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Omakaroni

[Spreadsheet] Warrior NAXX/AQ BiS.

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Storf, yes they should be 315, but I noticed that the only boss I had misses (with 9hit and 312 weapon skill) is Flamegor, so I didnt found any better idea than higher def values.

Actual proc rate for Viskag is ~5.6-6%

 

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1 час назад, TTL сказал:

I've heard it's around 6%.

Yeah, its ~6%, that makes Viskag ~same as CTS for rogues(maybe few points of dps lower if world buffed), since proc is ~11-18 dps(depends on player's crit chance)

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Since the project is opensource, if you check the world database from github and compare... say Onyxia and Nefarian. They both have min/max levels of 63, the same armor (4691) and I cannot see any other column representing defence in any other way (line 860-862). Can't find any three digit value they have in common that could represent defence. Same with Flamegor by the way.

Of course it might be that its located in some other table, but as far as I can tell at glance (with some quick ctrl+f searches)... all bosses have 315 defence due to their level.

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19 hours ago, Sulf said:

Storf, yes they should be 315, but I noticed that the only boss I had misses (with 9hit and 312 weapon skill) is Flamegor, so I didnt found any better idea than higher def values.

Actual proc rate for Viskag is ~5.6-6%

 

 

19 hours ago, Sulf said:

Yeah, its ~6%, that makes Viskag ~same as CTS for rogues(maybe few points of dps lower if world buffed), since proc is ~11-18 dps(depends on player's crit chance)

If we assume Viskag have 6% procrate the approximate DPS added to the weapon by it would look like this:

((240*0.06)/2.6) = 5,538461538461538 DPS

The add the fact that the proc can crit, which will scale with consumables/worldbuffs and that the proc (supposedly) generate rage aswell, giving it an Ironfoe-esqe dimension.

 

EDIT: To clarify. This approximate calculation does not take into account haste, crit etc which will increase the power of the proc quite dramatically under certain circumstances.

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LET skillDiff =(attackerWeaponSkill - victimDefenseSkill).

This may be negative depending on weapon skill bonuses, and the levels of both the attacker and victim. All calculations take the sign into account; make sure to include it in any formulae.

MELEE MISS CHANCE:

SINGLE WEAPON BASE MISS CHANCE:

=[5.0 base]%

=5.0%

DUALWIELDING BASE MISS CHANCE:

=[5.0 base + 19.0 Dualwielding penalty]%

=24.0%

PVP:

increased/decreased by [0.04*skillDiff]%

PVE:

(IF attacker is more than 10 skillDiff under victim) increased by [2.0 + (skillDiff + 10) * 0.4]%

(otherwise) increased/decreased by [0.1*skillDiff]%

= 28% (with 300 weapon skill against a 315 def/level 63/boss target)

= 24.5% (with 310 weapon skill against a 315 def/level 63/boss target)

= 24% (with 315 weapon skill against a 315 def/level 63/boss target)

ALWAYS CAPPED AT MAX 60%

[SOURCE: https://github.com/elysium-project/server/blob/development/src/game/Objects/Unit.cpp, line 3071]

MELEE DODGE CHANCE:

PVP:

=[victimDodgePercentage]%

PVE:

=[5.0 base - 0.04*skillDiff]%

[SOURCE: https://github.com/elysium-project/server/blob/development/src/game/Objects/Unit.cpp, line 2519]

GLANCING BLOW:

CHANCE TO GLANCE:

=[10.0 + ((victimDefenseSkill - attackerBaseWeaponSkill)*2)]%

where attackerBaseWeaponSkill is capped at attackerMaxSkillValueForLevel=(5*level)

=10% chance against a 300 def/level 60 mob

=40% chance against a 315 def/level 63/boss mob

[SOURCE: https://github.com/elysium-project/server/blob/development/src/game/Objects/Unit.cpp, line 2519]

GLANCE PERCENT:

https://puu.sh/vQSJT/cc8b20cabf.png

ATTACK-RESULT ROLL ORDER:

1.MISS

2.DODGE

3.PARRY

4.GLANCING BLOW

5.BLOCK

6.CRIT

7.NORMAL

The outcome of an attack is determined by a roll of 1-10000; representing a percentage out of 100 accurate to 2 decimal places (1.00-100.00). Because Misses are prioritized over Crits, your +crit is not representative of your actual chance to crit:

[Real chance to crit] <= [Displayed +crit%]

This is what’s known as “crit being pushed off the table”

Gathered info from guildie/Sheet by another

except that you can't bring down the yellow hit even with all the weapon skill, we had logs of people using edgemaster and missing with 8%

Because the weaponskill affects the white hits only.

 

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3 часа назад, Storfan сказал:

 

If we assume Viskag have 6% procrate the approximate DPS added to the weapon by it would look like this:

((240*0.06)/2.6) = 5,538461538461538 DPS

The add the fact that the proc can crit, which will scale with consumables/worldbuffs and that the proc (supposedly) generate rage aswell, giving it an Ironfoe-esqe dimension.

You forgot about 30% haste Flurry/SnD + proc from abils + extra attacks.  

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15 hours ago, Sulf said:

You forgot about 30% haste Flurry/SnD + proc from abils + extra attacks.  

I made the choice to leave it out any modifiers for the sake of simplicity but yes, it does make the proc seem less powerful than it really is. I'll edit my above post.

EDIT: If we assume for the sake of argument that you by average produce 1 hit per second (every GCD basically) then the proc would be worth thrice that of my above posted formula.

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On 30 maj 2017 at 11:51 PM, sarro said:

except that you can't bring down the yellow hit even with all the weapon skill, we had logs of people using edgemaster and missing with 8%

I have missed Execute with 9% hit on Firemaw.

Now, from what I have heard, even though you are "hit capped" you still always have 1% miss chance whatever you do. However I can't confirm this. 

On top of that, does anyone really have proof of weapon skill NOT affecting %miss chance of YELLOW HITS from SOURCE CODE? I don't care what someone says on a wowwiki, or what someone has claimed, we need proof from Source code since all that matters is what this server has coded.

 

Edited by vindruvor

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1 minute ago, vindruvor said:

I have missed Execute with 9% hit on Firemaw.

Now, from what I have heard, even though you are "hit capped" you still always have 1% miss chance whatever you do. However I can't confirm this. 

On top of that, does anyone really have proof of weapon skill not affecting %miss chance of yellow hits from SOURCE CODE? I don't care what someone says on a wowwiki, or what someone has claimed, we need proof from Source code since all that matters is what this server has coded.

 

The source code for this project has been open source and up on Github for a couple of months now.

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Yes I know, I am replying to the claim by netherfrost that weapon skill does not affect YELLOW HIT %miss chance. Where has he read that? 

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All I can see in the formulas in this post & netherfrost's is that Base Miss Chance gets reduced by +wep skill. Isn't base miss chance <=> yellow miss chance? Or what did I miss?

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20 часов назад, Netherfrost сказал:

 

Because the weaponskill affects the white hits only.

 

Not really. 

1. Equip any weapon with 1/300 skill

2. Attack lvl60 mob with any spell (Hamstring!)

3. Cry

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1 hour ago, Sulf said:

Not really. 

1. Equip any weapon with 1/300 skill

2. Attack lvl60 mob with any spell (Hamstring!)

3. Cry

That is actually a good point. I too thought the +hit from weapon skill only affected white hits (like the glancing blows) but when you put it like that it is quite obvious that it affects yellows aswell. Your hamstring will indeed miss with 1/300 skill.

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Yes, the same way that you gain hit from 303-305. The formula isnt the same all the way. What I said naturally only applies in the range of 300-315.

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Well ye, as long as it specifically doesnt say that +wep skill only affects white hits in this manner, I will assume that yellow hits miss chance are affected in the exact same way as white hits.

 

For those who want can dig deeper in the Source Code and see if yellow hit gets affected in another manner than white hits or not (maybe yellow hits dont get as much hit as white hits, but still gets a little(?))

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One thing I would want to find out is if it is true that you always have 1% miss chance whatever you do (even if you are 100% hit capped).  That could explain why yellow hits can be missed if you have at least 6% hit and +5 wep skill.

If it is not true then we can more easily determine wether +wep skill affects yellow hits miss chance or not.. I guess

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I think I spent 2 solid days going through the calculations in the spreadsheet and doing it my own way to make sure everything was accurate and then fixing stuff like heroic strike, rage efficiency etc. I spent a lot of time after I finished determining optimal execute rotations, if slam is viable and making bis lists. Weapon skill formulas differ between servers so I didn't bother about that, anyway you can only polish the turd of the original spreadsheet so far until making a new one would make more sense. I planned on reworking landsoul's wotlk sheet, but I don't have the time or a motivation. I thought no one would go through the formulas I wrote in detail, but here we are.

Btw the miss chance formulas should differentiate between base weapon skill (determined by level and debuffs) and +skill from equipment (0.04% hit per point). Perhaps it's just butchered on this server and +skill on items are being treated the same as level differences or debuffs, or it could be more likely that there's more going on in the source that your guildmate missed. Make sure he looks at the white attack tables.

 

Yellow attacks are on a different two roll table (think of them as melee spells), weapon skill shouldn't affect this. Basemiss should only take into account base weapon skill, then later miss calculations on the white attack table can take into account +skill from equipment, 19% DW miss, + hit% from gear/buffs. While yellow attack table just uses basemiss with hit% added.

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3 hours ago, vindruvor said:

Execute: "Requires melee weapon" :o

 

Execute is handled by the elysium core as an ordinary melee ability that requires no melee weapon. It doesn't benefit from weapon skill bonuses and can't trigger any main hand procs.

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8 hours ago, vido said:

I think I spent 2 solid days going through the calculations in the spreadsheet and doing it my own way to make sure everything was accurate and then fixing stuff like heroic strike, rage efficiency etc. I spent a lot of time after I finished determining optimal execute rotations, if slam is viable and making bis lists. Weapon skill formulas differ between servers so I didn't bother about that, anyway you can only polish the turd of the original spreadsheet so far until making a new one would make more sense. I planned on reworking landsoul's wotlk sheet, but I don't have the time or a motivation. I thought no one would go through the formulas I wrote in detail, but here we are.

Btw the miss chance formulas should differentiate between base weapon skill (determined by level and debuffs) and +skill from equipment (0.04% hit per point). Perhaps it's just butchered on this server and +skill on items are being treated the same as level differences or debuffs, or it could be more likely that there's more going on in the source that your guildmate missed. Make sure he looks at the white attack tables.

 

Yellow attacks are on a different two roll table (think of them as melee spells), weapon skill shouldn't affect this. Basemiss should only take into account base weapon skill, then later miss calculations on the white attack table can take into account +skill from equipment, 19% DW miss, + hit% from gear/buffs. While yellow attack table just uses basemiss with hit% added.

There is a lot of "should" and "should not" in these arguments. Even though it should be in a certain way we still got to fetch the Source Code and see what it says. If we can identify how this server has coded their white hit & yellow attack tables, we can then argue wether it's correct or not. 

Unfortunately I'm a noob on Reading Source Code so I gotta rely on other people finding stuff :>

As I understand it, your last paragraph isnt confirmed by the Source Code (not saying you are wrong or not, but it's nice for everyone to have it 100% confirmed it works like that on Anathema). 

 

Hopefully someone can find something in the Source Code that can say how +wep skill affects miss chance of yellow hits.  

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16 hours ago, Zarant said:

Spells that doesn't require melee weapons get no benefit from weapon skill at all. That includes shield slam, shield bash, bloodthirst and execute.

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/blob/master/src/game/Objects/Unit.cpp#L2777

Does that mean that all yellow hits that Require a melee weapon (except execute) will benefit from +wep skill in the exact same way as white hits in regards to hit chance? 

Or does it only simply state that they benefit from + wep skill in regards to hit chance, but not necessarily in the same way as for white hits?

 

 

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6 hours ago, vindruvor said:

Does that mean that all yellow hits that Require a melee weapon (except execute) will benefit from +wep skill in the exact same way as white hits in regards to hit chance? 

Or does it only simply state that they benefit from + wep skill in regards to hit chance, but not necessarily in the same way as for white hits?

 

 

Your first assumption is correct, it does affect special abilities the same way it affects regular melee hits

Source:
https://github.com/elysium-project/server/blob/master/src/game/Objects/Unit.cpp#L2724

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Thanks for the link to the source. After seeing that mess with my own eyes, looks like I'll have to add my own 2 cents. I'll start with hit.

Here are roughly the correct formulas http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Miss?oldid=356356 It wasn't written to the last detail, so you'll have to put some brain cells to use to figure out where bonus weapon skills come in. Looking at hit formulas that were given by blizzard in later expansions is a good start if anyone is interested.

Miss chance for player/mob attacking player: 5% - (BaseSkilldif + BonusSkill)*0.04  where BaseSkilldif is (attack - defense rating) and BonusSkill is the sum of attack rating bonuses from equipment.

 

Miss chance for player/mob attacking mob:

  1. If (BaseSkilldif <-10): 5% - BaseSkilldif*0.2 - BonusSkill*0.04
  2. Else: 5% - BaseSkilldif*0.1 - BonusSkill*0.04

Notice that bonus skill from gear is only affected by a 0.04 modifier. In 2.0.1 patchnotes only the glancing effect was nerfed for weapon skills, so the logical conclusion is that the miss component of bonus weapon skill must have had a small modifier at best (0.04).

 

Miss chance for player/mob attacking a level 9 or less mob: 5%*(MobLvl*0.1)

Dual Wielding adds a flate rate of 19% miss to the white attack table.

 

Now on to glancing blows, here's another page from the same source (Beaza) http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Weapon_skill?oldid=349298 . Ignore everything apart from the glancing blow section, the rest is incorrect information from older revisions before Beaza's edit. These formulas given from back in 2006, agree entirely with the information that we've only since learned on glancing blows in TBC/WoTLK. The differentiation of caster class glancing blows was kept until patch 3.3 in WoTLK http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/672431-Patch-3-3-Patch-Notes-Update. Also WoTLK glancing formulas based on maximum and minimum damage factors are given in Landsoul's compendium.

 

Let's distill the formulas from the source:

Chance of a glancing blow occurring:

Melee classes: 10% - 2%*BaseSkillDif.

Mages, Warlocks and Priests:

  1. Levels 1-10: 0%
  2. Levels 11-29: (Lvl - 10) * 3%
  3. Level 30 and higher: 60%

 

Percent damage dealt by a glancing blow is randomized between a maximum and minimum factor:

Melee classes (Skilldif = base+bonus defense - base+bonus attack rating) :

  1. Maximum Damage Factor: 0.2 <= 1.2 - 0.03 *Skilldif <= 0.99
  2. Minimum Damage Factor: 0.01 <= 1.3 - 0.05 *Skilldif <= 0.91

Casters:

  1. Maximum Damage Factor: 0.2 <= (1.2 - 0.03 *Skilldif) - 0.3 <= 0.99
  2. Minimum Damage Factor: 0.01 <= (1.3 - 0.05 *Skilldif) - 0.7 <= 0.6

The average reduction is (max+min)/2.

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Where is this formula from? I cant find it any of the Sources your provided:

 

Miss chance for player/mob attacking mob:

If (BaseSkilldif <= -10) 5% - BaseSkilldif*0.2 - BonusSkill*0.04 

If ( -10 < BaseSkilldif <= 0) 5% - BaseSkilldif*0.1 - BonusSkill*0.04

If (0 < BaseSkilldif) 5% - BonusSkill*0.04(count negative miss chance as +hit)

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