Jump to content
Shedur

Upgraded Blue PvP Set on Elysium

Recommended Posts

43 minutes ago, Swiftdeus said:

I wanted to touch on a few points that I don't believe have been brought up that are important.

1. ZG - > AQ Timeline - 6 Months and BWL - > AQ 8 Months.

We are 7 weeks into BWL at this point and I have seen in my guild a decline in activity. I have seen a few people starting alts, but overall a decrease in online time. I think that because the time from ZG to AQ will be such a content drought, updating the PvP gear will help the community by giving new goals to people.

2. Seeing the Premade changes on Anathema is bringing some light to underlying issues about PvP. Without any incentive, I believe only the truly dedicated PvPers are constantly playing. I can see the average playing being turned off by getting crushed over and over by premades, but I do not think disbanding premades is the solution. Giving gear incentives will increase the overall BG population, this will lower the chance for Pugs to face premades which is what the developers want without destroying the PvP community. (Case Study Nostralus Premade Breaker Change -- Reverted after 2 Weeks)

3. Economy Boost! - Overall the trades economy will benefit from the PvP Gear Upgrades, New gear to enchant, more consumables sold, more herbs picked. Anyone who has been in a serious premade knows that consumables gives you an edge in battlegrounds, this change would even help players who are not interested in PvPing by filling their pockets!

completely agree with this, also it will make more people want to rank.. and more classes, when the gear is actually supposed to be upgraded nobody wants to rank because they can get better with just raidlogging, and guess what, for a lot of classes u can do that right now too.. see; lack of shamans

and why would u want PvE gear being better for PvP than PvP gear? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given how unblizzlike the development team has been with other pvp changes (hello 3 man premade cap), it's galling how stubbornly blizzlike they are being with the release of the updated pvp gear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with adding the pvp update earlier than AQ and a few of the arguments are false imo:

If people are not pvping now for "fun" i doubt people will start pvping for "gear" - and if they do it won't be sustainable as they will stop once they are geared. Also a change like this won't bring people back to the server - the fact is that people stop playing after BWL and then  ZG because it's the tipping point between casual raiding to serious raiding ect.

Updating pvp gear early does create a gear imbalance both in pvp and pve. Right now the complaints are that PvE gear is comparable to dungeon blues - is this really an issue? It's more of a balanced gear level than someone in dungeon blues trying to fight someone in their updated pvp set. It also works the other way in PvE - you can theory craft what you want in terms of what is better but it's a fact that top tier warriors like Monkeynews were using updated pvp gear in raids like BWL and used it to push the meters. Early raids are already trivial enough without this new gear level. It may only be for certain classes but the PvP gear is better.

 

Look at this at 30 seconds and count pvp gear: 

 

 

The argument that they have already made none blizzlike changes so they can do another is idiotic. They have taken steps to preserve the Blizzlike "feel" and compensate for information that was not as widely known/ abused in the past such as the lasher farm. These are for better of for worse but were done to improve the general running of the server. This request is different, imo it is a gear grab for people who want a short term reward. It is the same as people asking for T1 to be updated early and you could use the exact same arguments.

 

The funny thing is I remember this exact argument in reverse that PvPers had Naxx level gear (because it was updated in Naxx) so early in progression and this is why they have chosen not to do it on Ely.

You all seem to argue that they did it on Nost so they can do it here but forgot the fact they learnt from this mistake. It is not an unkown change when they have no idea what will happen - it has been done on Nost and they used that experience to say they will update it with AQ. 

Edited by Silverlan
Addd Monkeynews link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This change needs to happen. Elysium please. At the very least people who rank/ranked to 10 should be able to buy or get the new set update in due time, when it's patch appropriate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Silverlan,
First off, thank you for putting in effort into your reply, it was refreshing to read something that actually had effort put into it. I would just like to debate some of your points.

 

"If people are not pvping now for "fun" i doubt people will start pvping for "gear" - and if they do it won't be sustainable"

I would disagree with you on this point. I think gear is a great motivator for any Min/Maxer. It took me about 6 Weeks to go from Rank 4 to Rank 10, is that sustainable? I'm not sure, that would depend on the number of people joining the server and leave it. I do believe that overall more people would enter BGs over the 8-month or 6-month content drought if they actually were rewarded. I personally think incentivising PvP will bring in more player into BGs, people who have never touched a BG before because there are no rewards. Rewards may even be enough to increase the skill cap of the average player because they have put in so many more hours instead of raid logging.

 

"this won't bring people back to the server"

I think you may be largely correct on this one, but I'd like to address the fact that upgrading the gear will not make people leave the server. From the mindset of "What can we do to make people stay" I personally don't think that more content makes people leave faster, if anything, people will stay longer.

 

"Updating pvp gear early does create a gear imbalance both in pvp and pve."

A gear comparison can be seen here for reference: 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/edit

Most of the gear you are generally referring to is on par with what has already been released with a few upgrades and downgrades. The point you really wanted to make:

 

" top tier warriors like Monkeynews were using updated pvp gear in raids like BWL and used it to push the meters"

What you are referring to here is already in the game. HWL/GM weapons are above BWL teir for rogues and warriors. Overall on the gear comment though, and it has been expressed multiple times, is that people who PvP put in way more hours then PvEers, I think it is only fair they get something comparable at the end. If the gear isn't updated before AQ, then it will NEVER be comparable. 

 

"The argument that they have already made none blizzlike changes so they can do another is idiotic."

"Blizzlike" is bullshit. No private server has the ability to provide this, nor would one want to. I played Vanilla and there are a bunch of quality of life changes made on Elysium that benefit the server, although not being "Blizzlike". It cannot be obtained, every private server can at best revert server side code, but the client will always be 1.12.1. Out of all things balanced, the PVP gear was implemented near the end of the expansion, it is aligned with the talents and ability coefficients. There are items out there that are completely broken, Bone Reavers Edge, Thunderfury, because they had gone through revision near the end of the expansion and are currently in an earlier patch. There is so much to put in the section of "Blizzlike", but I will get to my point. Quality of life changes for the server are good, I think this quality of life change would only benefit the server.

 

"imo it is a gear grab for people who want a short term reward."

From a gear grab perspective, there are only a handful of people that would have their gear upgraded. These people may already have upgraded HWL/GM Weapons. Their upgraded gear for the most part would be side grades. The new blue gear has a different item ID, which means ex rankers would have to rank again. The vendor gear from Arathi Basin that will be released with ZG will be of greater value in most cases. What we are really trying to push here is increase PvP activity so they developers don't make an even more "Un-Blizzlike" changes, like destroying Premade groups.

 

"You all seem to argue that they did it on Nost so they can do it here but forgot the fact they learnt from this mistake."

I never played on Nost, but from the research I have done on this topic I have read of Ex-Nost Developers saying Small Group Battlegrounds is a horrible idea and was quickly reverted (it was tested on Nost). I have also read the the pvp gear upgrade was well received. What I havn't read were any reviews from Nost Devs that upgrading gear early hurt the project, it only appears to have benefited it.

 

Looking forward to your reply :)

Edited by Swiftdeus
Formatting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People that say people would pvp for gear are also saying people will stop pvping when they've achieved said gear.

Now what's the point of pvp gear if you're not gonna pvp with it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Justme,

Hey Justme, thank you for your question. From my experience people whom I have played with (obviously this doesn't pertain to everyone), that have completed ranking, are pretty hardcore vanilla PvP fans . We absolutely invite them to continue playing with our premades when spots are available and they generally are excited to join us; they just dont play the stupid hours like they used to. There are the people who PvP regardless of gear rewards as well, me included, you won't see them raiding in their PvP sets because most of the gear is bad and only a select few pieces are even worth wearing.

 

 "Now what's the point of pvp gear if you're not gonna pvp with it?"

People will absolutely PvP in their PvP gear if the gear is worth wearing. Currently the most blue pvp sets/pieces are not even on par with dungeon blues, the people who wear the blue sets don't really have an avenue to get raid/dungeon gear because if they did they would be wearing tier(or maybe they don't like the dungeon grind). I think that upgrading the blue set would absolutely make it seen around battlegrounds more, even though it can be worse than tier gear because the PvP Sets generally have higher stamina. Anyone who goes to R12+ will go back in BGs guaranteed, even if the gear is horrible. You wont see them wearing it it always (at the moment its kind of like transmog for a lot of classes)... but one does not just PvP ONLY for the gear... you have to love this if you're going to make it and Rankers will never completely leave.

Edited by Swiftdeus
Spelling/Formatting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/20/2017 at 9:30 AM, Silverlan said:

I disagree with adding the pvp update earlier than AQ and a few of the arguments are false imo:

If people are not pvping now for "fun" i doubt people will start pvping for "gear" - and if they do it won't be sustainable as they will stop once they are geared. Also a change like this won't bring people back to the server - the fact is that people stop playing after BWL and then  ZG because it's the tipping point between casual raiding to serious raiding ect.

Updating pvp gear early does create a gear imbalance both in pvp and pve. Right now the complaints are that PvE gear is comparable to dungeon blues - is this really an issue? It's more of a balanced gear level than someone in dungeon blues trying to fight someone in their updated pvp set. It also works the other way in PvE - you can theory craft what you want in terms of what is better but it's a fact that top tier warriors like Monkeynews were using updated pvp gear in raids like BWL and used it to push the meters. Early raids are already trivial enough without this new gear level. It may only be for certain classes but the PvP gear is better.

 

Look at this at 30 seconds and count pvp gear: 

 

 

The argument that they have already made none blizzlike changes so they can do another is idiotic. They have taken steps to preserve the Blizzlike "feel" and compensate for information that was not as widely known/ abused in the past such as the lasher farm. These are for better of for worse but were done to improve the general running of the server. This request is different, imo it is a gear grab for people who want a short term reward. It is the same as people asking for T1 to be updated early and you could use the exact same arguments.

 

The funny thing is I remember this exact argument in reverse that PvPers had Naxx level gear (because it was updated in Naxx) so early in progression and this is why they have chosen not to do it on Ely.

You all seem to argue that they did it on Nost so they can do it here but forgot the fact they learnt from this mistake. It is not an unkown change when they have no idea what will happen - it has been done on Nost and they used that experience to say they will update it with AQ. 

Your point is not valid: the best DPS increase give weapons, which are already at full potential. The PvP gear for now is sub-par even to t1, while it should be sub-par to t2. In this case keeping the pvp gear nerfed is completely retarded: the 5 pieces of t1 can be acquired in 1-2 MC runs, while the r13 set is farmed for hundreds of hours.

But the most fun moment is that non-PvP-ers shouldn't take part in the vote at all. You guys didn't no-life grind that trash (this is the state of epic PvP set ATM)  for months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 21.9.2017 at 9:06 AM, Justme said:

People that say people would pvp for gear are also saying people will stop pvping when they've achieved said gear.

Now what's the point of pvp gear if you're not gonna pvp with it?

It depends on what kind of PvPer you are speaking of. On Nostalrius the 2part set boni meant that alot of PvEers went the extra mile to improve their raidgear by rank 8/10 farm. Therefore they went into BGs for couple weeks, acquired said gear and rarely engaged in PvP again. But all the same people came to the project and left it, just the natural life cycle. Now for BGs it meant that you had a constant influx of PvE players which kept PvP alive and strong. The upgraded blue PvP gear was a really good idea.

On 21.9.2017 at 4:38 PM, Swiftdeus said:

Currently the most blue pvp sets/pieces are not even on par with dungeon blues, the people who wear the blue sets don't really have an avenue to get raid/dungeon gear because if they did they would be wearing tier(or maybe they don't like the dungeon grind). I think that upgrading the blue set would absolutely make it seen around battlegrounds more, even though it can be worse than tier gear because the PvP Sets generally have higher stamina. Anyone who goes to R12+ will go back in BGs guaranteed, even if the gear is horrible. You wont see them wearing it it always (at the moment its kind of like transmog for a lot of classes)... but one does not just PvP ONLY for the gear... you have to love this if you're going to make it and Rankers will never completely leave.

 

Best example would be the raider and PvPer Withthewrist rank 14 warrior:
http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=Ely&player=Withthewrist

He already only wears 4 epic PvP gear items, once he can get hold of Chromatic Boots, its only half of the epic gear anymore. It's really kinda sad to see such iconic shoulders like PvP shoulders replaced by first boss of BWL gear...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you need to make this change otherwise people will not pvp , it's already hard to get people to join premades and its a big problem , we need more pvp its a big part of the server fix this now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Dantheman said:

you need to make this change otherwise people will not pvp , it's already hard to get people to join premades and its a big problem , we need more pvp its a big part of the server fix this now

There is only 1 active EU-based premade and 2 Chinese premades on alliance side ATM. Back in my days there were like 7 no-life grinding premades and like 3-4 semi-pugs. Why? Because none wants to PvP without having decent rewards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why farm for 2hrs in raid and farm a few consumeables, for gear thats better than pvp. And griind 60 hrs a Week + for rank 10 for 2 months for gear thats almost the same.

 

Increase th rewards, more pvp on elysium

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Dantheman said:

you need to make this change otherwise people will not pvp , it's already hard to get people to join premades and its a big problem , we need more pvp its a big part of the server fix this now

Why is this a problem? If nobody pvps then nobody likes to pvp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah my Poll with nearly 85% in favor of out of over 250+ votes, and had over 4000 views in 3 days was locked after Whitekidney said it wasn't going to happen. PvP will be basically dead before AQ comes out at this rate. No reason to PvP outside of weapons, and nearly 99% cant play that much, GG elysium. Hopefully you'll open your eyes before it's too late.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering their plans to remove the capability of grouping with your friends in bgs it is obvious they are not interested in increasing PvP activity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×