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[humbug 1]

Make WPVP award more honor per kill than in BGs

[Leigh 0]

10 hours ago, Hurricane2 said:

I've played 100s of bgs on Elysium and can say nothing you say here is even remotely true.  I encounter premades as a pug in about 10% of my games.  More than likely you're getting outplayed consistently and wish to the lay blame any where but on yourself for constantly getting steamrolled.  I encountered far more premades in retail vanilla than I do here.

You are clearly not playing on Elysium, or perhaps (still unlikely) playing Alliance on Elysium, but I can tell you last night I ran about 10 AB bg's all but 1 were premade. Of course, this does depend what time of week you queue, later in the week is usual better. Your argument that people are being 'outplayed' and 'laying blame' is utter rubbish, it's obvious when you are up against a premade.. they are the same set of people you deal with every day.

"played 100's of bg's" rofl.. not a chance if you see 10% as being premade -

Sincerely, Rank 11 UD Warlock with 20,000hk's on Elysium horde

[Aziz 1]

Would it be a possibility to have some sort of dual specc, one you use in BGs and is auto switched to as you enter a BG and the other specc you use in the world. 50g respecc cap for both.

[Jester94 0]

Other than lvl 50-60 horde players in Elysium killing lowies and camping them even though they get no honor from that theres not much to talk about.

 

[Hurricane2 2]

13 hours ago, Leigh said:

You are clearly not playing on Elysium, or perhaps (still unlikely) playing Alliance on Elysium, but I can tell you last night I ran about 10 AB bg's all but 1 were premade. Of course, this does depend what time of week you queue, later in the week is usual better. Your argument that people are being 'outplayed' and 'laying blame' is utter rubbish, it's obvious when you are up against a premade.. they are the same set of people you deal with every day.

"played 100's of bg's" rofl.. not a chance if you see 10% as being premade -

Sincerely, Rank 11 UD Warlock with 20,000hk's on Elysium horde

I play NA hours as alliance and as stated I rarely encounter premades.  I have easily played over 200 bgs in the last 3 weeks as a pug.  I play WSG mainly as AB is significantly less efficient honor wise compared to WSG as a pug and you are less likely to have to suffer through afkrs while your own contribution to the team is more impactful.  I make no "utter rubbish" arguments but am merely relating my experiences on the matter.

There are very few people in world chat lfm for bg premades so I rarely get to join premades and my guild doesn't PvP much.

[reagan 6]

Im not convinced that lowering respec costs (although i think its a good idea) will impact PvP very much...

Do we really think people will queue for BG"s more if they are the right spec, but still being face rolled by premades honor farming?

The way I see it the staff need to do 2 things. Break up the premades and encourage people to come back to pvp who have given up. Does lowering respec costs achieve either of those? maybe it entices people back but i'm not sure id stand behind that in a shitstorm....

 

Disabling group queuing alone will not prevent premades btw - there are several mods that coordinate queuing, so they can disable the option to group queue but the syndicates will still just run the mod and presto 9/10 of you are in the same BG. 

Ending premades needs to be about ending the need to premade, otherwise they will just find workarounds. Unfortunately whether we want to admit it or not the only way to do that is to fundamentally change the rank structure. Either by making it MUCH easier to rank thereby lowering the amount of honor they had to farm, or do as blizzard did and blow it up entirely. 

I know i dont, and i suspect most others dont really care who/how many people get R14 gear, they care about themselves getting it (if they are a premader) or enjoying the game (the rest of us). Can we not just give all the premades R14 gear and then get down to actually playing the game? can we not just change the system so that anyone who really wants the gear, can obtain it without ruining the game for every else? I dont think EVERYONE should get the gear, thats silly, but we need a solution that doesnt involve 50 people farming the rest of us for honor all day, every day forever.

 

[quasexort 4]

The premade issue fixes itself as more content gets released.  On Anathema Premades aren’t an issue.  Revaping the entire PVP system just to fix the issue during the MC/BWL stage of the game seems like it would do more harm than good. 

It’s a bit ironic because I remember one of the main reasons players chose to play on Elysium vs Anathema was because they didn’t want to get destroyed in BGs.  Well on Elysium you’re going to face far more premades than you would on Anathema since there’s less of an incentive to go for rank 14.  The difference between rank 14 gear and what you can get from raiding isn’t that big when BWL has been out for 9+ months and AQ40 just got released.  Once Naxx comes out I doubt many people will be grinding to rank 13/14.

I know it sucks because the same issue occurred during the early nost days but over time as more people reached their ranks and more content got released it became less common to face premades.

[QQsya 4]

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(optional) ＲＥＤＵＣＥ　ＲＥＳＰＥＣ　ＣＯＳＴＳ

The reason brackets are shrinking and PvP is dying is because all but the most dedicated PvPers are completely put off from spending the amount of time required to grind a high rank only to be rewarded with  gear that's barely better than preraid blues. 

If you want to motivate casual PvPers to queue up for the occasional game and farm out r7 or r8 for their 2piece bonus + cheap potions, that is the way to do it.  Many casual pvpers = bigger brackets, less chance for individual players to meet premades, healthy PvP scene. Everything else mentioned ITT will simply fall into place once these two (three) things are done.

 

 

[Slicy 11]

On 23/05/2017 at 2:11 AM, Nelythia said:

Stop thinking like morons that want r14 given out for basically no work at all except queueing, accepting, winning without a fight.

Shitters.

This.

[QQsya 4]

Some people are the farmers, some people are the rice.  That's just the nature of vanilla. 

I understand how it can be frustrating to get stomped by premades all the time, but the solution isn't to disable premading but to get more casual PvPers into the queue.  More puggers in queue = higher chance of pug vs pug, it's simple math.  There were plenty of pug vs pug games on old nost and for the first few months on Anathema, but right now people aren't motivated to pvp(=solo queue) because the rewards are lackluster.  We've spent hours at a time with no one but one alliance premade, our horde premade, and one horde pug in the queue over on Zeth.  If I was in that horde pug I'd be pretty despondent too, but the real solution is to get more people on both sides to pug. 

[Gladius 0]

Blizzard addressed Vanilla issues as they arose.

MMO is a living organism, we may be facing such issues that were not present years ago. Or if they were present, we have a lot of experience as how to solve them.

Elysium world is a living organism too and we should address its problems in a manner that may be completely not Blizzlike, but which makes it more enjoyable for everyone. We cant say "hey, we need to tread the exact same vanilla footsteps" because as mentioned, the players the world consists of are not machines, the game is a living world with live issues that sometimes require addressing in a not Blizzlike fashion.

What is important, this does not make the game not Blizzlike but on the contrary, instead of getting some static zombie vanilla repeat, we get a live vanilla world and a dev team that is willing to feel the game pulse, its needs and solve them. This is what Blizzard would have done and thus its completely Blizzlike to make the small changes that the world needs.

[Gladius 0]

12 hours ago, QQsya said:

If you want to motivate casual PvPers to queue up for the occasional game and farm out r7 or r8 for their 2piece bonus + cheap potions

Casual players don't play to get r7 set pieces, but because they enjoy the game.

6 hours ago, QQsya said:

the solution isn't to disable premading but to get more casual PvPers into the queue.  We've spent hours at a time with no one but one alliance premade, our horde premade, and one horde pug in the queue over on Zeth.  If I was in that horde pug I'd be pretty despondent too, but the real solution is to get more people on both sides to pug. 

Ofc a premader will not want premades disabled but premades are the reason most casual PvPers don't queue at all. Noone enjoys being stomped almost nonstop by a few 24/7 rankers.

[QQsya 4]

Disabling premades is not the solution and, in the most polite way possible, you are kinda dumb and short-sighted if you think so.  It will only kill pvp even more when there's no dedicated OR casual PvPers in the queue.  In a healthy PvP ecosystem, dedicated rankers are the backbone and casuals are the ribs.

>Casual players don't play to get r7 set pieces, but because they enjoy the game.

There were plenty of people, myself included, who played on Anathema/old Nost and PvP "casually" by queueing up for a few games until r7/r8, because the gear was actually worth it and useable in PvE, the normal realm of casuals who only want to play a few hours a week.   Because of that Nost always had highly active BGs (AB and AV actually popping outside the respective weekends, holy shit), pug vs pug games were more common, and all with a population similar to the one on Elysium.  The ones pvping out of pure enjoyment right now are the dedicated PvPers in the premades who don't even care that the rank gear is shit.  If you really wanted to play just for the enjoyment then you'd stop crying and put together your own group to try to beat the premade, since you don't care about honor and play purely for fun you can at least stall out their games and make them sperg out over their honor/hour, even if you drag it out into a 1hr30min game and end up losing 3:2.  I've been both the queue terrorist and the premader who finds that Alliance are suddenly putting in effort and trying to fight back and it's always loads of fun.  These are the type of games I play for.

But you don't want fun, you want to rank without having to put in the effort of assembling a team of dedicated and like minded people, and without having to face enemy teams of such people.   I say this in the nicest way possible, but if you want to solo-hero your way to some of the best gear attainable ingame then maybe Legion is the expack for you, not vanilla.

 

[Superbilly 2]

Lowering respec costs would actually make the server more enjoyable and more fun.

Players would actually start spending their gold more often to respec for BG weekends, raids, farming, or just to try out different builds. Player retention will be much higher also because they will become more invested with their characters.

[karim 138]

PVP system in Classic is stupid. No reason for casual players join BGs because all honor which they can earn will reset in wednesday. So you can see only honor farmers in premade and no randoms. BGs only for people who can farm honor 5+ hour per day. For all another gamer nothing to do on BGs.

We must change it but i already see a lot posts "OMG ITS NOT BLIZZLIKE!!!!!111!!!"

[Gladius 0]

4 hours ago, QQsya said:

Disabling premades is not the solution and, in the most polite way possible, you are kinda dumb and short-sighted if you think so.

You're insulting so many people here that I think you deserve a ban. I won't continue discussion with you if I want to remain calm.

[QQsya 4]

Catering to the opinions of the whining casual masses who want everything handed to them simply for showing up in solo queue is what got us the abomination that is modern retail WoW.  In vanilla, if you want nice things, you have to work for them.  In this case, part of that work is assembling(or at least joining) a group of dedicated and like minded PvPers to farm multiple hours a day over multiple weeks.  In this respect it's no different from PvE, if you want the best stuff, you gotta find a guild full of dedicated and like minded people to raid with.

Vanilla is a game designed to reward playing together as a team.  Playing together in premades is just another part of that.

 

Btw, I know who you are in game.  I don't say this to disparage you but simply to add some context:  you are a rank 10/11 ret paladin and notorious solo pusher who is rapidly approaching the limit of how high you'll be able to rank without a premade.  Of course you'd want to disable premading in that circumstance. 

[Leigh 0]

9 hours ago, QQsya said:

Disabling premades is not the solution and, in the most polite way possible, you are kinda dumb and short-sighted if you think so.  It will only kill pvp even more when there's no dedicated OR casual PvPers in the queue.  In a healthy PvP ecosystem, dedicated rankers are the backbone and casuals are the ribs.

>Casual players don't play to get r7 set pieces, but because they enjoy the game.

There were plenty of people, myself included, who played on Anathema/old Nost and PvP "casually" by queueing up for a few games until r7/r8, because the gear was actually worth it and useable in PvE, the normal realm of casuals who only want to play a few hours a week.   Because of that Nost always had highly active BGs (AB and AV actually popping outside the respective weekends, holy shit), pug vs pug games were more common, and all with a population similar to the one on Elysium.  The ones pvping out of pure enjoyment right now are the dedicated PvPers in the premades who don't even care that the rank gear is shit.  If you really wanted to play just for the enjoyment then you'd stop crying and put together your own group to try to beat the premade, since you don't care about honor and play purely for fun you can at least stall out their games and make them sperg out over their honor/hour, even if you drag it out into a 1hr30min game and end up losing 3:2.  I've been both the queue terrorist and the premader who finds that Alliance are suddenly putting in effort and trying to fight back and it's always loads of fun.  These are the type of games I play for.

But you don't want fun, you want to rank without having to put in the effort of assembling a team of dedicated and like minded people, and without having to face enemy teams of such people.   I say this in the nicest way possible, but if you want to solo-hero your way to some of the best gear attainable ingame then maybe Legion is the expack for you, not vanilla.

 

Wrong, wrong and wrong. These 'dedicated pvp'ers' are only in premades because they provide easy wins and quick honor for the gear you say they don't want. How many rank 13's/14's do you see in bgs pvping? Next to none. Why? Because they have the gear and they're done. They aren't joining premades for the competition, they're doing it because its free easy honor without any challenge, and when they have the easily acquired gear, they stop.

 

And if what you say is true, there should be a seperate queue for those who want to premade and those who want to pug? If these dedicated pvpers do so want that hardcore competition you speak of, that should work fine. My bet is that no one will premade anymore, because they want easy honor, not challenging games that are dragged out and take an hour or more.

[QQsya 4]

I play on Zeth, and out of two people that have reached r14 on Horde, both of them are still active PvPers and join BGs all the time and play for fun.  Imagine that, fun.  Yes, you join a premade to farm honor.  Where do you see that I've said otherwise?  Ranking is the "work" part that I've mentioned over and over throughout my posts. 

>they're doing it because its free easy honor without any challenge

Which is exactly what you are trying to get by disabling premades. It's amazing how blind to your own hypocrisy you guys are.  "People shouldn't be allowed to queue in groups because they get easy wins and good honor, and the easy wins and good honor should go to ME and not THEM." It's laughable.

[Amph 5]

I would consider the bringing the release of updated pvp gear sooner than 1.11. Otherwise, I don't see the need for any major changes.

But if you really want ideas, the non-bg weekend being used as some kind of bonus wpvp weekend with bigger bonuses for world hks and faction leader kills would be nice. Also disable dks.

[Leigh 0]

4 minutes ago, QQsya said:

I play on Zeth, and out of two people that have reached r14 on Horde, both of them are still active PvPers and join BGs all the time and play for fun.  Imagine that, fun.  Yes, you join a premade to farm honor.  Where do you see that I've said otherwise?

I can tell you on Elysium, I see none ever. So you're experience and mine are vastly different.

[QQsya 4]

>But if you really want ideas, the non-bg weekend being used as some kind of bonus wpvp weekend with bigger bonuses for world hks and faction leader kills would be nice. Also disable dks.

I like both of these.  Many currently ranking PvPers I know have expressed that they'd love to go and raid the enemy faction cities but they simply can't take the risk of DKs flushing weeks worth of work down the drain in seconds.

[Leigh 0]

16 minutes ago, QQsya said:

I play on Zeth, and out of two people that have reached r14 on Horde, both of them are still active PvPers and join BGs all the time and play for fun.  Imagine that, fun.  Yes, you join a premade to farm honor.  Where do you see that I've said otherwise?  Ranking is the "work" part that I've mentioned over and over throughout my posts. 

>they're doing it because its free easy honor without any challenge

Which is exactly what you are trying to get by disabling premades. It's amazing how blind to your own hypocrisy you guys are.  "People shouldn't be allowed to queue in groups because they get easy wins and good honor, and the easy wins and good honor should go to ME and not THEM." It's laughable.

>Which is exactly what you are trying to get by disabling premades. It's amazing how blind to your own hypocrisy you guys are.  "People shouldn't be allowed to queue in groups because they get easy wins and good honor, and the easy wins and good honor should go to ME and not THEM." It's laughable.

 

Wtf are you even talking about? How is disabling premades asking for easy wins and good honor. I'm asking for a level playing field, PuG vs PuG > Prem vs Prem. There is no hypocrisy at all? I get good honor anyway. I play in premades (here and back on K2) I still don't like the way it works, it's not a fair playing field whatsoever and it's why many casual players aren't participating imo.

[QQsya 4]

>I'm asking for a level playing field, PuG vs PuG > Prem vs Prem.

Why should you get a level playing field when the fact of the matter is you're simply not willing(or not able, it simply doesn't matter which for this argument) to put in the same amount of time and effort as the guys playing in premades are?  Do you think you just magically get free wins by queueing as a raid?  No, it requires coordination, communication, patience, and effort.  Should people be forced to do raid instances with random strangers instead of their "premade" as well? 

Vanilla is about two things, rewarding team play and rewarding people who put in more time than others.  The people who play premades 9 hours a day are doing both of those and so they are rewarded, the same as people who organize and band together to clear raids.  If you don't like it, go afk in your garrison and wait for epics to fall out of the sky around you.

To use a football metaphor:  it's like getting upset that your rag-tag group of football enthusiast ladm8s will probably never win against AC Milan, so instead of accepting that fact you cry for their entire franchise to be disbanded and for their players to be forced to join you in your rag-tag enthusiast games.

[Leigh 0]

6 minutes ago, QQsya said:

>I'm asking for a level playing field, PuG vs PuG > Prem vs Prem.

Why should you get a level playing field when the fact of the matter is you're simply not willing to put in the same amount of time and effort as the guys playing in premades are?  Do you think you just magically get free wins just from queueing as a raid?  No, it requires coordination, communication, patience, and effort.  Should people be forced to do raid instances with random strangers instead of their "premade" as well? 

>Why should you get a level playing field

 

^ This said it all right here ^ You have to be warped to think there is no issue in a system where it is pitting people with voice-chat, gear, proper group composition against a group of randoms with none of that and calling it fair play. I know exactly what is required, I play in premades like I said, all I'm doing this WSG weekend is running prems. It's still a ridiculous system and I can easily see the frustration people have.

 

I'm not even going to comment on your last scenario because it's an absurd comparison. We are talking about the enjoyment of PvP and how to encourage greater participation. I can assure you PuG's being stomped into graveyard submission is large part of the problem.