drops for a GROUP of players and they themselves must decide who gets the item (usually having a vote, as a roll, in who should democratically get an item, be it themselves or another player if they deem that they are more deserving), not everyone will get their own personal item. This is an MMORPG not a single player game, you play with other real people and if you're a toxic or greedy player in a community it doesn't go unnoticed.

You may say that "this is how its always been on my server since vanilla" but you cant really show any evidence to prove that, while the loot rules of Need before Greed were made (though vaguely) by Blizzard and the community deemed what was acceptable and not acceptable. Going into MC and having the loot set at Need before Greed, and someone in the raid rolling NEED on a BoE (for example Blood's of the Mountain, or one of the BoE blues off Ragnaros) when they couldn't use the item or only planned on selling the item, was a kickable offense, and was and is considered to be unacceptable behavior. Go to allakazam wow and find a post that says otherwise, the truth is that you can't find anything from vanilla to back the claim that GREED is indeed ≥ Need. 

Im a vanilla vet from release, and countless times people have said "oh i need its a upgrade" so you let them have and next thing you see they put it in AH for the gold rather than equip it. Im talking about back in vanilla retail, just because some needs it as a upgrade doesnt even mean they are going to equip it. This is even more common on these type of server why equip item when u can sell it and get a blue a few levels higher that is better. If you aren't twinking you dont need low level epics, theyll just be replaced in a few levels by blues. 

[Dumo 0]

thing is the way its bis for you it can be money for bis for anyone else in the group thats why its more fair to split the loot dude its fair all need on an epic since you all split the chance drop is 0.01 only, its all need or if item we say cost 250g on ah you split the money ppl do so in ubrs for example if we say the healer or the tank has alot of gold he take the item give everyone like 50g each and put the item on the ah to get back his money no class priority on epics unless is bop /// i mean preraid bis

Edited March 2, 2017 by Dumo

[Masteridley 3]

To all the people saying BoE epics are an exception to the normal rules (roll need only if you can use it) all you're saying is that you're more than willing drop your morals/ethics if the price is right. Learn to be happy for other people rather than doing whatever mental gymnastics y'all are spouting off about in order to justify your greed. 

[Oakenlix 79]

5 hours ago, Masteridley said:

To all the people saying BoE epics are an exception to the normal rules (roll need only if you can use it) all you're saying is that you're more than willing drop your morals/ethics if the price is right. Learn to be happy for other people rather than doing whatever mental gymnastics y'all are spouting off about in order to justify your greed. 

But why can't you learn to be happy for people who roll "need" on BoEs? I think your greed is stopping you! 

Rofl

[Justme 9]

12 hours ago, Masteridley said:

To all the people saying BoE epics are an exception to the normal rules (roll need only if you can use it) all you're saying is that you're more than willing drop your morals/ethics if the price is right. Learn to be happy for other people rather than doing whatever mental gymnastics y'all are spouting off about in order to justify your greed. 

thats a pretty selfish way of thinking because when I win the BOE roll and sell it to you then we can both be happy. Me with gold and you with the item. But no, you want the gold AND the item all to yourself. Now who's the greedy one?

Edited March 3, 2017 by Justme

[cargalia 2]

*skips down to the comments

 

 

 

 

why is this thread different from every other thread?

 

Shadowblade dagger dropped today everyone greeded and moved on. Grats me 100 roll. Sry u lost

Edited March 4, 2017 by cargalia

[Warl0ck 2]

Like cheap/free respecs, this is something retail has gotten right now.  If you need on a BOE, it binds to you if you roll need and win.  Would be great if they'd do the same here even if it's not Vanilla Blizz-like.

[Oakenlix 79]

56 minutes ago, Warl0ck said:

Like cheap/free respecs, this is something retail has gotten right now.  If you need on a BOE, it binds to you if you roll need and win.  Would be great if they'd do the same here even if it's not Vanilla Blizz-like.

I agree, but it's very unlikely. 

[kecko82 0]

real need > sell need

 

just ignore these jews trying to justify such cuntish behaviour

 

these items sell for a lot of gold becouse there is obviously a reason to wear them and all those people argueing to sell them are trying to tell you that there is no reason to wear them THESE PEOPLE DONT MAKE SENSE IF THERE IS NO REASON TO WEAR THEM THEN THEY WOULDNT SELL FOR MUCH GOLD

 

so there obviously is a reason to wear them and that means real need > sell need

Edited March 4, 2017 by kecko82

[Oakenlix 79]

@kecko82

This post is so stupid that it's not even hilarious, more like really sad 

[Nosleep 4]

Profit = greed 

 

Usage = need

 

Anyone trying to say that gold is a need, is very very mistaken in their interpretation of greed/need.

 

If it was the case that gold = need... then we could all need BOP items that have a 5-10g value.. because that gold will add to my pile of gold and allow me eventually to buy an item from AH.

 

All you guys stating that needing for gold is a valid need...should be ashamed!

 

I have never... ever.. heard of anyone trying to claim that needing for gold is as valid as needing for usage... be careful.. these guys are prob trolls.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Nosleep

[alkovirus 0]

poll is missing an option: Set looting rules prior to party / raid

[keck82 1]

i dont think they are "trolls" they are just used to the anonymity of retail and other games where you basically have to fuck eachother over

its also not that much of a problem if its clear from start that everyone needs  you can always ask the group if thats ok for them a little communication wont kill you

Edited March 6, 2017 by keck82

[Oakenlix 79]

On 04.03.2017 at 6:23 PM, Nosleep said:

If it was the case that gold = need... then we could all need BOP items that have a 5-10g value.. because that gold will add to my pile of gold and allow me eventually to buy an item from AH.

Good job at missing the point entirely. No, you couldn't need on all BoPs, because unlike average AH price, vendor price is much lower that its value for someone who can upgrade his gear. 

[Nosleep 4]

49 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

Good job at missing the point entirely. No, you couldn't need on all BoPs, because unlike average AH price, vendor price is much lower that its value for someone who can upgrade his gear. 

Ditto mate on missing the point... which is the principle! (also, nice sarcastic attitude opening to your post, boy do i feel like this is a mature debate now)

Funny thing is, if you had of read my post, you would see that I didnt miss the point you and others like you are making.. I just totally disagree with it... you however, did totally miss mine... but that I assume, was your intention.

Ill explain in detail... maybe then you will actually understand what is wrong with your entire principle.. but you will more than likely just say TLDR cos you have no comeback.

If its OK to need for gold.. then its ok to need for gold... unless you have some imaginary number in your head where its ok to need if its worth more than 50g but if its worth less then its not ok??... or because you can sell it on AH then i can need, but because you can only vendor it i cant?  Which has more holes than swis cheese...

You are needing an item to sell it... so you are needing for gold... selling to AH makes no difference .... there are bop items that sell to vendor for enough gold to buy me an upgrade from AH.. so the principle.. is shameful to defend.

 

Greed is Greed.... just because item X is worth 100g on AH and item Y is worth 10g to vendor, does not change the fact you are needing an item to sell it - AKA: GREED,  that someone else could use AKA: NEED

 

Your argument is that because you can sell it on AH then that means you are allowed to need it even when someone will equip it and use it now because they NEED the item.. NOT the gold.... .. oh but you need the gold to buy an item... well.. i need the gold from your BiS BOP item worth 15g at vendor cos that will directly buy me an upgrade from AH or add to a pile that is going to buy me an upgrade from AH... but you fail to see the point there, or you see it and refuse to acknowledge it.

So your argument is that selling an item to then buy another item is as much of a need as using the item... and so.. unless this logic train is too difficult for you to follow..

... i submit to you that you are needing an item to sell it and how is that different to needing BOP items  to sell... the principle is the same.. again... unless you have an imaginary number in your head thats makes it ok to suddenly decide that gold is a NEED.

 

If you truly feel that needing for gold is perfectly ok just because you're eventually getting the gold from AH instead of the vendor... you're either purposefully defending the idea because you dont want to admit its  being a greedy ninja (prob cos you have done it) or its because you are so blinkered by your need for gold that you actually believe gold is a need.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Nosleep

[Oakenlix 79]

@Nosleep

Ok, you seem to be a nice guy, I'll explain my point again, even though I do believe it'd be unnessessary if you only re-read this thread.

Look, nobody said you have the right to need on anything that gives gold. Neither that it somehow depends on the value of the item.

What matters is comparative value of the drop for group members. If you need the drop as much as other players, you roll "Need", if you need it less - you roll "Greed". It's simple as that.

With BoE, everyone needs the drop equally, because its easily convertable to gold and the other way around. If the dropped item is worth X gold, then someone who sells it on AH gets X gold from it, and someone who needs it as gear saves X gold he no longer has to spend on buying it. It's the same value.

With BoPs its different, because vendor price doesn't reflect the value of this item for someone who can equip it, as it cannot be bought. So people who need on BoPs to sell are ninjas, they don't need it as much as someone who can use it as an upgrade.

Hope it's clear now, got a bit tired reiterailting myself.

[flowqz 34]

5 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

@Nosleep

Ok, you seem to be a nice guy, I'll explain my point again, even though I do believe it'd be unnessessary if you only re-read this thread.

Look, nobody said you have the right to need on anything that gives gold. Neither that it somehow depends on the value of the item.

What matters is comparative value of the drop for group members. If you need the drop as much as other players, you roll "Need", if you need it less - you roll "Greed". It's simple as that.

With BoE, everyone needs the drop equally, because its easily convertable to gold and the other way around. If the dropped item is worth X gold, then someone who sells it on AH gets X gold from it, and someone who needs it as gear saves X gold he no longer has to spend on buying it. It's the same value.

With BoPs its different, because vendor price doesn't reflect the value of this item for someone who can equip it, as it cannot be bought. So people who need on BoPs to sell are ninjas, they don't need it as much as someone who can use it as an upgrade.

Hope it's clear now, got a bit tired reiterailting myself.

actually you can "buy" bop items due to boosts. i remember ppl in our guild selling hoj for 50g

[Oakenlix 79]

Just now, flowqz said:

actually you can "buy" bop items due to boosts. i remember ppl in our guild selling hoj for 50g

You're not buying the item, you're buying the boost. You can't get this BoP and sell it for 50 gold. So, its irrelevant.

[flowqz 34]

Just now, Oakenlix said:

You're not buying the item, you're buying the boost. You can't get this BoP and sell it for 50 gold. So, its irrelevant.

well, buying a boost for an item isnt much of a difference than buying an item. you just have to put a few minutes into it.

[Oakenlix 79]

Just now, flowqz said:

well, buying a boost for an item isnt much of a difference than buying an item. you just have to put a few minutes into it.

It's not an exchange of item for gold, it's an exchande of time for gold. In what way do you think its relevant to this discussion?

 

[Nosleep 4]

34 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

@Nosleep

Ok, you seem to be a nice guy, I'll explain my point again, even though I do believe it'd be unnessessary if you only re-read this thread.

Look, nobody said you have the right to need on anything that gives gold. Neither that it somehow depends on the value of the item.

What matters is comparative value of the drop for group members. If you need the drop as much as other players, you roll "Need", if you need it less - you roll "Greed". It's simple as that.

With BoE, everyone needs the drop equally, because its easily convertable to gold and the other way around. If the dropped item is worth X gold, then someone who sells it on AH gets X gold from it, and someone who needs it as gear saves X gold he no longer has to spend on buying it. It's the same value.

With BoPs its different, because vendor price doesn't reflect the value of this item for someone who can equip it, as it cannot be bought. So people who need on BoPs to sell are ninjas, they don't need it as much as someone who can use it as an upgrade.

Hope it's clear now, got a bit tired reiterailting myself.

As I said at the beginning of my last post. I did not miss your point.. i just totally disagree with it.

 

If a BOE item drops thats worth X gold... its value is irrelevant if its an item that someone needs.. because they need the item... saying you can convert that item into gold to buy another item and so taking it from someone who actually needs the item... is needing for gold....AKA: ninja.

 

What if the item that drops is not on AH and so the player who needs it can not farm gold in any of the other million ways there are to get gold to buy BOE items from AH??...  

Why should he pass up....  

(by pass up i mean let everyone need it and so roll for it giving the player who needs it a best case 5 man  80% chance of losing that roll and worst case 10-40 man 90% - 97.5% chance to lose)

....on the item he can not currently get on AH, because it is, for example, a rare drop.. or like on ZK atm, a new server.. or any of the other reasons they might otherwise struggle to get said item.

Maybe they cant afford to buy the item on AH.. but i guess if thats the case they could just run 5 mans and need a BOE someone else needs and buy the item you took from them yesterday huh? .. what a lovely community feeling that is.

edit: Please tell me your ingame name if you play on ZK so i know never to group with you.

 

Take an example.. you say that because everyone can sell it then they all deserve the chance to sell it... so then no one can ever need a BOE item, cos when you equip a BOE item you need, your not being lucky getting an item you need.. you're just saving money..... and those poor guys could of sold it on AH and bought an item with that gold.... but its still needing for gold...

Just because a BOP item worth 15g to vendor 'would' be worth 100g if it was BOE does not change the principle of needing the ''gold that can be gained from the item irrespective of where the gold comes from, because it will buy them an upgrade or help to buy an upgrade''

 

IE: BOE item worth 100g drops... I, using your principle, need the item to sell it on AH...but.. im selling it on AH to buy another item from AH that is worth 150g.. so all i did was add to my pile of gold to eventually have enough to buy whatever item it is... thats just needing for gold to add to my pile to eventually buy an item... and is no different to needing BOP items with high vendor price to add to that same pile.. the principle is needing an item to sell that someone needs to use.

 

I could need 3 100g BOE items to eventually buy the BOE item i need... where does it end... what if 3 BiS BOP items will make the amount i need? its the same thing.

 

you are needing for gold.. and there are a million other ways to make gold that dont take items from ppl that may.. for all you know.. not have another way at present to get the item.

 

And even if they did have other ways.... so do you... and needing that drop to convert it into an item you need when someone needs the actual item that drops, is needing for gold.. and so greed.

Edit:  they were lucky an item they need drops... you were not.. but you might be another time....just like if its your turn at the end boss for your BiS item.. gratz!!  not ''oh i can sell that and it will give me enough to buy an item'' .. its gratz... .. and maybe, if youre that desperate for gold you will take items ppl need just to get it... on another run you might get a BOE that no one needs and so all roll greed (or all need if you have trust issues) and gain the gold!

 

There is a huge diofference, its a pitty you dont see it.

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Nosleep

[flowqz 34]

15 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

It's not an exchange of item for gold, it's an exchande of time for gold. In what way do you think its relevant to this discussion?

 

if the paid time results in your getting the item is quite the same.

[Nosleep 4]

41 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

It's not an exchange of item for gold, it's an exchande of time for gold. In what way do you think its relevant to this discussion?

 

gold = time

time = gold

in wow they are exactly the same thing. actually IRL they are the same thing too, but that was obvious i thought.

 

a boost is selling time for gold... 

selling an item on AH is selling time for gold. (time someone spent to get it that otherwise you would of had to spend that time)

selling crafted items on AH or in trade for more than the cost of the mats  is time for gold. (time it would of taken you to gather the mats and find a friend to craft it for free, if you could)

The entire of WoW economy is based on time for gold.

 

items = gold or time.

gold = time or items.

time = gold or items.

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Nosleep