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Omakaroni

[Spreadsheet] Warrior NAXX/AQ BiS.

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Long time ago Storfan and Vido posted a spreadsheet on the Nostalrius forum.

Original: Link to Source

 After the server source code got published, I was able to see how the server really calculates things, and I noticed some mistakes in it.
I then added this knowledge to the best of my ability to the spreadsheet.

Click here to download Sheet and BiS lists ---> Link to AQ/Naxx BiS Lists/Spreadsheet

And join the discord for regularly updates: https://discord.gg/Ds85MeR

If you find anything that is wrong with the spreadsheet, or you edit it, please share it with me, its a work in progress.
However use the source code for Anathema when pointing at mistakes in the calculation.
Best way to get in contact is at the discord.

Link to Source Code

Calculation behind Weapon skill against lvl 63 mobs:

Spoiler

Calculation for miss chance in relation to wep skill from source code (LINK):

Base missChance = 5.6% (+ 19% Dual Wield Penalty on white attacks)

skilldiff = (Attacker Weapon Skill) - (Target Defense Skill)

if (skillDiff < -10)
missChance -= (skillDiff + 10) * 0.4 - 1.0
else
missChance -= skillDiff * 0.1

A few examples: 

Case 1: 300 weapon Skill

skilldiff = 300 - 315 = -15
(-15 < -10) therefore 
missChance -= (-15+10) * 0.4 - 1
missChance -= -3
missChance = 5.6 - (-3) = 8.6

Therefore the chance to miss target with 315 defense when you have 300 weapon skill is 8.6% or 27.6% with whites when dual wielding.

Case 2: 304 Weapon Skill

skilldiff = 304 - 315 = -11
(-11 < -10) therefore
missChance -= (-11+10) * 0.4 - 1
missChance -= -1.4
missChance = 5.6 - (-1.4) = 7

Therefore the chance to miss target with 315 defense when you have 304 weapon skill is 7% or 26% with whites when dual wielding.

Case 3: 305 Weapon Skill

skilldiff = 305 - 315 = -10
(-10 = -10) therefore
missChance -= -10 * 0.1
missChance -= -1
missChance = 5.6 - (-1) = 6.6

So with for instance an orc racial your miss chance is at 6.6% or 25.6% with whites when dual wielding.

Case 4: 309 Weapon Skill

skilldiff = 309 - 315 = -6
(-6 > -10) therefore 
missChance -= -6 * 0.1
missChance -= -0.6
missChance = 5.6 - (-0.6) = 6.2

For instance a combat sword(s) rogue with Maladath will have a miss chance of 6.2% or 25.2%.

Case 5: 312 Weapon Skill

skilldiff = 312 - 315 = -3
(-3 > -10) therefore
missChance -= -3 * 0.1
missChance -= -0.3
missChance = 5.6 - (-0.3) = 5.9

An orc using axe(s) with Edgemaster's will have 5.9% or 24.9% chance.

Glancing blow damage from source code (LINK):

315: 100%
314: 99.26%
313: 98.4%
312: 97.42%
311: 96.29%
310: 95%
309: 93.51%
308: 91.8%
307: 89.84%
306: 87.59%
305: 85%
304: 82.03%
303: 78.6%
302: 74.69%
301: 70.18%
300: 65%

Meaning that an orc warrior with 305 weapon skill with axe's will take 85% of the damage, compared to a normal white hit, when he glance.
20% closer to the white hit, than he would with 300 skill.
Do not mix this with chance to glance, which is 40% against a lvl63 boss mob.

Note that a BiS list is a absolute BiS combination of items, meaning having them all is best possible min/max.
Changing only one item around may change what is better elsewhere.
What is best differ from class to class/boss to boss and if you have buffs or not.
You wanna have 9 hit and as high attack power and crit as possible, but at some point, usually with songflower, your crit gets better than your crit cap, then you wanna stack more hit or weapon skill to increase your crit cap while still maintaining a good attack power.
Without songflower you focus more on crit because reaching crit cap is much harder.
Alliance get more value from stats because of kings and since they don't have windfury they can apply crit stones to MH aswell as dense stone to OH, while horde only apply dense stone to OH. This results in humans stacking more hit fully buffed than horde, to support the good crit.

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Reported for sticky!

EDIT: If you have the time, willpower and know-how, I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated in the community if you also added 2h weapons and 2h fury to the sheet.

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2 hours ago, Josipbroz said:

Don't do this ever again. Reports are meant for reporting spam, abuse etc

Alright then. How do I report a thread for sticky though?

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There is no feature to request a sticky, so the report function can be used for this actually.

 

That is how it works on other forums, and even did on retail forums for a while.

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On 25.5.2017 at 9:34 AM, Storfan said:

Reported for sticky!

EDIT: If you have the time, willpower and know-how, I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated in the community if you also added 2h weapons and 2h fury to the sheet.

2 hand weapons and spec changes are already added, but i haven't looked into if its working the right way, I wont either. Right now i don't have the time and willpower with AQ-raiding taking a lot of time, and since 2 hand fury is a spec surrounding Boners Edge slam damage on single target fights or cleave on heavy AoE fights. I believe its much RNG involved. It would take a lot of effort to get it down on the spreadsheet. I have to add boners procc chance and the different stages of it together with multiple target options and armor values. You can however fool around with mob mitigation option too see how damage changes when mob got less armor, while using boners edge and 2hand specc.

The reason mitigation is set at 0.2 is because most bosses have around 4.7k armor according to Vido that previously worked on the sheet. If thats the case on nost, it's differs from boss to boss but with 5 stacks of sunder, FF, CoR you're left with around 1.5k armor so roughly 15-20% damage reduction.
according to db vanilla most MC and BWL bosses got 4,641 armor like Ebonroc and Rag.
according to db vanilla most AQ and Naxx bosses got 4,691 armor like Cthun and Patchwerk.
However using the script that calculates resistances in-game: 
/script u=UnitResistance y="target" a=u(y ,0) h=u(y ,1) f=u(y ,2) n=u(y ,3) fr=u(y ,4) s=u(y ,5) z=u(y ,6) SendChatMessage(UnitName(y).." has "..a.." Armor, "..f.." Fire, "..n.." Nature, "..z.." Arcane, "..fr.." Frost and "..s.." Shadow res.", "Emote");
C'thun got 6500 armor, i'm currently looking into finding the correct values for all bosses, when i got the spare time for it.

Edited

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12 hours ago, Omakaroni said:

2 hand weapons and spec changes are already added, but i haven't looked into if its working the right way, I wont either. Right now i don't have the time and willpower with AQ-raiding taking a lot of time, and since 2 hand fury is a spec surrounding Boners Edge slam damage on single target fights or cleave on heavy AoE fights. I believe its much RNG involved. It would take a lot of effort to get it down on the spreadsheet. I have to add boners procc chance and the different stages of it together with multiple target options and armor values. You can however fool around with mob mitigation option too see how damage changes when mob got less armor, while using boners edge and 2hand specc.

The reason mitigation is set at 0.2 is because most bosses have around 4.7k armor according to vanilla db. Those seem to be the same values used on nost, it's differs from boss to boss but with 5 stacks of sunder, FF, CoR you're left with around 1.5k armor so roughly 15-20% damage reduction.
In BWL and MC most bosses got 4,641 armor like Ebonroc and Rag
In AQ and naxx most got 4,691 armor like Cthun and Patchwerk.

2h-fury is quite viable even without Bonereavers and Slam. Personally I'm running with a standard 20/31 2h-fury spec with standard fury rotation and using Sulfuras/Ashkhandi. Anyways, thank you for the effort you put in. I would give it a shot adding this myself but I simply dont have your know-how.

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Some of this doesn't look right, but ill reserve judgment until after I plug all this in.

 

*edit Whelp I never woulda thought MH dagger would be a thing but the numbers check out...

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1 hour ago, Manandultra said:

Just wondering in terms of humans, what would be the BIS weapons, would it be 2x AQR?

Technically it should be Grand Marshals Longsword+Maladath, or 2x Grand Marshals Longsword. If you dont have access to either of these then yes, 2x AQR would be your BiS as human.

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5 minutes ago, Storfan said:

Technically it should be Grand Marshals Longsword+Maladath, or 2x Grand Marshals Longsword. If you dont have access to either of these then yes, 2x AQR would be your BiS as human.

Ah ok ty

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Proc-formula for Ironfoe got the incorrect proc-rate set. It should be 5% instead of the 10% I see in:

=YellowSwings*(BaseDamage+NetAP/14*BaseSpeed)*WhiteHitMod*0,1+(BaseDamage+NetAP/14*BaseSpeed)/FinalSpeed*WhiteHitMod*0,1

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working on sheet.

i'm going through every calculation in the sheet so it might take some time before i can call it 100% accurate bare with me.

Net AP, Net Crit MH/OH, Net Hit MH/OH, Net Item & Buff Haste and Net AC is what i currently is done checking.

Update will follow shortly.

Edit: Main post should be updated version now.

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11 hours ago, Omakaroni said:

the formula for one extra attack, if you look at Thrash blade that has 5% procc is the same:

=YellowSwings*(BaseDamage+NetAP/14*BaseSpeed)*WhiteHitMod*0,05+(BaseDamage+NetAP/14*BaseSpeed)/FinalSpeed*WhiteHitMod*0,05

but since Ironfoe is 2 extra attacks and not one, the procc was doubled instead of the swing, however it was a mistake adding the yellow swing part, correct formula should be:

=YellowSwings*(BaseDamage+NetAP/14*BaseSpeed)*WhiteHitMod*0,05+(BaseDamage+NetAP/14*BaseSpeed)/FinalSpeed*WhiteHitMod*0,1

 

Alright then, my bad. Carry on!

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Hold up, there's so much conflicting information out there that I don't know what to believe. So as of right now on Elysium PVP server I'm a human warrior using swords and Edgemaster's. Does this mean that I only need 6% hit on my gear to be hit capped? So Lionheart, Truestrike, Battleborn armbraces, and Striker's Mark is all I need? I was under the impression that weapon skill only reduced glancing blow damage mitigation and the 9% hit was still required to be soft-capped. Please clarify, thank you.

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On 30.5.2017 at 2:57 PM, nemex said:

Hold up, there's so much conflicting information out there that I don't know what to believe. So as of right now on Elysium PVP server I'm a human warrior using swords and Edgemaster's. Does this mean that I only need 6% hit on my gear to be hit capped? So Lionheart, Truestrike, Battleborn armbraces, and Striker's Mark is all I need? I was under the impression that weapon skill only reduced glancing blow damage mitigation and the 9% hit was still required to be soft-capped. Please clarify, thank you.

Calculation from the main post is directly taken out from source code for the server, so yes with swords and Edgemaster on a human you will have 5.3% chance to miss or 6% rounded up on yellow swings against a lvl63 elite/boss. However its still good to stack up on a little more, since much of the warrior dps comes from white dmg, aswell white swings gives rage and hit strengthen your crit cap. Your chance to miss against lvl 60 mobs will be 3,8% or 4% rounded up.

Calculation:
Human base sword skill 305 + Edgemasters 7 skill = 312 Sword Skill
lvl63 mob = 315 Defense
skilldiff = 312 - 315 = -3
(-3 > -10) therefore
missChance -= -3 * 0.1
missChance -= -0.3
missChance = 5 - (-0.3) = 5.3

Your Glancing blows which happens 40% of the time will take 97.42% of what a normal white hit would do against lvl 63 elites/bosses.

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except that you can't bring down the yellow hit even with all the weapon skill, we had logs of people using edgemaster and missing with 8%

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7 hours ago, sarro said:

except that you can't bring down the yellow hit even with all the weapon skill, we had logs of people using edgemaster and missing with 8%

Was it logs of AQ20? Did it include Kurinaxx?

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6 hours ago, Omakaroni said:

Ye I heard some in my guild talk about that aswell, seems wierd..

 

8 minutes ago, Storfan said:

Was it logs of AQ20? Did it include Kurinaxx?

Do either of you know the accurate proc rates for this server?

Curious to know which sword is better and that would come down to proc rate. (for BWL patch/non-human rogue)

MH: Chromatically Tempered Sword or Vis'kag the Bloodletter.

OF: Maladath 

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8 часов назад, sarro сказал:

except that you can't bring down the yellow hit even with all the weapon skill, we had logs of people using edgemaster and missing with 8%

Thats because some bosses gets more than 315 def.

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1 час назад, TTL сказал:

 

Do either of you know the accurate proc rates for this server?

Curious to know which sword is better and that would come down to proc rate. (for BWL patch/non-human rogue)

MH: Chromatically Tempered Sword or Vis'kag the Bloodletter.

OF: Maladath 

according to math, they are ~identical for rogues. So smart rogue will use the one drops first.

But CTS looks cooler, provides you stamina and not RNG-based, but still there is lots items much more important for rogues(DFT,AQ40 belt/gloves etc). So you don't want to spend lots of DKP for CTS if you aren't full AQ40 bis.

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Also needed to say that all spreadsheet data for warriors are highly depends on player playstyle. Heroic Strike "uptime" will ruin any calculations

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1 hour ago, Sulf said:

according to math, they are ~identical for rogues. So smart rogue will use the one drops first.

But CTS looks cooler, provides you stamina and not RNG-based, but still there is lots items much more important for rogues(DFT,AQ40 belt/gloves etc). So you don't want to spend lots of DKP for CTS if you aren't full AQ40 bis.

So the proc averages out with the higher top end of CTS? What about if you factor in the vis'kag proc with a 8/8 set of bloodfang, I imagine they help each other proc?

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1 hour ago, Sulf said:

Thats because some bosses gets more than 315 def.

I thought all 63+ bosses had 315def? Armor values and resistances may vary though. I'm honestly not sure, can anyone confirm/deny this? Also, the hit provided by weapon skill should only apply to higher lvl targets 61+ like weapon skill does, isnt that correct? What I mean is, the +hit from weapon skill should have ZERO effect on lvl60 targets and bellow?

1 hour ago, Sulf said:

according to math, they are ~identical for rogues. So smart rogue will use the one drops first.

But CTS looks cooler, provides you stamina and not RNG-based, but still there is lots items much more important for rogues(DFT,AQ40 belt/gloves etc). So you don't want to spend lots of DKP for CTS if you aren't full AQ40 bis.

If there's math there must also be someone who's tested and confirmed an actual proc-rate? If so then the math should be fairly simple.

1 hour ago, Sulf said:

Also needed to say that all spreadsheet data for warriors are highly depends on player playstyle. Heroic Strike "uptime" will ruin any calculations

Yes indeed, that goes without saying. Spreadsheets will assume optimal conditions are met.

33 minutes ago, TTL said:

So the proc averages out with the higher top end of CTS? What about if you factor in the vis'kag proc with a 8/8 set of bloodfang, I imagine they help each other proc?

To know this we'd need to know the weapons proc-rate, which isnt hard to test with DPSmate and some time.

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9 minutes ago, Storfan said:

I thought all 63+ bosses had 315def? Armor values and resistances may vary though. I'm honestly not sure, can anyone confirm/deny this? Also, the hit provided by weapon skill should only apply to higher lvl targets 61+ like weapon skill does, isnt that correct? What I mean is, the +hit from weapon skill should have ZERO effect on lvl60 targets and bellow?

If there's math there must also be someone who's tested and confirmed an actual proc-rate? If so then the math should be fairly simple.

Yes indeed, that goes without saying. Spreadsheets will assume optimal conditions are met.

To know this we'd need to know the weapons proc-rate, which isnt hard to test with DPSmate and some time.

I've heard it's around 6%.

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