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Not sure if anyone else feels the same way, but on anathema there is an issue of players taking advantage of the new black lotus spawn rates in alterac valley.  On many occasions I have seen 5-10 players from both factions camping the spawn locations then akf out after the Lotus is gone.  I realize that blizzard intended AV to be a pve/pvp zone, but this spawn rate change causes some problems in my opinion that should be addressed. 

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This post here might be only in reference to the lvl 60 PVP situation, but in the event that it is not, I have some thoughts about pre-60 PVP.

With the exception of getting an early trinket (medalion), there isn't really much motivation for why one should combine the leveling of a character with playing battlegrounds - that is before the proper rewards for Warsong/Ariati are introduced. Delaying this feature in Elysium/Zeth might also be a factor in reducing the balance in number between twinks and normal levelers in battlegrounds, seeing as only twinks and PVP enthusiasts will ever queue up.

I don't have memory of exactly when E.g. the Ariati belt and boots was added to the original WOW, or when they removed the obstacle that required you to become friendly rep. (or higher?) to even view the rewards from the two lowbie-accessible battlegrounds. (Truth be told I can't even remember this ever being a requirement, but memory fails frequently.)

This requirement should be removed, that much is certain. Struggling in twink land without knowing for sure what your reward will be is something few are willing to do. And you will have to keep at it for some time to even reach friendly (you could probably easily move from lvl 19 to 29 in the same amount of time). 

So in summary you should: Show quartermaster rewards, regardless of rep. and implement missing rewards, and do it quickly.

(If I was the King of Elysium Project (you are a monarky right?) I would even remove the rep. requirement to lowbie PVP items completely, even the rep. requirement on the items themselves. It would make no difference for max level, and it would increase the appeal of pre-60 PVP.
But I know you are about authenticity and probably won't go that far.)

Keep up the good work <3

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9 minutes ago, Forest_ said:

Reduced respec cost.

The only advice I would give to encourage people to PvP is reduce respec cost. I'm a staunch advocate for 100% Blizzlike features but the only thing I would ever bend for would be reduced respec costs to make it super easy for people to switch between raid and PvP at will.

Kronos did this and most people respec'd 5-6 times per week since it was so cheap.

I'm aware you probably will say no to this but since you were looking for suggestions I figured I'd suggest something people probably want.

Bigger deal than you think when your dps can respec midway thru raid every weekend.

 

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so before i go into detail: i am currently a ranking rogue on Alliance-Elysium, which plays about 40-60 hours per week battlegrounds

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What's something that you enjoy about our current PvP scene?

its small and everybody knows everybody from meeting them in BGs. be it playing with them or facing them in pugs/premades.

 

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Something that you dislike?

i like the future change of marks that you cant stack them unlimited and forever anymore. i strongly disklike tho that they will only last 24 hours. that means that every active ranking player who is going for bracketspots has to play on tuseday evening to get marks in case of bracketbreakers to adjust honorcaps.

i would rather see the old system where they last for 72 hours. that means playing on sunday evening is good enough.

 

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What's missing?

pretty much Alterac Valley (for more variety) and reputation gear from warsong/arathi basin. give people more reason to pvp/gear up.

 

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What would you like to see improved?

upgrade current PvP gear. be it the blue r10 or the r13 gear for BWL and weapons for AV patch. i can see it not being upgraded right now, but when BWL hits it should get pushed to its superior version like it was on Anathema when BWL was open there.

 

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Any other thoughts / comments / suggestions?

long story short; marks back to 72 hour duration > get AV going > upgrade PvP set gear for BWL

 

thanks for taking the time to improve the PvP environment

grettings Pjedrolino, the mighty gnome rogue

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What's something that you enjoy about our current PvP scene?

It is actually very close to the blizzard experience as I remember it. Frustrations and all.

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Something that you dislike?

The abundance of non-English speaking players (mostly Chinese). I can't count the number of BG's that have been ruined by people who don't speak English and therefore are impossible to communicate with. This is especially bad when there are a bunch of them in the same BG, so all you see in bg chat is lines of blank space. They also tend to go AFK a lot, especially while solo defending flags, often leading to losses. People do report them but I see the same repeat offenders every week, and nothing ever seems to improve.

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What's missing?

AV aside, world PvP seems to be extremely unbalanced in favour of Horde, and I suspect this is because alliance queues are instant whereas Horde honor grinders have a good 20-60 minutes to between queues. So this leaves us with a scenario where all the top horde PvPers are out in the world ganking questers and people running to instances, usually unopposed save for the odd MC raid. I'm not sure what a good solution to this problem would be. Maybe an artificial wait time for alliance queues based on horde queue times, but that wouldn't be blizzlike.

Also, rep gear. I assume this will be coming in the AV patch though.

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What would you like to see improved?

I'd like to see the ability to queue for multiple battlegrounds at once, which was allowed back in vanilla. During the first 4-5 days of every week, alliance premades are running non-stop, so as horde you typically wait in AB queue for x minutes (because WSG queues are unbearable), get stomped, collect your token and repeat. You might get a pug here and there, but it's barely worth trying unless you're a hardcore grinder and it's your only option. Being able to multi-queue would be a partial solution to this problem, encouraging people to play more than just AB. I know it would also make win trading easier, but that's a lesser evil as far as I'm concerned.

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12 minutes ago, Forest_ said:

Reduced respec cost.

The only advice I would give to encourage people to PvP is reduce respec cost. I'm a staunch advocate for 100% Blizzlike features but the only thing I would ever bend for would be reduced respec costs to make it super easy for people to switch between raid and PvP at will.

Kronos did this and most people respec'd 5-6 times per week since it was so cheap.

I'm aware you probably will say no to this but since you were looking for suggestions I figured I'd suggest something people probably want.

+1

Lowering respec cost would encourage more BGs and world PVP

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16 minutes ago, Forest_ said:

Reduced respec cost.

The only advice I would give to encourage people to PvP is reduce respec cost. I'm a staunch advocate for 100% Blizzlike features but the only thing I would ever bend for would be reduced respec costs to make it super easy for people to switch between raid and PvP at will.

Kronos did this and most people respec'd 5-6 times per week since it was so cheap.

I'm aware you probably will say no to this but since you were looking for suggestions I figured I'd suggest something people probably want.

+1

The current respec cap forces 95% of the players base to choose between PVE and PVP.  If this is intended then don't be surprised when the PVP scene is lacking.  People who primarly play here to raid content aren't going to dish out 100g weekly/biweekly to PVP.  Kronos costs were probably too low (5g?).  Maybe make it 20-25g cap.  There should still be a cost so that it doesn't feel "free" to respec, but the cost should be low enough so that respec'ing at the gold cap is still a thing most people can viably do.

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Reduced respec cost: 50g cap is unbelievably restrictive, it segregates a large amount of population into pve/pvp specs only.

Release the AV 1.4/1.5 Patch beginning of June instead of end of month for Elysium. 

Possibly re-enable multi-BG queue so we dont have to just wait for that 24 minute WSG queue to pop.

 

 

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Please reconsider bumping up pvp gear update(r10gear) on elysium, updating gear at AQ patch is farrr too late. Either update it after BWL patch like on nostaltius or mayby even ZG patch.

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I queued for BGs casually in retail vanilla.  Until the BC pre-patch, when raiding more or less died down, I was never in a pre-made group.  And I very rarely saw pre-made groups.  One difference between retail and here is that you've got a lot more players shooting for R14.  When I was playing retail, it was considered far too heavy of a grind for most people to even consider.

Why is this relevant?  Because with the number of pre-mades, there's no room for casual PvP.  Everyone is obsessed with maximizing honor/hour, which means that casual players are discouraged from queueing.  This is a problem that feeds itself exponentially - the less casual PvPers, the less incentive there is for casual PvPers to queue.  I don't bother at all except for AV on AV weekend, and that's only because I've reached the point where I need to have a Don Julio's for TPS.  And for those of you who want to rank, less people PvPing means longer queue times for you.

So two suggestions: one, set queue maximums to 5-man groups and two, when you leave a BG, have it send you back to wherever you entered it from, instead of from the warmaster (or emissary) you queued from.  This would do two things.  By gimping pre-mades a bit, you increase incentive for casuals to queue and by porting people back to the place they were before they entered the BG, you allow people to do things other than just BG.  If I could PvP while farming, I'd probably PvP more.  I'm sure I can always find someone in IF to queue me for a BG while I'm out in Azshara hunting arcane crystals or farming DME on my mage.  It'd be a nice break from the monotony.

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Really what we need for AV is to not have to wait for faction balance and to get a game going if even 1 person queues up for it.  There's a TON of incentives to go into an empty AV, and there are tons of incentives to finish it or just farm a little bit of rep for a while.

In addition, don't shut down an AV when there are 0 people in it, so people can't abuse it to respawn herbs.  Just let anyone join and leave as they choose, and when a game finishes, a new one can be queued into.  Beyond that, if the first AV is full on both sides then you can open up a second AV as normal.

I can't count the number of times I've queued for AV and just sat in queue endlessly because there's no one else queueing at the same time.  I know I can't solo the place to victory, but let me farm some rams or something.  People knowing that AV is always open (at least 1 instance of it) no matter how many people are in it would be an incentive for people to queue any time of day and get in there.  A guild could queue up, go in and smash it, and get a new one started too.  The drawback that I can foresee with this is that it can affect AV morale, and one faction will queue and win a lot while the other will not bother trying to win.  Ironically, there is great incentive to lose an AV too, so you will still see a decent number of people from an underdog faction queueing up.

I don't think this translates to other BG's very well because unbalanced games can really affect morale of a faction, and an empty AB or WSG is not fun or challenging at all.  However, AV is a unique beast, and it really sucks that there are never any games to play without queueing up on AV weekend... and sitting in a queue for an hour because of faction imbalance.

 

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Please, unite the realms.
I stopped playing because there are only 2.5k people playing in Anathema and I want to see more people playing and raising level!
After several months has lowered the population of the server, I think it's time to join Anathema with Elysium, put them in the same timeline and play all!
With more people in a kingdom much better than two with few people!

I'm sorry for my English, I'm Spanish :)

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Editing this into my prior post in this thread as well, but for anyone who is just keeping up on the new posts, here we go:

 

I'm a rank 13 NE hunter on Zeth'Kur. I finished ranking 5 weeks ago, stopping before my goal of 14 because it would have taken at least 7 more weeks to hit 14, in order for the 2 people ahead of me to clear the system and open up the lone BR1 bracket slot. I started managing the entire faction's bracket system around the end of February, and still do. I also helped the horde with their bracket system for several months. I say this to indicate that I speak on behalf of the vast majority of PvPers on our server, not just my personal view.

As of this week, there have only ever been 25 people on ZK alliance who have made it to rank 11 or higher; 3 of them made it to their goal, 5 are still ranking, and 17 stopped short of their goal, almost exclusively because of our bracket sizes. We have only had 1 rank 14 on each faction, and are only likely to have 1 more on each faction prior to xfers. By comparison, there appear to be 24 alliance and 9 horde on Elysium who have hit rank 14.

Elysium's pvp population (and consequently, their brackets) are 13x the size of Zeth'kurs, in spite of their server population only being about 6x ours. And for the vast majority of the server's history, our population was relatively higher - perhaps 3-5x smaller, not 6-7x, which makes that difference in PvP population and high ranked players even more staggering.

Also, there hasn't been a single non-60 BG in months.

To sum up what I've said so far - Elysium has ~6x ZK's population, but ~13x its PvP participation, and 17x its Rank 14s.

PvP on Zeth'Kur is dead. There are significant periods of time where there's not even a single BG up. Our top 4 brackets combined amount to 12 slots this week, if we're not unlucky. Without counting those who have already quit recently, there are 15 remaining rankers at rank 10+. That means it is literally impossible for several of them to rank up, even if no one of lower ranks gets a higher standing than any of them.

Basically, for those on ZK who still want to rank, they have to spend ~80 hours a week at rank 10, for some of them to gain 0% progress, for 6 weeks, all so that they can rank on Elysium after the xfers. For our lone BR1 last week, it was closer to 120 hours. And in a couple more weeks, we are likely to not even have a single BR1 slot. That means someone at rank 13 will have to spend several weeks farming for ~100 hours a week, for br2 points, just to not decay back to rank 12 prior to xfers.

Given all that, it's not surprising that approximately 70% of the top 20 highest rankers on Alliance are considering quitting the grind. Even with xfers coming, which are supposed to be only 5 weeks and 1 day away at the most, it's hundreds of hours just to try to tread water waiting for xfers. That's insanity. To make sure that is properly emphasized: of the top 20 people who have been grinding for 3-4 months, approximately 75% of them are seriously considering quitting by Wednesday of THIS WEEK. Not simply because they can't spend the time, or it's too hard, or it's not fun, but because progress is unreasonable/unrealistic.

 

To address the immediate isssues with ZK, something needs to be done. Not waiting for xfers, not in a month from now, but as soon as humanly possible. Below are some solutions for the current ZK situation, and some others for just general PvP improvements. Regardless of whether you follow these ideas or not, something needs to be done ASAP.

Suggestions that could ease the current problems on ZK, while still benefiting other servers going forward:

Allow players to freeze their current rank, so they don't have to grind out insane honor just to prevent decay, while waiting for xfers (this would also be beneficial for people going out of town). Add an immediate decay cost to it if necessary, so that it isn't abusable/used needlessly, but having the option would be massive.

Drop the 15 HK requirement to be counted the PvP population. Drop it to some token number like 1-3.

Allow players from levels 10-59 to queue for BGs from anywhere in the world, so that they actually queue up and get games regularly.

Permanently set minimum bracket sizes. To even have to worry about dropping to 0 BR1 slots is unacceptable. It should not be possible to start PvPing with 4-6 bracket 1 slots, and have to give up before finishing after 4 months of constant high standing grinding, simply because there are 0 BR1 slots left (this is the actual situation some people are going to be facing on ZK).

Consider lowering the weekly rank decay (and lower the points awarded each week as well). This would encourage far more people to PvP regularly, as a single week of little-to-no PvP wouldn't undo several weeks of effort. If balanced properly for a lower amount of decay, it should take the same amount of time to "fast-track" your way to rank 13-14, but it should be much easier to chip away at that progress over a longer stretch of time.

General suggestions:

Upgrade the PvP gear sooner. Release the PvP rep gear sooner.

Consider adding periods of time where premading is limited to 5 people, or disabled entirely, so that interested players can freely play as pug vs pug at least occasionally.

Have a GM dedicated to rapid response regarding PvP issues. When catching someone in the act is the only answer 90% of the time, having tickets take hours or even days doesn't work. If you need to catch them in the act to sanction players, you have to be available to witness the acts as they are occurring.

Consider add a world PvP "BG weekend" to the rotation. WSG, AB, AV, and then world PvP  - where kills or certain zones give bonus honor. Or make that the case during the week, when no BG weekend is active.

Change respeccing - Add dual spec, a PvP only spec, reduce respec costs, or offer a second respec option that charges BG marks instead of gold (since they will only have a 24 hour duration now), so people can PvP more freely (or PvP and then go to PvE), without being an awful spec. It shouldn't take 100g to casually queue a couple BGs in the proper spec.

 

This is not a comprehensive list of issues or solutions. Just what I could throw together off the top of my head. But please, do something. Many things. Make PvP fun, rewarding, and realistic. It should not be possible to spend anywhere close to 100 hours a week for 3 months grinding, and then hit an impassable wall due to people quitting the game or not queuing up. It makes no sense to do the same amount of PvP, get the same honor, putting in the same hours, and get decreasing progress, because a group of lvl 60s are raidlogging instead of getting 15 kills - there is no rational reason to have high end PvP progress linked to general player activity.

 

What's something that you enjoy about our current PvP scene?

Fighting premades as premades.

Fighting pugs as pugs.

Fast queue times.

The periods of time where the PvP rewards at good.

 

Something that you dislike?

Having people screwed out of ranking, 3-4+ months into the grind, by circumstances entirely beyond a their control.

Long queues.

Roaming gank squads of PvPers desperate for honor with no chance of fighting back.

Having no reason for pugs to try in a game, or bother to queue up at all, when they're facing premades.

Going out of town for a few days, or having RL take priority briefly, ruining any chance of ranking at the high end.

Cheaters going unpunished.

The nonexistence of low level PvP. I fight (and usually kill) every horde I see on alts, as do others who are leveling, and still cannot possibly get enough kills to even be in the PvP population until at or near lvl 60.

Tiny pvp brackets.

PvP gear being outclassed by PvE gear for the majority of patches.

100g+ in respec each week if you want to do more than just PvP or just PvE.

Watching most of my friends and co-rankers quit PvPing or the game entirely because *other* people quitting means they can't rank up.

 

What would you like to see improved?

Literally everything on the above list of issues.

 

Thank you for the opportunity to post our concerns, and hopefully have some changes implemented to improve the pvp situation for all going forward.

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1 hour ago, Forest_ said:

Reduced respec cost.

The only advice I would give to encourage people to PvP is reduce respec cost. I'm a staunch advocate for 100% Blizzlike features but the only thing I would ever bend for would be reduced respec costs to make it super easy for people to switch between raid and PvP at will.

Kronos did this and most people respec'd 5-6 times per week since it was so cheap.

I'm aware you probably will say no to this but since you were looking for suggestions I figured I'd suggest something people probably want.

+1

Played on Kronos as well, the low respec cost allowed me to play (and enjoy) bg's and world PvP as a proper PvP spec.

I think the 5g they had was probably too cheap, but 100g to spec PvP and back just makes me not respec and not pvp.

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Fiers stop spamming the thread with your 24,000 word essay dude jesus christ lmao

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The honor bonuses for playing in BGs destroy world PvP and discourage casual PvPers. Winning a single game in AB nets more honor than solo killing 10 level 60s in open world. That is bonkers, at least in terms of accomplishment/reward, and forces anyone interested in ranking to play in BGs exclusively as the way to rank. It also forces people into premades that crush pugs and amass truly huge honor numbers, both of which discourage casual PvPers and drive down the PvP participation. 

Two simple changes that would improve the PvP scene:  1. Queue in groups of 5 max. 2. Much, much lower bonuses for BG wins, so that world PvP is a viable way to rank up. 

Regarding the second point (lowering BG bonuses), you would also be helping the world PvP scene on Elysium. As it stands, all the alliance PvPers are in BGs 100% of the time. The Horde PvPers who are in queue are out in Lvl50+ zones, ganking in groups. This is definitely discouraging alliance players to finish the leveling grind to 60, and generally makes the open world a strange, Horde dominated place. Making open world PvP relevant would be a huge improvement, and reducing BG bonuses would go a long way in that direction. 

Alterac Valley is lame. Yet another drain on world PvP... 

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ban everyone using honor "caps" and a "bracket system" (inc crying) and essentially having an organized pvp mafia like they do in un goro, make it so its a competition for standing like it was originally in retail wow, that would be a start, then ban people who are in a bg 24 hours a day who only log off for 30 sec and log back (account switching)

 

also some TOU edits could work to better describe what u consider "win trading" lmao

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14 minutes ago, Liem said:

ban everyone using honor "caps" and a "bracket system" (inc crying) and essentially having an organized pvp mafia like they do in un goro, make it so its a competition for standing like it was originally in retail wow

There most certainly were organized ranking groups in vanilla retail with honor caps etc.

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Please stop suggesting they update the PvP gear. They specifically advertised the server as having prebuff PvP gear and you started ranking knowing this. Many people, myself included, rolled a character here specifically becauase the PvP gear wasn't buffed. Many players, myself included, enjoy not having overpowered AQ40 level items in the game when MC is the highest tier of raiding content.

I expect the staff to adhere to this, similarily how they adhered to not changing Nostalrius' gear progression and subsequently nerfing the PvP gear people had already farmed on Anathema. They stuck with the original plan when they adopted the server, out of necesseity of not screwing over the population. I seriously hope we can expect the same thing here, stick to the original plan and do not upgrade the PvP gear.

It's also honestly a little dishonest hearing about this PvP gear upgrade from people who are already finished ranking and are only standing to get a free gear upgrade out of this deal at this point. This has nothing to do with revitalizing (world) PvP, this is a blatant excuse to cheese better items out of the team with a thinly veiled excuse.

The most important factor to the health and the (world) PvP scene right now is making the world alive again: Release patches faster, we don't need months of farming the same content, we've done it before. Release AV at the start of June or even earlier and follow it up with rapid patches to keep the content fresh. Make people have a reason to login, make people have a reason to leave the city. The PvP will come naturally by itself with that.

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Just go out and PvP. I don't understand what the problem is lol.  Either you like to PvP or you don't.  Most people on these servers don't.  Most people are entitled cry babies who only care about getting easy purples, which come through PvE.  Those who PvP are enjoying it still or again are entitled babies wanting their Rank 11-14 easily.

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BRING BACK queue both AB+WSG at same time AND change to the other if Queue POP

 

u listened to casuals (nostalrius did) that cried about premades blablabla guess what casuals are already casuals but hardcore ppl stopped playing because of that shit so there u go nobody plays

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There was never meant to be a delineation between PvP and PvE in vanilla wow. You raided to get gear to go into battlegrounds and stomp face. The reason why people drooled over T2 was because it was amazing compared to anything else available. The reason why people feared T2.5 and the small amount of T3 u saw was because you knew those players would deal huge damage. You were part of a single community some of the time you PvE’ed sometimes PvP – this artificial separation into people who PvP 60 hours a week and those who PvE is what’s causing players to burn out/get bored and quit.

Enjoy about the current PvP scene? Honestly, nothing. It’s a grind that does not include actually playing the game. Its 100% about grinding out ridiculous amounts of honor and controlling BRM1 in often what skirts standover/extortion and degenerates into win trading/account sharing and insane expectations on the number of hours to obtain R14. A very high % of people either never achieve the rank they desired, or quit the game once they do.

Whats wrong with PvP? In a nut shell, nobody has any fun while doing battlegrounds. You simply can’t queue up and actually PvP, its either be in a premade and stomp empty BG’s or solo queue into a bg where you get stomped and everyone else afk’s.  Blizzard introduced battlegrounds not as a way to obtain gear, but as a second pillar to end game activity.  Towards the end of Vanilla, around the time of the first blizcon, blizzard themselves realized rank’s were a bad idea, it was creating very negative behavior (similar but to a far less extreme than we see) and did away with them. That was when most of the serious rankers earned 300K honor a week – were dealing with 3-5 Million. What we see on our servers is not blizz like, it never was – the moment players even started acting 1/5 as bad as what we see blizzard blew up the ranking system and started again.

Fundamentally the issue is around the competition for rank, the number of people who want to obtain R14 far exceeds the number who can. It creates an insane level of competition that goes far beyond anything blizzard saw, or had in mind when they created the system. The number of hours required to hit R14, and the behavior you need to engage in to do it is neither healthy for the player nor for the server in general.

What would I like to see? Some way for the vast majority of the player population to be able to queue for a BG and actually get to participate in PvP. Pug vs Pug only battle grounds. Make it easier for people to get R14 – not “easy”, Easier. It shouldn’t take someone being part of a syndicate that exerts control over the entire PvP scene to reach their goals. It shouldn’t take 13+ weeks of pvping 60 hours a week to earn R14.

1) Remove the ability to Group Queue

2) Remove the ability to see other players honor (or even potentially your own)

3) Make it easier to achieve R14 - bigger Brackets, less honor required for each rank. (see 4 though for preferred solution)

4) Blow up ranks - move to the late vanilla system of purchase items through honor/battle ground marks - still vanilla like for the haters, this is how blizz fixed this issue.

5) Remove the R12+ gear entirely. PvP was never supposed to be the way to earn best in slot gear, pvp gear was an afterthought until TBC. (gonna get flamed hard i know - but im throwing out anything i can think of that might encourage people to actually pvp, not rank, actually fight and enjoy the game)

 

TL:DR – if we do not provide a way for the 99% of the population who want to actually PvP to PvP they will quit and the server will wither away and die. People don’t want to raid log, they want to play the character they have spent time gearing out – but currently there is no possible way to pvp and enjoy it.

Do not under and circumstances upgrade the PvP gear earlier – it will simply make the problem worse.

Do enact the fix to rank gear that was posted on Github this week (You need the rank to buy the gear) this is how it was in Vanilla, this is how it should be here.

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2 minutes ago, Cephei said:

The most important factor to the health and the (world) PvP scene right now is making the world alive again: Release patches faster, we don't need months of farming the same content, we've done it before. Release AV at the start of June or even earlier and follow it up with rapid patches to keep the content fresh. Make people have a reason to login, make people have a reason to leave the city. The PvP will come naturally by itself with that.

Why would the addition of more instances improve world PvP? This makes no sense. There would be more world PvP if there were more incentives for world PvP. 

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I'm a huge fan of Reagans post, but I also want to bring up respec costs. I played on kronos on a warrior while nost was shutdown and due to the cheap respec costs I actually did a couple of bgs every week because it was painless to go MS, and then respec back to my pve spec. On Anathema there's no way im going to spend 100g a week to pvp casually, and walking into a bg in pve fury build is incredibly frustrating so I've not done a single BG. I can 150% guarantee if you drop the respec cost significantly that pvp participation will go up, but I'm not sure how comfortable you guys are with that since it will also have pve implications and isn't blizzlike

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