Fresh Server Pvp-Set

[prsina 17]

38 minutes ago, Celitel said:

Well if you dont like it, then you should not play on elysium pvp, go play on the other nost funserver where the pvp gear from naxx is already out...., and only people with those magic op items can have fun in world pvp and can piss off on other people, who dont have time to no life it everyday and will make people who is doing pve look like shiit in world pvp etc

2/10 mongoloide troll attempt

[Bourbonpie 13]

6 hours ago, void_echo said:

As long as we're campaigning for non-Blizzlike changes, how about buffing the R12/13 gear to be on par with Naxx gear.

You realize there will be no point for anyone besides Rogues & Warriors to Rank past 10/11 if they keep it this way right? Blizzard completely dropped the ball on this back in the day and Nostalrius realized that keeping this the way it was would effectively ruin serious PvP for that part of the servers community. So many people will not roll on this server if this ends up being the case. 

 

1 hour ago, Celitel said:

Well if you dont like it, then you should not play on elysium pvp, go play on the other nost funserver where the pvp gear from naxx is already out...., and only people with those magic op items can have fun in world pvp and can piss off on other people, who dont have time to no life it everyday and will make people who is doing pve look like shiit in world pvp etc

I hope you're trolling but if not, even the upgraded PvP gear is still upgraded by BWL for PvE purposes except for a few pieces. Also, the difference between the upgraded gear and using MC/BWL gear for PvP is not as big as you're making it out to be. Yes it's stronger for PvP but you invested more time into that area of the game, and there's always room for outplay, it isn't game-breaking by any means.

[Celitel 0]

all the pve items wil be like how they was in each patch, so why should the pvp gear not be too?? and if they are going to upgrade pvp gear how it was in naxx when bwl/zg come out, it wont only have impact in pvp, it will also have a very big impact in pve since most items have better stats than items from aq40.  so those people who are going to grind for high rank on launch will have no need to do raid instance until naxx since most of thier pvp gear is bis in pve too

 

Edited January 1, 2017 by Celitel

[Taurior 2]

I agree that the PVP gear update at naxx is not ideal since it's replaced by AQ gear by that time, the best time for the release would be where PVP gear will still be better in PVP, but not dominate in PVE. probably at ZG release or maybe pre-AQ, not sure, don't know all the pvp gear of every class.

In my opinion, if you want to be rewarded for PVPing go play a rogue or warrior and get R14, you will get better weps than AQ while starting your progression in BWL. if you don't think that's a reward, idk what is. the fact is, retail vanilla was like that, I really dislike the fact that people are running around with AQ/Naxx equivalent weapons, but that's just how it was. If you're changing the PVP gear update date, I also want the PVP wep update later, to better balance that out.

Changing the date of the pvp gear update will affect the vanilla experience, and not positively. If you want to have the updated gear early, you can also just play on the nost PVP server which is scripted exactly the same, but just is not fresh, or even Kronos.

[Bourbonpie 13]

11 minutes ago, Celitel said:

all the pve items wil be like how they was in each patch, so why should the pvp gear not be too?? and if they are going to upgrade pvp gear how it was in naxx when bwl/zg come out, it wont only have impact in pvp, it will also have a very big impact in pve since most items have better stats than items from aq40.  so those people who are going to grind for high rank on launch will have no need to do raid instance until naxx since most of thier pvp gear is bis in pve too

 

I'm not going to bother responding to you anymore because A. you have no idea what you're talking about and B. you clearly didn't read my post. The majority of the upgraded PvP Gear is still replaced for PvE in BWL, only a few pieces are still used at that point in PvE.

[Bourbonpie 13]

7 minutes ago, Taurior said:

I agree that the PVP gear update at naxx is not ideal since it's replaced by AQ gear by that time, the best time for the release would be where PVP gear will still be better in PVP, but not dominate in PVE. probably at ZG release or maybe pre-AQ, not sure, don't know all the pvp gear of every class.

In my opinion, if you want to be rewarded for PVPing go play a rogue or warrior and get R14, you will get better weps than AQ while starting your progression in BWL. if you don't think that's a reward, idk what is. the fact is, retail vanilla was like that, I really dislike the fact that people are running around with AQ/Naxx equivalent weapons, but that's just how it was. If you're changing the PVP gear update date, I also want the PVP wep update later, to better balance that out.

Changing the date of the pvp gear update will affect the vanilla experience, and not positively. If you want to have the updated gear early, you can also just play on the nost PVP server which is scripted exactly the same, but just is not fresh, or even Kronos.

I don't understand how it wouldn't affect the server positively. This gear isn't really used in PvE in BWL, nevermind AQ & Naxx, except for a few select pieces that i've mentioned such as R12 Hunter Gloves which are BiS forever in Vanilla. BWL or ZG Patch is the ideal spot to upgrade the gear as it will be on par with other current gear available.

[Larsen 3]

People are vastly downplaying the usefulness of the pre-upgrade PvP sets. They're not worthless garbage, the weapons just aren't grotesquely overpowered like they were on NostPvP. The original PvP gear is still very solid and very much usable, the weapons just aren't BiS all the way to Naxx. The only concern with waiting for 1.11 isn't that the gear is useless, it's that it's a very long time on a fresh server where everyone already knows everything and most people don't feel sure the server will even last that long.

Stop being hysterical.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Larsen

[Bourbonpie 13]

8 minutes ago, Larsen said:

People are vastly downplaying the usefulness of the pre-upgrade PvP sets. They're not worthless garbage, the weapons just aren't grotesquely overpowered like they were on NostPvP. The original PvP gear is still very solid and very much usable, the weapons just aren't BiS all the way to Naxx. The only concern with waiting for 1.11 isn't that the gear is useless, it's that it's a very long time on a fresh server where most people already know everything and many don't feel sure the server will even last that long.

Stop being hysterical.

Cherry picking certain pieces of gear and the classes least affected by it doesn't make the issue any less apparent. The Weapons aren't being upgraded until BWL anyway just as it was on Nostalrius.

[Celitel 0]

the pre updated pvp gear are still good but some people just want the pvp gear set to be both bis in pvp and pve for all contents lol. Elysium staffs know what they are doing and if you dislike it you should stay on nost pvp maybe or you could roll on kronos, where the updated pvp gear was out since their launch

[prsina 17]

2 hours ago, Celitel said:

Well if you dont like it, then you should not play on elysium pvp, go play on the other nost funserver where the pvp gear from naxx is already out...., and only people with those magic op items can have fun in world pvp and can piss off on other people, who dont have time to no life it everyday and will make people who is doing pve look like shiit in world pvp etc

The pre update pvp gear is dogshit, singling out 2-3 pieces of gear that are decent does not make it less dogshit.

[Taurior 2]

16 minutes ago, Bourbonpie said:

I don't understand how it wouldn't affect the server positively. This gear isn't really used in PvE in BWL, nevermind AQ & Naxx, except for a few select pieces that i've mentioned such as R12 Hunter Gloves which are BiS forever in Vanilla. BWL or ZG Patch is the ideal spot to upgrade the gear as it will be on par with other current gear available.

As a warrior the shoulders will be used until you get the T2.5 shoulders if I am not mistaken. and legs will be used until you get titanic I believe(even without the update although it's only 4 str and 8 stam) 

Also, keep in mind that the blue gear will also be updated, using 2 blue pieces will be an easy way out so you don't have to farm other items instead.

Some of the negative impacts of updating the gear too early is for example: 

New players can use the PVP gear as a shortcut into raiding, PVP gear is not meant to be a shortcut.

A hardcore PVE player will be forced to also rank in order to be competative in raids (R14 weps already do this as it's hard to compete if you have MC weps and the other rogues/wars are running around with AQ/naxx weps)

Having those negative impacts just so people who enjoy ranking to rank 13/14 can be rewarded more than they initially would be seems a bit too much in my opinion.(there may be other negative impacts it has which I can't think of right now, same goes for positives)

and @larsen, if you're going to compare items, don't be a .....(you can fill in the blank) and only take the low upgrades, some pieces get !% crit or hit and some other stats

example:

https://gyazo.com/2329d041b12491d1e98b70dee8eb1561

Don't copy the media's way of informing people, it's not healthy for anyone :)

[prsina 17]

3 minutes ago, Taurior said:

As a warrior the shoulders will be used until you get the T2.5 shoulders if I am not mistaken. and legs will be used until you get titanic I believe(even without the update although it's only 4 str and 8 stam) 

Also, keep in mind that the blue gear will also be updated, using 2 blue pieces will be an easy way out so you don't have to farm other items instead.

Some of the negative impacts of updating the gear too early is for example: 

New players can use the PVP gear as a shortcut into raiding, PVP gear is not meant to be a shortcut.

A hardcore PVE player will be forced to also rank in order to be competative in raids (R14 weps already do this as it's hard to compete if you have MC weps and the other rogues/wars are running around with AQ/naxx weps)

Having those negative impacts just so people who enjoy ranking to rank 13/14 can be rewarded more than they initially would be seems a bit too much in my opinion.(there may be other negative impacts it has which I can't think of right now, same goes for positives)

and @larsen, if you're going to compare items, don't be a .....(you can fill in the blank) and only take the low upgrades, some pieces get !% crit or hit and some other stats

example:

https://gyazo.com/2329d041b12491d1e98b70dee8eb1561

Don't copy the media's way of informing people, it's not healthy for anyone :)

Correct me if I am wring, but the wep uodate is 1.6 anyway?

[Taurior 2]

Just now, prsina said:

Correct me if I am wring, but the wep uodate is 1.6 anyway?

That's correct, which is why I said that the weps already forces hardcore raiders in ranking to R14 to stay competative :)

[Bourbonpie 13]

9 minutes ago, Taurior said:

As a warrior the shoulders will be used until you get the T2.5 shoulders if I am not mistaken. and legs will be used until you get titanic I believe(even without the update although it's only 4 str and 8 stam) 

Also, keep in mind that the blue gear will also be updated, using 2 blue pieces will be an easy way out so you don't have to farm other items instead.

Some of the negative impacts of updating the gear too early is for example: 

New players can use the PVP gear as a shortcut into raiding, PVP gear is not meant to be a shortcut.

A hardcore PVE player will be forced to also rank in order to be competative in raids (R14 weps already do this as it's hard to compete if you have MC weps and the other rogues/wars are running around with AQ/naxx weps)

Having those negative impacts just so people who enjoy ranking to rank 13/14 can be rewarded more than they initially would be seems a bit too much in my opinion.(there may be other negative impacts it has which I can't think of right now, same goes for positives)

and @larsen, if you're going to compare items, don't be a .....(you can fill in the blank) and only take the low upgrades, some pieces get !% crit or hit and some other stats

example:

https://gyazo.com/2329d041b12491d1e98b70dee8eb1561

Don't copy the media's way of informing people, it's not healthy for anyone :)

I wouldn't call the PvP gear a short cut into raiding...it takes way longer and more time to Rank to 12/13/14 than it does to obtain pre-raid BiS. Again, at the BWL patch (When the weapons are being upgraded) the R14 Weapons are not -that- much better than CTS, Maladath, etc. Same goes for the Gear that should be updated in 1.7, and actually the gear is less useful in PvE at that point than the weapons are.

[Taurior 2]

I'm talking about the blue PVP gear, which is easy to get, if you're active in PVP while leveling you can get at least R4, I made rank 5 when I hit 60 on my warrior on nost PVP, getting the first pieces shoulnd't take longer than farming pre-raid BiS, depending on how much time you got ofc.

About weps: let's assume you're a human and are getting CTS and maladath, which will take at least a couple of months to get depending on the loot system/luck of drops, R14 players will already have their weps for that time:

R14 weps:

138-207 dmg

2 crit 56 AP 14 stam

CTS+Maladath:

106-198 dmg // 86-162 dmg

+- 0.7% crit

+4 wep skill

28 AP

7 stam

difference:

-32 min dmg

-9 max dmg

-1.3% crit

-28 AP

-7 stam

+4 wep skill

This is a pretty huge difference in DPS, even if you get both weps in your first BWL they will still have to wait for naxx to get a better weapon.

You only really start getting an equal weapon in AQ(AQR) which has a slightly better max dmg, still 24 less min dmg,4 more stam and 8 less AP

[void_echo 10]

9 hours ago, Bourbonpie said:

You realize there will be no point for anyone besides Rogues & Warriors to Rank past 10/11 if they keep it this way right?

And there will be no point for anyone at all to rank after AQ/Naxx if they don't buff the PvP gear stats past Blizzlike. Why is one ok and the other isn't?

[kenic 12]

7 hours ago, Taurior said:

About weps: let's assume you're a human and are getting CTS and maladath, which will take at least a couple of months to get depending on the loot system/luck of drops, R14 players will already have their weps for that time:

R14 weps:

138-207 dmg

2 crit 56 AP 14 stam

CTS+Maladath:

106-198 dmg // 86-162 dmg

+- 0.7% crit

+4 wep skill

28 AP

7 stam

difference:

-32 min dmg

-9 max dmg

-1.3% crit

-28 AP

-7 stam

+4 wep skill

This is a pretty huge difference in DPS, even if you get both weps in your first BWL they will still have to wait for naxx to get a better weapon.

You only really start getting an equal weapon in AQ(AQR) which has a slightly better max dmg, still 24 less min dmg,4 more stam and 8 less AP

Why are you still talking about the weapons. They are being updated when BWL drops regardless. The gear blows before the update. It's going to deter non warriors/rogues from having any real reason to PvP. Obviously it will still be fun but you won't be working towards anything worthwhile.

[Bourbonpie 13]

3 minutes ago, void_echo said:

And there will be no point for anyone at all to rank after AQ/Naxx if they don't buff the PvP gear stats past Blizzlike. Why is one ok and the other isn't?

The grind is worth it if the gear is upgraded early. If the gear is updated in 1.11 there is no reason to grind past 10/11 if you aren't a Rogue or Warrior

[void_echo 10]

1 hour ago, Bourbonpie said:

The grind is worth it if the gear is upgraded early

Not really. In your case, the grind is worth only for a specific timeframe. So, if we're introducing non-Blizzlike changes, why not fix the problem entirely, and make the grind worth it for the entire lifetime of the server?

[Yoga 3]

Im just saying the upgraded pvp set is more powerful than ppl here say it is. Many classes use that still in AQ40 and some items even in Naxx patch for the set Bonus. Warrior's get 3 items that are on par / much better than anything from BWL + r14 weapons. Even the Blue Pvp set 2 piece will be used by many warriors until AQ40 and Ouro. So the pvp set will be used in PVE until you replace it in late AQ / naxx. Weapons are still bis for melee when you enter naxx. So plz tell me why the pvp set should be bis pve /pvp until the last 40 man raid is opened?

I understand that it's not healthy for ranking and competitive pvp that the set is dogshit so imo they should upgrade it around Dragon's Of Nightmare - AQ opening. Somewhere there it would stil give you PVE advantage for AQ progression and it would be BIS for PVP because you don't replace the set totally until Naxx.

[Taurior 2]

8 hours ago, kenic said:

Why are you still talking about the weapons. They are being updated when BWL drops regardless. The gear blows before the update. It's going to deter non warriors/rogues from having any real reason to PvP. Obviously it will still be fun but you won't be working towards anything worthwhile.

Bourbonpie stated that the weapons are not a big upgrade compared to BWL weapons, I simply showed him why they are a lot better than the BWL weapons. Weapons were brought up because they already are a huge reward from PVP as they get replaced in naxx. having gear also upgraded too early will take away the rewards from PVE, some people spend weeks/months of raiding just to get a weapon improvement starting from MC and ending in naxx, while PVPers just hardcore PVP for a couple of weeks/months and get a weapon that will last them until naxx. tell me how that is fair? it's not, but that's how it was and you don't see anyone making a post about wanting the weapons to be upgraded later to give PVE players more of a reward.

You want the gear to be more rewarding, but think of it from a PVE perspective, someone that plays PVE fulltime and goes all out with consumables/ best gear possible to get also spends a lot of time in PVE, what you're trying to do is to make a change which forces hardcore PVE players(even normal competative players)  to rank up to be able to get the best gear for PVE. and as I stated earlier, the weapons already do this in BWL. You want PVP gear to be fully viable in PVP and PVE, this is not how it's meant to be. If you want to update the gear earlier so it's more rewarding for PVP players why not also nerf the PVP weapons so the PVE weapons are on-par with the PVP weapons. It's just how it was back in retail, and if you want to change that you have to change it so it doens't just benefit the PVP community, it has to be a balanced change.

And people who say that not upgrading it will ruin the PVP scene, that's just not true. It's blizzlike to have it that way, it will not ruin the PVP scene, changing it will maybe have more people do PVP, but not changing something will not ruin it. if you want to be rewarded for PVP, no1 is stopping you from PVPing on the Nost PVP server which has the changes

[Strahl 2]

imo this will make alot more players interested in PvP. maybe not in ranking, but in PvP.

I don't see how this is a bad thing really

[kenic 12]

20 minutes ago, Taurior said:

Weapons were brought up because they already are a huge reward from PVP as they get replaced in naxx.

You want PVP gear to be fully viable in PVP and PVE, this is not how it's meant to be. If you want to update the gear earlier so it's more rewarding for PVP players why not also nerf the PVP weapons so the PVE weapons are on-par with the PVP weapons. It's just how it was back in retail, and if you want to change that you have to change it so it doens't just benefit the PVP community,

 

Weapons will get replaced in AQ40, not naxx.

What are you talking about? Having PvP gear be viable in PvE was exactly how it was meant to be and vice versa. That didn't change until tbc came out and they added resilience. If you don't update the PvP gear then PvPers will just get smashed by people in PvE gear more than they already do. And guess what? That's the exact reason they updated the gear in the first place. People in PvP gear were getting absolutely pounded by people in BWL and AQ40 gear so they were forced to update it.  "it's just how it was back in retail" my ass. You aren't the only one that played back then.

[Blib 14]

18 hours ago, Bourbonpie said:

You realize there will be no point for anyone besides Rogues & Warriors to Rank past 10/11 if they keep it this way right? Blizzard completely dropped the ball on this back in the day and Nostalrius realized that keeping this the way it was would effectively ruin serious PvP for that part of the servers community. So many people will not roll on this server if this ends up being the case.

There is no reason for anyone besides Rogues and Warriors to rank past 10/11 as it is already, if you're looking at it from a pve perspective, yet people are still doing it. PvP gear being bis for PvP should be reason enough to do it.

Besides naxx gear being OP in the bwl patch, another reason that makes this a shitty idea is the fact that it brings other bad itemizations to light. Example being casters tier gear itemization. It was buffed multiple times between launch and patch 1.12.1 since blizzard gradually realized how bad int was for casters compared to strength/agi for melee. Either go full funserver and try to fix all imbalances in an undoubtedly broken game, or leave it as it is.

[prsina 17]

7 minutes ago, Blib said:

PvP gear being bis for PvP should be reason enough to do it.

Except that it isn't, the vast majority of it being teribad. It's barely better than t1 while requiring an absurd ammount of time and dedication in a set period of time(decay eats you alice if you try to take it casual while higher rank) while t1 requires you to raidlog a few hours per week.