Anathema PvP — PvP Itemization Update

[Hashmir 0]

6 hours ago, smokeit said:

Thunderfury should be buffed on Naxx release

Why? Even if you wanted to argue that this is proper itemization you'd be wrong. Naxx is released with patch 1.11 and Thunderfury changes in 1.12 so it wouldn't even be updated until AFTER Naxx. So basically by the time the server has done progressing, so essentially it will NEVER be updated because once Naxx is released there isn't much of a point in releasing 1.12 which has basically no new content, just QOL updates that are already in the game on Anathema. By that time you have the Naxx swords available which probably make TF obsolete anyway.

This is an item that is similar to the R12/R13 gear where a lot of work went into the people getting it based on the assumption that it was going to remain in its post buff state. Nost had no plans of changing it and Elysium kept it in it's same state for 3 months. I understand people reported it as a bug but it was a conscious decision to have it itemized at 1.12

 

Our Rogue GM waited a year to get his second binding. Got it 2 weeks ago, had one BWL raid with it where he was top DPS by a significant margin (using it in his offhand) and then 4 days later it was nerfed. He just tried using it in his MH last night and it wasn't as good as CTS/Maladath. So now our guild has a Thunderfury that's going to sit in a bank because Elysium decided to downgrade an item from a state that it had been in the entire duration of Nost and the entire duration of Anathema up until this past Sunday.

For reference this was his DPS on Vael last week (Atredes)

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/FightOverview.aspx?Raid=62911&Fight=1

And this was this week

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/FightOverview.aspx?Raid=63891&Fight=1

 

Went from 1252 DPS to 983 because of the change. That's a 21% decrease.

 

If I was him I'd be furious. It's not even my item and I'm livid.

@Cogfather Can we please get a formal response on this?

Edited March 10, 2017 by Hashmir

[Slicy 11]

1 hour ago, Hashmir said:

For reference this was his DPS on Vael last week (Atredes)

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/FightOverview.aspx?Raid=62911&Fight=1

And this was this week

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/FightOverview.aspx?Raid=63891&Fight=1

 

Went from 1252 DPS to 983 because of the change. That's a 21% decrease.

 

If I was him I'd be furious. It's not even my item and I'm livid.

@Cogfather Can we please get a formal response on this?

Why would you even use any kind of sword in Main Hand as a rogue for Vael is the real question here...

[notmecher 0]

1 hour ago, Hashmir said:

Why? Even if you wanted to argue that this is proper itemization you'd be wrong. Naxx is released with patch 1.11 and Thunderfury changes in 1.12 so it wouldn't even be updated until AFTER Naxx. So basically by the time the server has done progressing, so essentially it will NEVER be updated because once Naxx is released there isn't much of a point in releasing 1.12 which has basically no new content, just QOL updates that are already in the game on Anathema. By that time you have the Naxx swords available which probably make TF obsolete anyway.

This is an item that is similar to the R12/R13 gear where a lot of work went into the people getting it based on the assumption that it was going to remain in its post buff state. Nost had no plans of changing it and Elysium kept it in it's same state for 3 months. I understand people reported it as a bug but it was a conscious decision to have it itemized at 1.12

 

Our Rogue GM waited a year to get his second binding. Got it 2 weeks ago, had one BWL raid with it where he was top DPS by a significant margin (using it in his offhand) and then 4 days later it was nerfed. He just tried using it in his MH last night and it wasn't as good as CTS/Maladath. So now our guild has a Thunderfury that's going to sit in a bank because Elysium decided to downgrade an item from a state that it had been in the entire duration of Nost and the entire duration of Anathema up until this past Sunday.

For reference this was his DPS on Vael last week (Atredes)

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/FightOverview.aspx?Raid=62911&Fight=1

And this was this week

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/FightOverview.aspx?Raid=63891&Fight=1

 

Went from 1252 DPS to 983 because of the change. That's a 21% decrease.

 

If I was him I'd be furious. It's not even my item and I'm livid.

@Cogfather Can we please get a formal response on this?

Should've given it to a tank lol

[Hashmir 0]

6 minutes ago, notmecher said:

Should've given it to a tank lol

Our MT already has one, in it's 1.12 state it's BiS OH for rogues until possibly Naxx swords, and he's our GM so we were happy to give it to him. If you aren't going to add anything constructive to the conversation why bother commenting? This is a legitimate concern to bring up and it's dismissive comments like yours that derail the conversation into a troll fest. Just stop.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Hashmir

[NoGnomo 7]

On 9/3/2017 at 8:00 PM, Slicy said:

Amen.

PS: What about the other part of the final update on the pvp gear ? Did you mean 2 weeks after 1.9 is added or 2 weeks after AQ gates open (this basically postpones the update to few months from now on I assume) ?

+1

@ShennaWhen will you implement new R14 weapons?

They are on-par (or worse) with AQ weapons, so it would create balance.

Thanks

Edited March 10, 2017 by NoGnomo

[Slicy 11]

Caster/Healer ones are actually slightly worse ;)

[notmecher 0]

1 hour ago, Hashmir said:

Our MT already has one, in it's 1.12 state it's BiS OH for rogues until possibly Naxx swords, and he's our GM so we were happy to give it to him. If you aren't going to add anything constructive to the conversation why bother commenting? This is a legitimate concern to bring up and it's dismissive comments like yours that derail the conversation into a troll fest. Just stop.

Give it to an OT then. What would help your kill timers more than a TF OH would be having tanks that can actually generate threat and DPS that can play the game.

TF MH was a change that was coming and expected on Nost before shut down. Just like Alcors going BOP

 

[Zarant 2]

I can say that the elysium team managed to keep the same blizzlike feel when blizzard nerfed TF on 1.9, which made people complain on the forums and resulted in pretty much all rogues banking it until the 1.12 buff.

[Hashmir 0]

39 minutes ago, notmecher said:

Give it to an OT then. What would help your kill timers more than a TF OH would be having tanks that can actually generate threat and DPS that can play the game.

TF MH was a change that was coming and expected on Nost before shut down. Just like Alcors going BOP

 

At the time the only tanks we had in MC other than our MT were Alts so it didn't make sense to give it to one of them. I don't understand your argument though. TF is BiS OH for rogues. So a rogue having TF in OH is the  best way for him to play the game...

Regardless none of this changes my argument. If I was trying to arguing that a government changing speeding ticket prices to an exorbitant amount was unfair and should be reverted and you just told me "well you shouldn't have gotten a speeding ticket, then you wouldn't be in this situation" is not a legitimate argument if I'm arguing that the change is unfair. Your comment is dismissive.

 

Either way, keep on giving me your opinion about how we were stupid to get our Guild Master his BiS weapon. All I'm interested in is a response from Elysium Staff.

[Hashmir 0]

1 hour ago, Zarant said:

I can say that the elysium team managed to keep the same blizzlike feel when blizzard nerfed TF on 1.9, which made people complain on the forums and resulted in pretty much all rogues banking it until the 1.12 buff.

Afaik Thunderury wasn't touched in 1.9. That's why I was surprised when Elyisum changed it on Anathema with the release of 1.9. They might have nerfed the proc rate but TF was MH all the way through vanilla until 1.12

[Zarant 2]

Before the patch 1.9 thunderfury had a 30% proc rate and it could proc off melee attacks AND spells, including poisons and the aoe NR debuff. So even being a MH only weapon, it was bis for rogues.

[Hashmir 0]

1 hour ago, Zarant said:

Before the patch 1.9 thunderfury had a 30% proc rate and it could proc off melee attacks AND spells, including poisons and the aoe NR debuff. So even being a MH only weapon, it was bis for rogues.

Looks like you're right.

http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=703

(not sure if it's kosher to post a link from Nostalrius forums on here but it has all the detail I"m looking for)

 

So you were right about the outrage on Elysium (or at least mine) matching that of the original retail outrage as mentioned here:

"Feb 2, 2006 – Extremely useful post – 30% Proc to 15% and Nerf Outrage Confirmation from Community
Q1. ” still had a 30% proc rate (compared to it's 15% now). Pg1
Q2. “thunderfury is now pretty useless.. Or maybe the 20+ page thread of people complaining about it and how it's now a former shell of what it used to be is wrong and you're the only person who knows right? Why don't you go correct the hundreds of people on the WoW forums who have done the math, posted there recap logs to back it up, and know for a fact that TF is now gimp.” Pg1
Q3. “the tripple nerfing it got was too far though and ruined the weapon. Just changing it to not proc off procs would have been enough to make it still worthy of the orange name.” pg2
Source(https://forums.multiplay.com/world-warcraft/38577-power-thunder-fury)"

So this is even a bigger issue than just the MH / OH issue. Sounds like with the proc nerf, even if it was usable in the OH it still would he significantly worse than it was previously. I assume that means that tanks with it are seeing a noticeable decrease in their dps and threat generation. It will be interesting to see if tanks end up switching to something else. 

So Thunderfury is currently in its "sitting in players' bank because of nerf" state.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Hashmir

[gh0un 3]

I lost my Don Mauricios band on the latest restart.

Here is my realmplayers as proof that i had it before the restart: http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=Ana&player=Hornyannie

Anyone else experienced something similar?

 

 

[Plask 4]

What about thunderfury? It had 25% procrate on nost but here u nerfed the shit out of it, 15%. Considering you decided to let rankers keep their updated gear what about thunderfury wielders?

Don't do item patches if you can't be consistent, its exactly this kind of shit that turns ppl away from server.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Plask

[Uglyaf 9]

42 минуты назад, Plask сказал:

What about thunderfury? It had 25% procrate on nost but here u nerfed the shit out of it, 15%. Considering you decided to let rankers keep their updated gear what about thunderfury wielders?

Don't do item patches if you can't be consistent, its exactly this kind of shit that turns ppl away from server.

Do you realise that current 15% supposed to be in patch 1.9? 25% proc rate and changed to one hand in patch 1.12.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Uglyaf

[Hashmir 0]

3 hours ago, Uglyaf said:

Do you realise that current 15% supposed to be in patch 1.9? 25% proc rate and changed to one hand in patch 1.12.

He knows that. His point is that R12/13 gear isn't on 1.9, it's on 1.11 (or 1.12,  not sure). They decided to put it in that state because of the work it takes to get it and that's the state that Nost had it in and they decided it wouldn't be right to take it away from the people who worked that hard to get it under the assumption of it being items with certain stats. 

Thunderfury should be treated the same. It's an incredible feat to get it, Nost had it in the 1.12 state on purpose because the pre 1.9 state is too broken and the 1.9-1.11 state is too nerfed for the kind of item it is. 

Thunderfury should be treated like the R12/13 gear. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Hashmir

[Qgalskap 0]

7 hours ago, Hashmir said:

He knows that. His point is that R12/13 gear isn't on 1.9, it's on 1.11 (or 1.12,  not sure). They decided to put it in that state because of the work it takes to get it and that's the state that Nost had it in and they decided it wouldn't be right to take it away from the people who worked that hard to get it under the assumption of it being items with certain stats. 

Thunderfury should be treated the same. It's an incredible feat to get it, Nost had it in the 1.12 state on purpose because the pre 1.9 state is too broken and the 1.9-1.11 state is too nerfed for the kind of item it is. 

Thunderfury should be treated like the R12/13 gear. 

Yes

[Sabre 5]

ETA on elysium pvp gear nerf?

people are going to hit rank 13 soon

[Slicy 11]

On 09/03/2017 at 8:00 PM, Slicy said:

PS: What about the other part of the final update on the pvp gear ? Did you mean 2 weeks after 1.9 is added or 2 weeks after AQ gates open (this basically postpones the update to few months from now on I assume) ?

We are way over the 2 weeks now. Any words about this ? Why would we have epic PvP armor pieces in their final form but not the weapons at the moment ? The impact of rare and epic pvp gear is way bigger than the few weapons that should be added in both pvp & pve content, considering the amount of r10 and r12/13 on the server compared to the amount of remaining r14 who haven't left the project yet.

I can provide a list of the item IDs that should be added to the ally and the ones for the horde weapon vendor NPCs if it can help...

Edited March 22, 2017 by Slicy

[Jamirus 0]

I thought you people wanted "blizzlike" 

what the fuck

[Slicy 11]

Get a clue of what has been decided by the projects staff in order to balance pvp & pve gear. Come back once you are not clueless anymore.

[Jamirus 0]

9 hours ago, Slicy said:

Get a clue of what has been decided by the projects staff in order to balance pvp & pve gear. Come back once you are not clueless anymore.

There should not be a "balance" of gear until it was done on retail and this can cause a snowball effect.  How about we buff some dps classes to be more competitive in the raid scene?  See what I'm saying?

It's funny how people are always looking for this idea of "blizzlike" until the pendulum of bad swings their way.  Make no mistake, this is a QoL of change and not in order of retail release.

[Lorilay 12]

On 3/21/2017 at 3:08 PM, Slicy said:

We are way over the 2 weeks now. Any words about this ? Why would we have epic PvP armor pieces in their final form but not the weapons at the moment ? The impact of rare and epic pvp gear is way bigger than the few weapons that should be added in both pvp & pve content, considering the amount of r10 and r12/13 on the server compared to the amount of remaining r14 who haven't left the project yet.

I can provide a list of the item IDs that should be added to the ally and the ones for the horde weapon vendor NPCs if it can help...

From a logical perspective, it would make more sense for it to be 2 weeks after AQ opens. I imagine the reason for that number to begin with was so that guilds racing to complete AQ wouldn't be able to do it with AQ-level weapons at their disposal.

[Slicy 11]

No the logical perspective is if you have the last versions of blue and epic pvp gear, you should also have the last versions of the weapons. As I said, armor pieces from a later patch have a way bigger impact and the huge amount of R10/R12/R13 players should not get rewarded more than those who pushed higher, it's quite simple.

It's not even providing pve upgrades which matter since :

- Currently available gear is on par / better

- It concerns an amount of (active) players you can count with 1 hand.

Saying it will change anything to "racing to complete AQ" is a complete nonsense ;)

Edited March 24, 2017 by Slicy

[DaRealGraypube 0]

slicy shut the fuck up