Alternative to defense cap?

[Nirinia 0]

I just had another look at Armilus's tank guide and I noticed something about the hit table. Parry/dodge/block are all added before crit/crush/hit. I was wondering if it was theoretically possible to stack enough avoidance gear to become passively uncrushable. Also, if it is then would it actually be worth going for since then you would have all your rage to play with and sink into your normal rotation. (ofc I doubt its possible in vanilla but I did hear about rogues tanking in tbc through dodge)

[Overtime 6]

Not really versus fast hitting bosses but you could get block cap with shield block up.

I remember the untouchable rogue videos but you can't pull the same thing with warrior. He's the reason they added DR to avoidance in TBC.

Kinda same as how few ferals figured using resilience to get double def cap for Ulduar Thorim to solo tank it (at least what I did). Then they nerfed resilience in PvE, good times.

[Garun 9]

First off, being at defense cap does NOT make you uncrushable. It will only make you uncrittable. Second, I don't think it's even possible to get the avoidance to be passively uncrushable in vanilla.

[Kolmar 3]

as you said, a bosses attack table against you goes miss - parry - dodge - block - crit - crush - hit, in that order.

according to Armilus' guide, the base miss chance against you is 6%, so you would need to get a combined total of 94% from Dodge/Parry/Block to become passively immune to the rest of the attack table (Crits/Crushing Blows/Hits) ...which is simply impossible. 

[Nirinia 0]

No I meant uncrushable, as in no attack can crush as its been pushed off the table, also I'm thinking it is possible as a guildy has 66% as it stands with no scarab or t2 belt. It'll probably take a weird combination of gear though

[Kolmar 3]

6 hours ago, Nirinia said:

No I meant uncrushable, as in no attack can crush as its been pushed off the table, also I'm thinking it is possible as a guildy has 66% as it stands with no scarab or t2 belt. It'll probably take a weird combination of gear though

yeah, and to be uncrushable you have to get a total of 100% in all of the options before crushing blow to push it off the table (miss/parry/dodge/block/crit). if you manage to completely push off crushing blows, then you also completely push off normal hits, because crushing blows are calculated before normal hits. as i said in my earlier post, the attack table calculates exactly in this order: miss -> parry -> dodge -> block -> crit -> crush -> hit

lets say for example that you hack the game and get 100% parry, that means there won't ever be any dodging/blocking/critting/crushing/hitting, as it's already been calculated at 100% when it reached parry, as the order is miss -> parry -> dodge -> block -> crit -> crush -> hit

the ONLY possible way to push both crits and crushing blows off the attack table is to get a total of 100% in miss -> parry -> dodge -> block.

[Undertanker 88]

Shield block 1/3.

Mobs with an.instant attack and or trash will consume your shield block charges faster than the ability will be usable again, leaving you open to crush/crit depending if u are at 440 or not, if you are then just a crush.

[Nirinia 0]

Again you guys are missing my original question. I was asking if there was a combination of gear which could be used to raise avoidance to 94% without the use of shield block, thereby removing crit/crush/hit from the enemy's attack table. please stop with the dancing around my question and give me a straight answer.

[femdead 0]

your question was answered

[Nirinia 0]

ok so if its impossible then how high is it possible to get?

[blisslfutz 0]

You can look for this by yourself. Just search for all items with avoidance, select the item with the highest avoidance for a specific slot and sum up these numbers

[Nobo 1]

its possible to go for 102,4% (miss+dodge+parry+block) without shield block when naxx gear is optainable but you would sacrifice too much stats for it.

you would have to stack block items since it mostly has the highest "avoidance" stats and still you'd need

an agi elixier + hakkar heart buff + blessings to reach crush immunity

 

btw as far as is know every npc has a 5% miss chance which is increased/decreased by enemy defense skill or own weapon skill

i made a forum post for npc attack table maybe we can discuss or you can correct me there if im wrong:

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/50894-npc-hit-table/

 

[Undertanker 88]

17 hours ago, Nobo said:

its possible to go for 102,4% (miss+dodge+parry+block) without shield block when naxx gear is optainable

No it's not.

[Nobo 1]

im sure i havnt used the best items for avoidance or all consumeables/buffs out there - please correct me if you find some mistakes

Spoiler

Warrior crush immunity (100% avoidance) against a lvl 63 npc (boss)

 

items: 

http://realmplayers.com/CharacterDesigner.aspx?data=syF4HC

block + dodge + parry from items = 33%  

+ 2% block from set bonus +1% from ring set bonus +2% block from shield enchant +1% dodge from cloak enchant= 39% 

+4,55% dodge from agility(91x0,05) = 43,55% 

+20,32% from def (127x0,04x4(miss, parry, dodge, block) = 63,87% from items 

  

base stats against a lv63 (boss lvl) npc + talents 

4,4% parry + 4,4% block + 4,4% miss + 4,65% dodge (NE=85 base agi x0,05  - 15 x 0,04 + 1% racial)

= 17,85% from base stats  

+5% block Shield Spezialization +5% parry Deflection   

+10 def Anticipation = 1,6% 

=29,45% from base stats + talents 

  

buffs + useables: 

+16 agi motw +25 agi greater agility +25 Ground Scorpok Assay +10 Grilled Squid  => 76agi = 3,8% 

+10% agi BoK = 252 (91 +85 +76) x 0,1 => 25,2agi= 1,26% 

+15% agi Zandalar = 277,2 x 0,15 => 41,58agi = 2,079% 

=7,139% from buffs 

 

63,87% from items + 29,45% from base stats/talents + 7,139% from buffs +2% Insect Swarm

=> 102,459%

 

miss chance: 11,88%

4,4% base miss chance + 5,48% from 137 def (127 items + 10 talents) +2% Insect Swarm

 

parry: 14,88%

4,4% base parry, + 5,48% from 137 def + 5% talents

 

dodge: 29,819%

15,939% from agi {[(91 items +85 base agi +76 consumeables) x 1,1(10% bok)] x1,15 (15% zandalar)} x0,05

+4,88% from def [(127 items + 10 talens - 15 boss lvl) x0,04] +9% from flat%dodge on items

 

block: 44,88%

4,4% base block + 30% from items + 5,48% from 137 def + 5% talents

 

attack table for lvl 63 npc against us (there's an avoidance difference - still searching for the error)

11,88% miss ->14,88% parry  -> 29,552% dodge -> 43,688%(44,88%) block = 100% (101,192%)

 

worth of stats for avoidance in %:

1 def = 0,04% miss, parry, dodge, block = 0,16%

1 agi = 0,05% dodge x 1,1%(BoK) x 1,15(Zandalar) = 0,06325%

 

 

[flowqz 34]

chromaggus cloak

t3 ring

[Nobo 1]

chromaggus cloak gives 2% avoidance while cryptfiend silk cloak gives 2,12%

at the t3 ring you're right - i t gives 2,6% while angelista's touch is at 1,96%

ill edit my post, thanks for the reply!

[flowqz 34]

21 minutes ago, Nobo said:

chromaggus cloak gives 2% avoidance while cryptfiend silk cloak gives 2,12%

at the t3 ring you're right - i t gives 2,6% while angelista's touch is at 1,96%

ill edit my post, thanks for the reply!

7def results in 1.12% avoid?

[Nobo 1]

yeah 1 def gives 0,04% miss, parry, dodge, block

so its 7x 0,04 x 4 = 1,12%

[Wericia 1]

Sickle of Unyielding Strength should yield a slightly better result for this purpose than maladath, 4 defense and 6 agility.

[Agrillos 0]

+15 Agility on Gloves is better than +3 Defense.

[Nobo 1]

thanks guys - totally forgot about the 15 agi gloves enchant coming with aq >.<

Sickle of Unyielding Strength = 1,0195% with 10% bok and 15% zandalar (zg heart buff) xD

gonna edit again

[Undertanker 88]

1% dodge enchant cloak.

Blessed Qiraji War Hammer has more mitigation + avoidance than Sickle of Unyielding Strength

T3 Helm will provide more than helm of domination.

[Nobo 1]

found a mistake i made - forgot to remove the 15 weapon skill the lvl 63 npc has more than we got base defense skill from the base dodge chance

5,25% - 15 x0,04 = 4,65% base dodge chance

 

[Nobo 1]

edited 1% dodge cloak enchant, Blessed Qiraji War Hammer, Dreadnaught Helmet to the post

ty for the reply

[Nobo 1]

added Overlord's Crimson Band + Overlord's Onyx Band

made a mistake somewhere in my attempt showing the %avoidance stat by stat by adding up the numbers i guess :(

havnt found the error yet, maybe one of you guys is able to find it!!