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fixpvp

PvP faction imbalanced caused by premades is killing the server

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Hi,

For all that play PvP on this server at 60, it is not news that the BGs are dominated by alliance premades, many of which are using full epic pvp gear.

Although this was allowed on real vanilla back in the day, the frequency at which you encounter premades on horde side is something like 60%+ of games, far higher than on original retail. As a player starting the server late without gear or experience on your character, this is incrediblbly frustrating and offputting when trying to grind honor in WSG, and will ultimately cause people who joined the server with the intention to PvP to move elsewhere *cough* kronos 3 *cough*.

In my opinion it is in the servers best interest to foster a competitive and interactive PvP experience, with the same PvP feel as live. In its current state (60%+ 5 minute stomps getting farmed at GY), new players will not continue to participate in PvP and this aspect of the server will die. A simple solution would be to impement a premade vs premade only queue system. Teams of 5 should only meet teams of 5, teams of 10 only meet teams of 10 etc. Although late, this change would force premades to disband and queue solo when no horde premades were active, creating a fairer playing field for all.

If this change is not possible, I would at least like some recognition that over farming as a premade is a real issue on the server. I know for a fact it is causing people to leave. Shouldnt the goal be to create a PvP environment with a similar feel to real vanilla and to be enjoyable as possible for all, rather than to satisfy the honor addiction of a select few?

TLDR - do something about premades farming 24/7 before PvP population on horde dies

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Sad to say it but no. If your faction cannot keep up or gain the interest to grind as well there is no reason for the programming team to get involved. People can move to Kronos and then copy+paste their issues here over there. Why dont you find that % of your faction that is geared and make premade parties? If you cannot cooperate then is it really for the horde?

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Personally, I like the idea of a premade v premade queue system. However Mario also brings up a great point that the administration of the server isn't the problem here - it's the players not choosing to dedicate and organize themselves. I'll bring it up with the team and we'll go from there.

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Mario you missing the point, I got nothing against them organising as a premade and playing the game, but it manifests as a problem due to the low total population of players engaging at PvP on 60 in relation to the amount of time they play. On retail there were more premades than on this  server, but also more active players engaging in PvP. This resulted in a lower frequency of games vs premades when queueing solo. Your response fails to take into account players joining the game later than release or playing PvP for fun. Instead of continuing to play in a fairly balanced pug v pug games, contributing to standing and boosting the population, they stop playing BGs or the server altogether. It is a lose/ lose.

If you think that 'shooting fish in a barrel' 1 sided matche should make up the majority of active BGs in a game which already lacks any kind of matchmaking rating is acceptable then I guess you care more about grinding than competetive gameplay. Maybe you should try farmville?

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Hard to digest that you expect a private server to maintain the activity retail had when it was fresh and then compare that to today. You seem to have removed the process of grinding gear from the competition to overcome the BG with a victory, perhaps you should try My Little Pony games where you can worry less about your combined efforts and only have you to blame?

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Once again Mario, you seem to have missed the point and have then proceeded to straw man my previous statement. I never said I expect the population to compare to retail, I was simply explaining why a lower population is exacerbating the problem. Grinding gear becomes significantly harder when 60-80% of WSG games result in zero honor gain. The most effective way to gain from there is to make an alliance alt and use /who to queue dodge active alliance premades, a strategy I believe should not need to be employed. You seem very defensive about this subject, perhaps you are one of the alliance engaging in the said premades? I can understand why you don't want to have a premade vs premade system if that is the case, it may become significantly harder to reach honor cap every week without a guarenteed gear/ comp/ communication advantage when you lack the required skill as an individual.

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I would just like to point out that it is not a faction related problem. To be more specific, alliance has the same problem. Regardless of the faction you're playing with the matchmaking system we currently have in place, whenever you solo queue you will most likely end up in a pug group with the premade on the other side.

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Sorry to say I am not. You can go around the world and gank players to grind honor as well. I am still just a 51 priest running around getting slammed by the horde. I had to give up holy with a touch of disc for shadow because it was not enough and will return to a heal spec but based on disc instead for Bgs later. You can find Savrah and take out your lack of team effort out on my character. You did mention premade relations with retail and I dont see how you can forget so fast. There was more activity and more frequent BGs which in your own words - reduced the problem. Again, this isnt retail. This isnt then. Forget retail memories and welcome to now; a classic take on wow without the classic population activity.

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I don't blame people from running pre-mades and farming their honor in WSG... However, right now I am limited in play time and don't have the ability to join pre-mades to fight back. I am currently about 0-12 in WSG, with our team having capped a grand total of 0 flags, and only 1 game in which it wasn't basically a graveyard camp. Having received 0 reputation and almost no honor over this time, I won't be playing WSG again unless changes are made. I don't know what the solution is, but I don't feel that the current system reflects "PVP" in an enjoyable way.

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Don’t worry we’re getting stomped alliance side as pugs also, I’m like 10-60 pugging. The fact is if you want a decent amount of honor you need to premade up and beat said premades.

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agree with fixpvp , premates killed the WSG  for alliance too. If you are not in premate you can not farm any honor. in 1 of 6-7 games if you are lucky you will get a non premate mach  ( when you have a fair chance of winning) in rest only premate maches.

When WSG started ( before premates get allowed ) maches where more fun and more ballanced ( winning rate wos somewhere 55-45%)

I thing removing the premates will keep the pvp ballanced and more ppl interest for it

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Agreed that not being in a premade can result in a guaranteed loss. It is possible to group up with a friend or two and farm alliance in a questing zone instead. It may not deliver the adrenaline you want but it will help you rank up if you trample enough.

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What is the point of bring another arguments if u agee that non premate is in 90% guarnateed loss.

To promote for higher ranks we need players to make pvp, . No players no pvp. Maeby for some ppl that farm 350k-500k honor / week is fun abd looks ok, but @  some point they will get stuck too. And to be onest standings are the same before and after premate ( tot 50 are the same pkayes - top 10 for sure) , that means ppl that stay non stop in premate wont be affected.

But they affect the game for the rest , and kill server pvp day by day

 

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Well then it would be a real shame if some of them hit R14 tomorrow and immediately get banned for gold buying.

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I hate to say it but although I did agree I never brought up another argument. I made a slight suggestion. Gold/item buyers exist in both factions and the same sentiments run from both sides of the coin. The staff bans players and accounts that sell them but it takes time as well as realizing that some of these players you accuse actually have deep pockets or friends they group with that help exchange items from farming. In vanilla I had a group of friends that would all farm specific ingredients and would disperse them evenly so we would all be ready for the weekend's grind. You dont need to rely on just gold you can have friends as well.

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On 3/24/2018 at 8:14 PM, jaret06 said:

I don't blame people from running pre-mades and farming their honor in WSG... However, right now I am limited in play time and don't have the ability to join pre-mades to fight back. I am currently about 0-12 in WSG, with our team having capped a grand total of 0 flags, and only 1 game in which it wasn't basically a graveyard camp. Having received 0 reputation and almost no honor over this time, I won't be playing WSG again unless changes are made. I don't know what the solution is, but I don't feel that the current system reflects "PVP" in an enjoyable way.

I have empathy for you and fixpvp's complaints - it's not easy some times.  Nevertheless, I don't know of any optimal balance that exists for regular gamers vs. casual gamers.  In Vanilla WoW it was a hardcore regular gamer-based system.  Current retail WoW is completely a casual gamer system - people go on just for a few minutes to check a few things and then log off (kind of like facebook or your email).  The fact is, if you want to get the rewards in Vanilla WoW you HAVE to put in the time.  If you don't want to put in the time, or maybe don't have the ability to put in the time because of real life restrictions, perhaps this isn't the game for you.  But don't tell everyone else that they have to change the game to fit your lifestyle.  Everyone should know by now that changing the game to make it "easier" or more "noob-friendly" is NOT the way to go.  Unfortunately that's just the way it is: not every game is able to be played optimally by every person.  Games like Clash of Clans or current retail WoW can be played casually with high reward.  Games like Vanilla WoW, H1Z1 Just Survive, or Diablo 2 cannot be played casually with high reward - you either invest many many hours or you don't get s***.  The level of reward is directly proportional to time invested.  That's life...

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Disband premates and buying gold will be useless or at last it wont worth. Ex: he get flag in his base, but withot premate yours can rich your base too, so you have the chance to take it back and poit. So spaming potion it wont worth ( he will not end game in 5 min anymore)

Dont say thet they dont deserve that standing , since the play alot they rly work for it. But before premates they play the same amout of time and have the same standing. So premates dont affect theyrs chances to get r14, just ruing the game for the rest, and step by step the server will go down .

 

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4 hours ago, IceKnight366 said:

I have empathy for you and fixpvp's complaints - it's not easy some times.  Nevertheless, I don't know of any optimal balance that exists for regular gamers vs. casual gamers.  In Vanilla WoW it was a hardcore regular gamer-based system.  Current retail WoW is completely a casual gamer system - people go on just for a few minutes to check a few things and then log off (kind of like facebook or your email).  The fact is, if you want to get the rewards in Vanilla WoW you HAVE to put in the time.  If you don't want to put in the time, or maybe don't have the ability to put in the time because of real life restrictions, perhaps this isn't the game for you.  But don't tell everyone else that they have to change the game to fit your lifestyle.  Everyone should know by now that changing the game to make it "easier" or more "noob-friendly" is NOT the way to go.  Unfortunately that's just the way it is: not every game is able to be played optimally by every person.  Games like Clash of Clans or current retail WoW can be played casually with high reward.  Games like Vanilla WoW, H1Z1 Just Survive, or Diablo 2 cannot be played casually with high reward - you either invest many many hours or you don't get s***.  The level of reward is directly proportional to time invested.  That's life...

no one deny this. since AV and WSG get online i use honorspy. And as i told you before the standings are the same before premates and after  ( for 1-30 @ last ) and is normal to be like that becouse those ppl used alot of time for it. you need to understand hows game works. Promote in ranks are based on the amount of ppl that  take honor in that week, that means that a person who give pvp alot of time need also other ppl to play. without those casual ppl harcore farmers  will get stuck too. So to have pvp need to keep game atractive for casuals too. You have like 3 big hardcore premates in aly side , and ike the same on horde side, horde side dodge aly premates (allways you will see just 1 horde player who enter and the rest join "if is ok") that means you have only casuals vs premates matches

if a casual player have 1 hour to spend ( before or after raid dont matter when) he can spend it in pvp ( and then is a win-win   - hardcore pvp farmers need casual in order to have progress) and dont worry noone will get r14 playnd 1 -2 hour /day pvp. 

So yes if you wish to farm honor you need to have care of casuals too

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@Notvanillawow

If you have any solid proof that they are buying gold, feel free to send it to me via pm, we will look into it and act accordingly.

If you do not, please stop calling them out, or any other players for that matter. You've opened multiple threads regarding this "issue" and now you brought that here without providing any proof. Forums are not here to name and shame, especially if you can not really back your story up. Just because they are buying this or that does not necessarily mean they've been buying gold. Simple as that. :)

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blizz-like arguments wont work here since its not blizzard. its a private server and it should be adapted for its neccesities.

first of all u dont have the population that a blizz server had in vanilla, u barelly have 50% of it. second, asuming that on blizz there was still low population(altho u had like 5k), they fixed this problem with x-realms, so u had 30k+ players, and tones of wsg's. also there was a system that allowed premades vs premades, and non premade vs non premades.

its a fact, non premades player are getting sick of being farmed in graveyard, u have litteraly 0 chance of getting reputation or decent honor if u're not part of a premade. i think with the k3 release, dev's should find a way to satisfy also the casual players.

disbanding premades would be the right decision, but u can also implement premade vs premade, this way both sides should be happy.

 

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7 hours ago, IceKnight366 said:

I have empathy for you and fixpvp's complaints - it's not easy some times.  Nevertheless, I don't know of any optimal balance that exists for regular gamers vs. casual gamers.  In Vanilla WoW it was a hardcore regular gamer-based system.  Current retail WoW is completely a casual gamer system - people go on just for a few minutes to check a few things and then log off (kind of like facebook or your email).  The fact is, if you want to get the rewards in Vanilla WoW you HAVE to put in the time.  If you don't want to put in the time, or maybe don't have the ability to put in the time because of real life restrictions, perhaps this isn't the game for you.  But don't tell everyone else that they have to change the game to fit your lifestyle.  Everyone should know by now that changing the game to make it "easier" or more "noob-friendly" is NOT the way to go.  Unfortunately that's just the way it is: not every game is able to be played optimally by every person.  Games like Clash of Clans or current retail WoW can be played casually with high reward.  Games like Vanilla WoW, H1Z1 Just Survive, or Diablo 2 cannot be played casually with high reward - you either invest many many hours or you don't get s***.  The level of reward is directly proportional to time invested.  That's life...

 

 

only one question, how many h do i have to spend to get exalted with Silverwing if my win rates are 0 coz i allways play vs a premade? or if i get a flag in 10 games?

Edited by kretzoo

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40 minutes ago, kretzoo said:

only one question, how many h do i have to spend to get exalted with Silverwing if my win rates are 0 coz i allways play vs a premade? or if i get a flag in 10 games?

Ill try to answer yor 

Les say 1 game take 15 ( waying for q and game duration) so u need 150 min for 20 rep= 2,5 hour per 20 rep

From neutral to exalted you need 42000 rep 

42000 / 20 * 2,5 = 2102.5 

You need 2102 hours , GL m8 

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5 minutes ago, terro said:

Ill try to answer yor 

Les say 1 game take 15 ( waying for q and game duration) so u need 150 min for 20 rep= 2,5 hour per 20 rep

From neutral to exalted you need 42000 rep 

42000 / 20 * 2,5 = 2102.5 

You need 2102 hours , GL m8 

wrong mate!, im human, im getting 22 rep/flag :))

42000/22*2,5=4772,72 hours to get exalted with WSG. or 192 days of playing 24/24

Edited by kretzoo

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