Hunter vs Feral PVP skill ceiling

[Oakenlix 79]

Hello, beutiful people of the internet!

 

If you're lazy, my main two questions are in short:

 

1. Is hunter just easy to play in PvP (aka low skill ceiling) or is it easy to learn, hard to master (aka high skill ceiling)?

2. Is feral druid still at a serious disadvantage in PvP even if played well or is it just as good as any other spec if played correctly?

 

 

So, almost never played vanilla, but I'm seriously hyped about this server, and as I love both nature and world pvp I mainly decide between choosing feral druid or survival hunter. Obviously not going to ask just what should I choose, but...

The thing is, I've got the impression (and I'd be happy to be wrong) that hunter's job in PvP is basically "CC - Aimed shot - Multi shot" loop with occasional viper sting thrown at casters. By the way, an offtopic question - does viper sting actually fill you with drained mana or just burn your target's? Anyway, I worry, if hunter's pvp skill ceiling is low, it might become tedious and ultimately not that much fun. Is there more to master for a hunter after you've got the basics? Or do you just learn the rotation and basically spam it? The former is what I hope for, but I need your experienced advice.

 

As for feral druid, my second favorite class, I really like the versatility in combat, self healing and so on, and it seems to have more options, but I'm worried if it's too underpowered to be truly competitive with other classes even if I master it. Is that the case? Or can you become just as powerful as other "good" classes if you really know what you're doing?

 

Anyway, that's what I'd really like to know, I would very much appreciate your advices, cheers.

[Mandoss 4]

Hunter skill ceiling is EXTREMELY high when you factor in engineering.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCN6OClqDNY

 

Video is extremely RPish in some points, but its filled with tons of examples of what a hunter can be capable of with the right gear/skill and engineering tricks.

 

There are even more tricks and items in the game that can give added benefits that arent even shown in this video (such as an item that puts a dot on you that you can use to pre-empt crowd controls).

[Xadaver 0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIprcu4SNcA

 

This is how druids pvp'd in vanilla, extensive use of stance-switching, diverse talent points, consumables, and green whelp armour, which was subsequently nerfed to the ground.

 

Druids are trash in vanilla unfortunately, they can outlast some classes but will almost always be at a disadvantage vs most classes once the druid's defensive cooldowns are done.

 

Obviously they're still unrivalled flagrunners.

 

Hunter imo has a very high skillcap/ceiling but a low floor, the cc a good hunter can put on the field is ridiculous. In vanilla viper sting is a no cooldown mana burn, super annoying to deal with. Broken tooth crushes casters and the range of tools available to hunters is sickening.

 

Druids are much more sought after in raid settings though if that influences your decision.

[Ironsides 35]

Hunter skill ceiling is EXTREMELY high when you factor in engineering.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCN6OClqDNY

 

Video is extremely RPish in some points, but its filled with tons of examples of what a hunter can be capable of with the right gear/skill and engineering tricks.

 

There are even more tricks and items in the game that can give added benefits that arent even shown in this video (such as an item that puts a dot on you that you can use to pre-empt crowd controls).

 

msk played on a server where CC's didn't have heartbeat resist. not even representative of what hunters will actually do on here

[Mandoss 4]

doesnt mean it isnt possible, and even with heartbeat resists the gameplan still doesnt change that much, it just becomes more hectic and unreliable. Its still all the right moves to do

[Ironsides 35]

doesnt mean it isnt possible, and even with heartbeat resists the gameplan still doesnt change that much, it just becomes more hectic and unreliable. Its still all the right moves to do

 

uh, it changes 100%. feenix had 30 second sleeper dust CC's, frost traps worked for full durations, rocket helm worked for full durations. he frequently has time to eat/drink from 10%>80%+ hp/mana when he has 5-6k base hp.

 

all those sweet reflector shots that win fights vs mages because they nuke themselves for 80% hp wouldn't work on here since reflectors should only work before the cast finishes.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Ironsides

[ravens 0]

The reason everyone thinks druids are trash in vanilla is because they never itemize properly. They wear spell damage/healing/int gear and than complain. Feral druids must have 27%+ crit to do anything. Once you do you can literally kill people in seconds. Here's a video of a druid with good crit but it still is low

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PPJpmq2zsY

 

The reason crit is so important is obviously when you crit you do more damage but Blood Frenzy gives you an extra combo point from shred or ravage which we need to used ferocious bite. Without good crit you will only get 2 combo points from a ravage and shred and your auto attacks will also do a lot less damage. With good crit you will get 3-4+ combo points in an opener and than have a good chance for ferocious bite to crit. The other thing is that people spec 0/30/21 or some hybrid spec, but you NEED omen of clarity and leader of the pack. 11/31/5 + 4 extra points. The last mistake people make is the opener, they try to pounce but you're not a rogue so you only get 1 combo point and no follow up stun-lock; always open with ravage even on plate. 

 

Getting the gear is also very easy just get shadow craft and crit gear like eye of rend unstoppable force etc. In blue gear and AV epics you will be itemized very well unlike other classes. 

[tunguska 0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIprcu4SNcA

 

This is how druids pvp'd in vanilla, extensive use of stance-switching, diverse talent points, consumables, and green whelp armour, which was subsequently nerfed to the ground.

 

Druids are trash in vanilla unfortunately, they can outlast some classes but will almost always be at a disadvantage vs most classes once the druid's defensive cooldowns are done.

 

Obviously they're still unrivalled flagrunners.

 

Hunter imo has a very high skillcap/ceiling but a low floor, the cc a good hunter can put on the field is ridiculous. In vanilla viper sting is a no cooldown mana burn, super annoying to deal with. Broken tooth crushes casters and the range of tools available to hunters is sickening.

 

Druids are much more sought after in raid settings though if that influences your decision.

 

While that video is 100% true of druids pre 1.8 patch, it's not accurate for this server.  After 1.8 (or was it 1.9?) Druids got some awesome buffs and much better itemization, making off specs much more powerful (especially in pvp).  I'd say that a feral druid is very powerful when the right gear is farmed and the druid is played by a true master that knows how to counter every class using the druids wide skillset.

 

On 1.12 with good gear i'd say feral is a very fun playstyle with a high skill ceiling.

 

such as:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY3Q5B85A1o&list=PL63EBFE3BA34F91E7&index=4&t=1s

Edited December 15, 2016 by tunguska

[iolwtf 1]

1. Is hunter just easy to play in PvP (aka low skill ceiling) or is it easy to learn, hard to master (aka high skill ceiling)?

2. Is feral druid still at a serious disadvantage in PvP even if played well or is it just as good as any other spec if played correctly?

 

1) Hunters have pretty low skill cap in vanilla due to the lack of proper interrupt and unreliable CC. Sure it is fun to play and you can do some 1vX but the amount of things you can do in different situations is very limited when compared to a mage for example. I tried to make a hunter pvp video once but I feel that it is more of an engineering video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKf8w7DDIMc

2) Unfortunately Feral is not a viable spec in vanilla for any serious PvP. 

Longer post I made about Skill Cap in Vanilla.

Edited December 15, 2016 by iolwtf

[Oakenlix 79]

Thanks for the input guys, really appreciate it, and the videos you linked are pretty amazing too!

[Zappa 7]

Hunter skill ceiling is EXTREMELY high when you factor in engineering.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCN6OClqDNY

 

Video is extremely RPish in some points, but its filled with tons of examples of what a hunter can be capable of with the right gear/skill and engineering tricks.

 

There are even more tricks and items in the game that can give added benefits that arent even shown in this video (such as an item that puts a dot on you that you can use to pre-empt crowd controls).

 

This guy really does a great job. Definitely a very good player.

 

I was not able to watch more than 5mins because of him constantly jumping around.

 

It drives me crazy when players constantly jump, especially nightelves with their saltos.

 

And the music made me sick but that´s not the point. That´s just subjective.

 

If you want to watch amazing druid skills, watch Finalflash´s videos on Youtube.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Zappa

[Insa 7]

Hunter in vanilla is very different then now on retail and much more challenging to learn. Get ready to have your deadzone abused all the time. You have no self healing so you'll have to rely on trap+bandage and FD+eating for sustain. You'll need to learn timing on your weapons since you cant shoot while moving. Id rate hunter mid tier in terms of skill cap and PvP performance.

 

If you want to learn from skilled hunter, watch Chereeke/Cherez (starts at 9:50): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhCI3DDvGGU

He was widely considered as the best hunter in the world pre Cata

Edited December 15, 2016 by Insa

[Av_vA 3044]

Playing hunter requares a good timing, coz it's all about kiting, poisition and tactics. You can't just nuke some1 or something also you will suffer alot by using ingame objects like walls coz all your ranged skill requared you standing(even autoshot) 0.5 sec+delay so target must be in LoS all that time. For example mage got some good instant casts or locks/priests got DoTs to solve that problems and use covers as advantages.

[Oakenlix 79]

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted, a class that is challenging but not handicapped. Gonna play hunter happily then.

 

Might still level a druid at some point in the future too, though. 

[iolwtf 1]

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted, a class that is challenging but not handicapped. Gonna play hunter happily then.

... but hunter is handicapped 

[Oakenlix 79]

... but hunter is handicapped 

You may call it that, if you mean it's not the ultimate-best-super-pvp class, but I'm quite content with how they can perform, based on what I've seen so far. And I wouldn't want to play it if it was the best class of all either, so it's all good.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Oakenlix

[stif 1]

 

hey ! when can i hope to see next flashback

[Morathe 5]

uh, it changes 100%. feenix had 30 second sleeper dust CC's, frost traps worked for full durations, rocket helm worked for full durations. he frequently has time to eat/drink from 10%>80%+ hp/mana when he has 5-6k base hp.

 

all those sweet reflector shots that win fights vs mages because they nuke themselves for 80% hp wouldn't work on here since reflectors should only work before the cast finishes.

 

You're wrong with reflectors here. I remember on vanilla I was able to reflect mortal coils that were already mid-flight if I popped shadow reflector. Or it was possible to reflect those pom pyros.

[Ironsides 35]

You're wrong with reflectors here. I remember on vanilla I was able to reflect mortal coils that were already mid-flight if I popped shadow reflector. Or it was possible to reflect those pom pyros.

https://forum.elysium-project.org/index.php?showtopic=20004&p=219104

 

Feel free to go find evidence proving the contrary. Not saying your memory is bad, but after enough years of playing rando private servers where everything changes all the time it might be different from what you remember.

[Mot 0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klm2Q7xu_d4

 

Best druid pvp

[Morathe 5]

Prove it so we can get it changed.

 

Sure let me hop into my backyard time machine, jump 10 years back and record it for ya;p brb. Its nearly impossible to find original videos showing usage of those, I mean there are lot on warcraftmovies but most of those are flagged as archived and u need premium acc to see them.

 

I refer to my memory which i'm 90% certain of, most of people saying it shouldn't work like that in 1.12.1 say it was nerfed at some point so I'm asking them for patch notes proof but none seem to find any so theres that. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Morathe

[Muhsogyny 2]

You may call it that, if you mean it's not the ultimate-best-super-pvp class, but I'm quite content with how they can perform, based on what I've seen so far. And I wouldn't want to play it if it was the best class of all either, so it's all good.

Depends mostly on which faction you play. Holy paladins are brick-wall hard counters to hunters. Your viper sting is useless, wing clip is useless, and you will do no damage to them. Shaman can at least dispel viper sting like paladins but most, especially enhancement shaman, do not do this because they tunnel vision dps and do not know how to support other players. Ret paladins seem to be much better at this in general.

 

But again, a geared holy paladin will be literally impossible for you to kill and extremely difficult for you to cc even if they are by themselves. You will go oom trying to kill them before their mana dips below even 90%, their blessing of freedom has 80% uptime when specced properly and they can bubble out of your trap if they feel that they need to. That is if they don't have a priest or another paladin around to cleanse them which they probably will in group pvp. So in most situations you can do literally nothing against them.

Point being, if you want to play a hunter for pvp, do not roll horde. I am saying this from experience having a very geared hunter. Having blessing of wisdom as alliance will also be a very nice benefit to you.

[Oakenlix 79]

Depends mostly on which faction you play.

Thank you, thats a good thing to consider, luckily I was going to roll Alliance anyway, because I'm in love with shadowmeld.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Oakenlix

[Ironsides 35]

Depends mostly on which faction you play. Holy paladins are brick-wall hard counters to hunters. Your viper sting is useless, wing clip is useless, and you will do no damage to them. Shaman can at least dispel viper sting like paladins but most, especially enhancement shaman, do not do this because they tunnel vision dps and do not know how to support other players. Ret paladins seem to be much better at this in general.

 

But again, a geared holy paladin will be literally impossible for you to kill and extremely difficult for you to cc even if they are by themselves. You will go oom trying to kill them before their mana dips below even 90%, their blessing of freedom has 80% uptime when specced properly and they can bubble out of your trap if they feel that they need to. That is if they don't have a priest or another paladin around to cleanse them which they probably will in group pvp. So in most situations you can do literally nothing against them.

Point being, if you want to play a hunter for pvp, do not roll horde. I am saying this from experience having a very geared hunter. Having blessing of wisdom as alliance will also be a very nice benefit to you.

 

Just get a scorpion pet to protect your viper.

[Fubbzy 0]

Just get a scorpion pet to protect your viper.

 

yea was just gonna say, very underrated pet. on feenix i recall scorpion poison stacking up to 5 or something like that. the only real threat at that point is full t3 pala with the set bonus but itll still oom them really nicely. maybe you are kinda boned if it is a dwarf though such nice racial