Petition to Restore the Effect of Body Positioning on "Fear"

[Gingervitus 0]

Hello,

I play a level 58 Warlock on the Darrowshire server. I have played since relaunch, this is my first time playing a Warlock in vanilla, and and have had an enjoyable time with it so far. Closer to relaunch, Warlocks had the ability to fear a mob in a guaranteed direction based on where their body was facing. When I discovered this it was a huge boon in instances in which I was the only cc and in solo play, and it made the Warlock class much more fun and tactical. I felt almost vital in instances like Maraudon, where I could banish the elementals and fear the hard-hitting giants in a safe direction, or Scarlet Monastery, in which I could fear and use Succubus' seduction spell in conjunction. This also made solo play a lot less frustrating, and more skill-based because I didn't have to worry about a feared mob pulling 2 or 3 other mobs in a packed area. Since fear has been changed to a much more random spell, the Warlock has become a class that I don't really enjoy playing, and my experience on this server has becomes less fun in general. I don't believe that restoring fear to it's launch state would be a game-breaking change. I am making this petition to request the above mentioned ability be restored to Warlocks, and in the hopes that other people will join in and post as well. This specifically refers to fear and not psychic scream or howl of terror. Several times I refer to the original state of fear on the relaunched server as "directional fear" and the changed version as "random fear." Here are some counter-arguments and my rebuttals to them:

1) It makes Warlocks too desirable for CC - In vanilla every class has certain abilities that can be used for CC: Mages have sheep, Rogues have sap, gouge, kidney shot, Hunters have traps, Paladins have hammer of justice, Druids have Cyclone, Warriors have intimidating shout, hamstring, etc. And Warlocks have fear. All the aforementioned abilities however are controllable (they have a determined up-time and determined effect), whereas the latter is not, making their usage much more skill-based and desirable for instances and raids. None of these abilities have the chance of fucking the whole group over like fear does. Without positioning, fear does not have a determined effect. The mob can run in any direction to any distance, making it very likely that it will pull more mobs. Sap can be resisted but rogues have the "improved sap" talent which makes using it 90% less dangerous (with 3 points). Warlocks have no such talent to make fear less dangerous to use, and it is as vital a part of the play-style as sap. Simply put, restoring fear to being directionally based will give different options for group composition, such as the awesome combo of Shadow Priest/Warlock, as opposed to a group needing another class just for the CC. Mages, Rogues, Shadow Priests, and Hunters are extremely desirable just for their dps, so giving Warlocks this would not take spots away from other classes.

2) It would negatively impact PVP - I've done PVP before and after the change to fear. When fighting 1 player, being able to fear in a guaranteed direction is a minor buff if you need to escape, but realistically if you're in a brawl with multiple players, directional fear doesn't change anything. A good PVP Warlock doesn't have to rely on fear for everything like in instances. It does have a slight effect on world PVP, in that you could face the direction of a mob and fear a player into that mob, but there's plenty of chance of that happening to a player with the more random fear, as in many world PVP situations there are many aggressive mobs around you, not just one.

3) Warlocks already have Succubus' seduction as a CC - This is true, however when seduction breaks or breaks early in an instance pull, the mob immediately attacks the Succubus and the Succubus can die very easily, meaning no more seduction for the whole encounter. This makes it somewhat unreliable, and as we know, it only works on humanoids. Fear has a much more useful range of mob types that it is effective against. Part of the Warlock leveling style at higher levels is to fear the mob continuously and put DoTs on it, as the Voidwalker becomes less useful. Seduction cannot replace fear for this application, which a Warlock might use for level 40-60 or even at lower levels.

4) It's "game breaking" - Fear existed on the relaunched Darrowshire server for almost 3 months without being changed. It did not make me overpowered, I still died. Other players did not have a negative reaction to it, in fact many players liked that I could contribute more to instances and help save the group in a situation that could have resulted in a wipe. It didn't seem to bother anyone in duels or PVP, most people didn't even notice at all unless you mentioned it to them, and then they'd say things like "Cool" or "Warlocks are really killer in this instance", etc. It didn't cause any bugs, it didn't effect how others were playing and it didn't effect the environment.

4) It's not "Blizzlike" - While changing fear to be much more random may be a more "Blizzlike" experience, what exactly is "Blizzlike"? This server is at patch 1.12.1, the last patch of the game, without much of the patched content being released. Significant changes were made to classes leading up to that patch, making some classes more worthwhile/enjoyable and the earlier content easier. Most players are happy that their classes have been patched to their 1.12.1 conditions. Random fear is not an enjoyable experience. Having it be random makes it dangerous in solo play, useless in an instance, and only usable for PVP. Random fear cannot be utilized by a skilled player, directional fear can. In some situations, the mobs are so closely packed that a random fear would certainly result in death, whereas a skilled player could use the directional fear and survive. Since the change I have died a considerable amount more, not based on skill, but just due to the fact that I could not survive the random fear that pulled 2-4 additional mobs. If I were not level 58 already, and trying to level a new Warlock with the random fear, I would re-roll or stop playing the server altogether.

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by Gingervitus

[smokeit 26]

There was too much fucky business going on in PVP when locks could control the fear so it should never go back.

[Horten 9]

I'd be fine with random fear pathing if you could actually interrupt the fear with Curse of Recklessness. Right now applying CoR to a already feared target doesn't do anything.

 

[Gingervitus 0]

Hi Smokeit,

From the small amount of PVP I've done in BGs and world PVP on the other server, I was never in a situation in which I or another Warlock outright killed a player solely from a directional fear. It happened in world PVP where I feared a player into a mob, but it wouldn't have made a difference whether the fear was directional or not, considering that random fear has A) a chance of sending them in that direction anyway B) can make a player or mob run much farther away than with the directional fear (from what I've seen), making it harder for me to damage them, and C) pulling a mob anyway because the random fear sent the person in a random direction in which a mob was located.

I've talked to some of the level 60s in my guild who have been playing for longer than I have and do BGs regularly and none of them had a clear example of when a directional fear caused a problem that wouldn't have happened with a random fear. If you have some actual examples, I'd read them and take them into consideration, or if there's a forum where this has been discussed already and you can point me to that, I'd be happy to read that.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Gingervitus
fixing grammar.

[Healy 7]

Fear was never meant to be controllable, it was always random throughout vanilla. The ability to have a guaranteed direction and control the target's pathing was a huge, non-blizzlike benefit for warlocks. Despite how many times you "still died", it was an unintended benefit and an oversight in the coding. Fear is still usable as a CC, but like how it originally worked, there's a risk of that target running in a direction you really don't want. This project's goal is to emulate original vanilla World of Warcraft, and I play here because of that. Sorry, I disagree with your request to change fear pathing to a controllable state. (but they should definitely fix the disconnect bug)

[Holykrew 5]

Dunno but fear mechanicsis works weird for me here. But I saw even worse when the target was in front of you and it told you the target was behind your back.

A running direction of a feared target is unpredictable.

[Gingervitus 0]

Healy,

I appreciate your comment. One of my arguments is that the server is inherently not "blizzlike", being that we are at patch 1.12.1 without Naxxramas, ZG, AQ, etc. If this were a true "blizzlike" experience, Arathi Basin wouldn't exist yet and Hunters, Druids, Paladins, Priests, Mages, Shamans and Rogues would not have their updated talent trees among other things. The class updates fix some problems that made certain classes more playable and enjoyable towards the end of vanilla. If that doesn't make you not want to play on the server, I don't understand how directional fear does. Like I stated in my original post, I've played with many people since relaunch, none of them said that directional fear made them want to quit, none of them had anything negative to say about it, most of them didn't even notice it until they realized how nice it was to have. Random fear not usable as a CC in instances, more like a last resort; In fact I remember yelling at Warlocks for using fear back in 2005. It's barely usable as a CC in solo play, and it's only useful for PVP. To change it back to being directional it would solely benefit groups doing instances (which has no effect on anyone or anything outside that instance), and leveling/grinding Warlocks. Directional fear is only a minor change, it doesn't change the duration or basic effect of the spell, just the coding. Your only argument is "I will quit if this minor thing that benefits everyone and hurts no one, is implemented," frankly that makes you a minority. If I reacted that way every-time something minor was patched into WoW that I didn't like, I would have quit 30 times.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Gingervitus
grammar.

[kegboy 8]

blizzlike doesnt mean it has to copy every exact motion blizzard did with the game and change the same spell 100 different times. they make the spells how they are suppose to be in the 1.12 client. so fear is like this in all of vanilla i dont see why they would get a special change to allow them more power. i mean i would be down for a custom vanilla server that did custom class changes but on here they will not do that so why would warlock get this but then other classes cant get other new stuff? also why do you ask for special buff for your class and when you get told no you just say they are the ones who will quit over every little thing? i could make a topic asking for crusader strike to be in the game and when everyone says no all i have to do is say what you just said... lol so retarded dude

 

Quote

 If I were not level 58 already, and trying to level a new Warlock with the random fear, I would re-roll or stop playing the server altogether.

Quote

Your only argument is "I will quit if this minor thing that benefits everyone and hurts no one, is implemented," frankly that makes you a minority. If I reacted that way every-time something minor was patched into WoW that I didn't like, I would have quit 30 times.

you are your own worst enemy 

Edited March 20, 2017 by kegboy

[Lorilay 12]

I like the meta-Blizzlike complaints about warlock fear. It's like I'm re-reading the class forums on retail from 2006!

InB4 warlocks=mushrooms memes.

[Gingervitus 0]

Hi Kegboy,

There's no set definition for the word "blizzlike", anyone can interpret it any way they want to. For you, releasing class changes out of sync with the patches doesn't matter. For someone else maybe it does. This is not a custom class change, it was a mistake in coding that ended up being beneficial. I also never said other classes shouldn't have any improvements, I just specified that fear is already a spell that exists in the game, making fear directional does not change the spell description, and it does not negatively effect players or the environment. "i could make a topic asking for crusader strike to be in the game and when everyone says no all i have to do is say what you just said... lol so retarded dude"

Whining about a non-existent spell is something different entirely. It's also only a buff in the sense that it would make instances a more enjoyable experience for everyone with that extra CC, and that it would make the mandatory form of grinding for Warlocks less painful and tedious. Last time I checked we're supposed to enjoy this game, and your opinion is not the same as "everyone" else.

The way you're using those quotes is a logical fallacy. I specified "If I were not 58 already..." meaning I have no intention of quitting the game at this point, then I go onto say "and trying to level a new Warlock...", in which I am suggesting that if I or someone else was just starting to play the game, they might have more frustration and not as much enjoyment with leveling that I did since I had use of directional fear. It's called "speculation."

The second quote is responding to Healy's point in which he said "This project's goal is to emulate original vanilla World of Warcraft, and I play here because of that." which clearly states that he will quit if the server does not fit his definition of original World of Warcraft. That is not speculation.

Those two statements aren't equivalent. Your English is clearly lacking, either it's not your first language (for which case I apologize for making an example of you), or you're stupid. Next time you edit your post try fixing your grammar along with your shitty arguments.

[Hurricane2 2]

Fear is supposed to be random.  They fixed an error and you're complaining about it.  That makes no sense.

[nooobieee 3]

30 minutes ago, Hurricane2 said:

Fear is supposed to be random.  They fixed an error and you're complaining about it.  That makes no sense.

I don't think it reflects vanilla. I don't recall fear pushing a mob so far away that you lose the targeting (for example). There still seems to be favored pathing.

[kegboy 8]

you play pve server and only do dreaminess raids with your guild. ofc this seems like it would be a fair change to have for you

and from my point of view you are the stupid one

Edited March 22, 2017 by kegboy