The Devilsaur monopoly.

[nooobieee 3]

Just now, Shiamorah said:

Pottu's point is that it is an issue players can actively work against! 

Pottu's point is that it's a lower priority issue for them because there are some unnamed ways to actively work against it. No one has said what these ways are though. I can't prevent a same faction player from sheeping the opposite faction to heal them, and that by definition unfairly tilts the playing field in their favor. Should I enlist opposite faction players to sheep me to even it out? Do you know how stupid that sounds?

[Hurricane2 2]

1 hour ago, metagame said:

Okay, let's try taking a different approach to this issue. If it is not your opinion or interpretation of the rules that is causing this disagreement, what is it then? Why are we talking about this? Is everyone who disagrees with you just wrong, and you're right? How would you describe my position?

Blizzard designed the game so that you can't cross faction communicate.  That's just how it is.  That was Blizzard's choice and I am simply echoing their choice on how they designed the game.  Just because you are able to communicate outside of the game doesn't mean it's allowed.  This is not a difficult mechanic to understand.

 

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, nooobieee said:

Pottu's point is that it's a lower priority issue for them because there are some unnamed ways to actively work against it. No one has said what these ways are though. I can't prevent a same faction player from sheeping the opposite faction to heal them, and that by definition unfairly tilts the playing field in their favor. Should I enlist opposite faction players to sheep me to even it out? Do you know how stupid that sounds?

Pottu's point is that the staff are going to do jack poop about it, and it's up to the players!

[Fladrif 14]

3 minutes ago, Shiamorah said:

(...)

The point is, what is stopping you from doing the same exact thing? Are they abusing or exploiting a function of the game that others cannot? No, of course not. That is why the answer is, and always will be that this is a player issue that can be solved by players.

GoldSelling: what is stopping you from doing the same exact thing? Are they abusing or exploiting a function of the game that others cannot? No, but perma-ban is the answer.

The problem with the monopoly is that they could decide the price of a trade-good item that none is allowed to farm (25g for example). Then they could sell 100g for $17 by trading 4 items in-game and none will notice it.

Why players can't solve it?

Because if they make money out of it, they can actually pay people to farm and monopolize that resource.  

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, Fladrif said:

GoldSelling: what is stopping you from doing the same exact thing? Are they abusing or exploiting a function of the game that others cannot? No, but perma-ban is the answer.

The problem with the monopoly is that they could decide the price of a trade-good item that none is allowed to farm (25g for example). Then they could sell 100g for $17 by trading 4 items in-game and none will notice it.

Why players can't solve it?

Because if they make money out of it, they can actually pay people to farm and monopolize that resource.  

Oooh right, gold selling what is stopping you? Terms of Use.

What is stopping you from doing what others are doing with Devilsaurs? Nothing.

[Nosleep 4]

Farming mobs is not against teh rules even if its co-op between horde and ally.

 

But because in order to farm them they have to engage in PVP.. and so 1 faction is directly helping the other faction to win in a pvp setting.

 

that is win trading.

 

Assuming the 'concept# of win trading is helping the opposite faction to win in a pvp setting, the only ''player based solution'' is to win trade back??

 

Is that your argument?

 

Because opposite factions helping each other to win in a pvp setting is exactly win trading.

 

Even the normal win trading in bg's has a player based solution under these arguments.. win trade more than the other guys win trading.. that is at present the best argument the 'defenders of this win trade' have to offer.

 

I dont think @pottu would endorse that and wasnt endorsing that, but then i dont think he has taken the PVP aspect of this co-op into it yet, but i personally think he should, because they are win trading 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Nosleep

[Shiamorah 20]

4 minutes ago, Nosleep said:

Farming mobs is not against teh rules even if its co-op between horde and ally.

 

But because in order to farm them they have to engage in PVP.. and so 1 faction is directly helping the other faction to win in a pvp setting.

 

that is win trading.

 

Assuming the 'concept# of win trading is helping the opposite faction to win in a pvp setting, the only ''player based solution'' is to win trade back??

 

Is that your argument?

 

Because opposite factions helping each other to win in a pvp setting is exactly win trading.

Where in Terms of Use is farming Devilsaur against the rules, crossfaction or not?

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/21966-terms-of-use-rules-regulations/

 

[Nosleep 4]

Just now, Shiamorah said:

Where in Terms of Use is farming Devilsaur against the rules, crossfaction or not?

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/21966-terms-of-use-rules-regulations/

 

lol you qouted me and missed the 1st line of my post??

 

I said farming mobs is NOT against the rules.

 

But opposite factions helping each other in a pvp setting is.

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, Nosleep said:

lol you qouted me and missed the 1st line of my post??

 

I said farming mobs is NOT against the rules.

 

But opposite factions helping each other in a pvp setting is.

Where does it say that? 

[Nosleep 4]

Just now, Shiamorah said:

Where does it say that? 

win trading

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, Nosleep said:

win trading

Citation needed*

Staff have clearly stated that win trading is against the rules in Battlegrounds. 

But I have never seen anything stated beyond Battlegrounds.

[Nosleep 4]

On a PVP server, the world is a battleground.

 

Actively helping the opposite faction to win pvp battles and them helping you,  is win trading.

 

Edit: if each faction worked together to farm mobs but didnt help each other to win pvp battles, they wouldnt be doing anything wrong.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Nosleep

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, Nosleep said:

On a PVP server, the world is a battleground.

 

Actively helping the opposite faction to win pvp battles and them helping you,  is win trading.

See, you are making leaps here, that have no factual precedence. Where in any link, source, citation, anywhere has it been said that the world is a battleground?

[Nosleep 4]

1 minute ago, Shiamorah said:

See, you are making leaps here, that have no factual precedence. Where in any link, source, citation, anywhere has it been said that the world is a battleground?

I can play that game too, the world is a battle ground by definition, unless you can show me a link, source, citation, anywhere has it been said that the world is  not a battleground

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, Nosleep said:

I can play that game too, the world is a battle ground by definition, unless you can show me a link, source, citation, anywhere has it been said that the world is  not a battleground

Easy - http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Battleground

[Nosleep 4]

You seem to be refusing to even explore the idea that if 'normal' win trading is against the rules, then it should be the same anywhere that the principle is present.

 

IE: spying and telling the opposite faction about an incoming raid would still require each faction to win in a fair battle....

but when you actively help them to gain honor points by assisting them in the battle, then its exactly the same as win trading and so should be looked upon so.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Nosleep

[Shiamorah 20]

2 minutes ago, Nosleep said:

You seem to be refusing to even explore the idea that if 'normal' win trading is against the rules, then it should be the same anywhere that the principle is present.

 

IE: spying and telling the opposite faction about an incoming raid would still require each faction to win in a fair battle....

but when you actively help them to gain honor points by assisting them in the battle, then its exactly the same as win trading and so should be looked upon so.

I just listen to the Terms of Use and what that means.

Maybe you should too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Nosleep 4]

5 minutes ago, Shiamorah said:

Easy - http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Battleground

wiki is not an authorised source.

[Shiamorah 20]

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Battleground

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/pvp/battlegrounds

http://www.wowhead.com/battlegrounds

 

I really like the battle.net one that specifically differentiates World PvP from Battlegrounds. :)

Edited March 9, 2017 by Shiamorah

[Nosleep 4]

 

2 minutes ago, Shiamorah said:

I just listen to the Terms of Use and what that means.

Maybe you should too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So what youre saying is that because there is no literal explanation of this exact situation that it should not be looked at?

 

So if someone finds an exploit that helps them win honor unfairly (as with normal wintrading which wasnt against the rules on vanilla release and was only made bannable once it was 'discovered' ppl were doing it) that has not yet been explained or looked at, we should not ever look at it and allow it to continue because we dont make new rules for an ever changing world??

 

hmmm thats not a very smart approach to new situations

[Shiamorah 20]

1 minute ago, Nosleep said:

 

So what youre saying is that because there is no literal explanation of this exact situation that it should not be looked at?

 

So if someone finds an exploit that helps them win honor unfairly (as with normal wintrading which wasnt against the rules on vanilla release and was only made bannable once it was 'discovered' ppl were doing it) that has not yet been explained or looked at, we should not ever look at it and allow it to continue because we dont make new rules for an ever changing world??

 

hmmm thats not a very smart approach to new situations

I think the staff DID look at it, and responded. If you look on the first page, I cited Pottu. He knows exactly what is happening here, and didn't say anything was in violation of our Terms of Use. So.... Don't know what more you want! :)

[Voice 2]

To the Pottu comment

"He doesnt adress people running both alliance and horde at the same time while pvp'ing, farming or doing instances, lots of us would love to run both alliance and horde in BGs to help our self."

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, Voice said:

To the Pottu comment

"He doesnt adress people running both alliance and horde at the same time while pvp'ing, farming or doing instances, lots of us would love to run both alliance and horde in BGs to help our self."

Isn't it pretty ignorant to assume Pottu does not understand the full context of the situation? Or do you think he just comments on something as detailed as he did without knowing?

[Nosleep 4]

2 minutes ago, Shiamorah said:

Isn't it pretty ignorant to assume Pottu does not understand the full context of the situation? Or do you think he just comments on something as detailed as he did without knowing?

As i said in a previous post, I think he didnt take the PVP aspect into it and draw the obvious comparisons between win trading in bg and win trading out of bg.. why 1 is ok and the other not?

 

And I am sure pottu is very smart and very good at his job.. but like all human beings, no one is above missing the point, as you so clearly prove with your posts.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Nosleep

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, Nosleep said:

As i said in a previous post, I think he didnt take the PVP aspect into it and draw the obvious comparisons between win trading in bg and win trading out of bg.. why 1 is ok and the other not?

 

And I am sure pottu is very smart and very good at his job.. but like all humna beings, no one is above missing the point, as you so clearly prove with your posts.

One involves honor, and the other doesn't. Easy.