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g2nightmare

Definitive Warlock Guide

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Can someone explain the best in slot spreadsheets? Does the "1" indicate that it is the best of all the choices for each slot? Or is it ranked from best to worst from top to bottom?

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I was wondering if that's what that meant... but I just find it hard to believe a random world BoE is better than T1. o_O

I can't help but wonder if that is legit or not without some sort of video testing it. Not in a provacative way, but that is my natural instinct when I see that because most videos I see that are Pre-Raid BiS, they're all blues from 5-10 man dungeons. 

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Well, pre-raid BiS doesn't include T1 because T1 is from raids.

Also, T1 is pretty bad for some classes and there are plenty of BoE items that are better.

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how about engineering as prof?

sorry just realised its told its for pvp

Edited by koseku

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Hey Great guide!! im new to the class and this is just what i was looking for!

I have a question tho, what pet do you use with SM / Ruin spec?

 

thanks!

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On 2/24/2017 at 9:29 AM, Accessdenied said:

I was wondering if that's what that meant... but I just find it hard to believe a random world BoE is better than T1. o_O
 

There are level 50+ greens that are better than Tier 1. Warlock Tier 1 is maximum garbage. 

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On 3/14/2017 at 0:07 AM, Jaylix said:

Hey Great guide!! im new to the class and this is just what i was looking for!

I have a question tho, what pet do you use with SM / Ruin spec?

 

thanks!

imp

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В 06.12.2016 в 03:39, g2nightmare сказал:

For leveling, I recommend following Joanna's guide,

I wonder if this link is still legit? I noticed the blood elf section there so isn't it for TBC?

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On 2017-02-06 at 9:07 AM, Captncold said:

So I've been using the recommended method of grinding, and it works pretty decently, but the one issue I've been consistently running into is that I rarely have issues with mana myself, but my voidwalker is always oom after a few mobs, because he needs to be constantly using torment to keep up aggro.

 

Is there something I'm missing? Should I be doing something else?

You have to toggle taunt and manage the voidwalkers mana as best as you can, I can't really explain it after not having played vanilla for about half a year, but I ran with a macro to toggle it on / off and abused the bug that allows the voidwalker to channel the healing spell while moving / getting hit to gain aggro and heal him at the same time, it's more mana efficient, assuming he gets some healing than actually taunting and allows more aggro upfront, meaning he can move on earlier to the next mob.

It's something you'll have to practice, I know 48-49 was particularly rough for me the first time around while grinding nagas in Aszhara, but they also had something else that was annoying me that I can't seem to recall.

On 2017-04-10 at 3:29 PM, Beta said:

I wonder if this link is still legit? I noticed the blood elf section there so isn't it for TBC?

Pretty sure there were close to 0 changes from vanilla to TBC in questing or leveling, they reduced the xp needed by WotLK or late WotLK.

On 2017-01-26 at 8:57 PM, Larsen said:

I love the disgustingly elitist "I give up on you all!" because some people have a different opinion, backed up by extensive examples against nothing but "this is the best, you suck if you don't think so." Really shows you what some people are like. You don't even try to explain what it is you think somehow makes it so that you kill faster and avoid pet mana/aggro issues. Just insult everyone who doesn't have the same opinion as yours.

Even specced for VW aggro (an investment of eight talent points that otherwise do basically nothing for your leveling efficiency), the VW can't hold aggro from anything beyond two dots and wand. It cannot maintain its mana when chain-grinding mobs, it's a self-evident fact. Even if you have it stop taunting when the mob is at 30%, it'll run out of mana after like five back-to-back fights. The drain spec lets you use full dots if you want, plus the significantly higher DPS of draining over wanding, and you have unlimited health and mana plus you never have to worry about pet aggro. Nobody has yet provided any actual arguments for how the VW route is "much faster."

Besides, even on a server of this population, getting ganked while grinding happens relatively rarely in most areas. Maybe three times on the way to 60 have I been in a situation where having the VW out instead of succubus would have made any difference at all. If you're not an idiot trying to grind in STV, you just don't get ganked often enough for it to be a serious issue. Succubus saved me several times as well in situations like higher-levels ganking where VW shield would have done nothing more than make it take five seconds longer to die.

I tried speccing VW at 55 because I was bored, and it was terrible in comparison. Kills were slower and I had downtime between mobs because of pet mana. Dots would run out when mobs were at like 15% hp and I'd have to re-dot in order to get the kill with drain soul. Specced back to dark pact drain after half a level, I see nothing in the VW spec that makes it better for leveling.

So by actual proof, have you read http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14455? Also Botmaster5 almost beat the defacto old world record using this build, as evidence by his screenshot earlier in this thread, I firmly believe I can beat it on an empty server as well, but as I'm too much in love with PvP and don't happen to have a live empty server at hands, along with 4 days worth of my life to spare, I haven't tried it.

Besides the fact, I've done the math, and even if we ignore the fact that mobs are meleeing you for pretty sick numbers (close to 0 armor while leveling, even dipping in to negative armor against some mobs), vw did more damage for the same resources, while also having more tools at their disposal. Search the old Nostalrius forums for the math, I think I posted it over there. 

As far as "I give up on you all!", it's because we had this discussion over on the Nostalrius forum twice a week, with people actually listening to facts and not finding a reason to argue about a spec which is less efficient. Another reason I gave up was because I didn't have the time to devote to vanilla anymore and therefore have no real reason to keep up with these forums, besides the occasional topic where I can offer advice.

On 2016-12-31 at 10:14 PM, maha099 said:

Here's what the guy who made the build said:

"Siphon Life makes a huge difference in your ability to kill multiple mobs at once. Grim Reach and Fel Concentration are huge in low level PvP. You also get Nightfall for burst dmg.

After that you go down Demo for a lot more survivability through 15% Stam, better HS and Fel Dom. Stronger Voidwalker and Master Summoner are pretty huge - double Void sac is pretty much a free win against anything except Priests and Shamans. You finish it off with DD at 50+ by going Destro."

*serious necro*

First recorded post I've seen about it:

http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=13075

I'm not sure what build you're talking about, but that doesn't sound like me, and seeing how the first record I've ever seen of the imp drain soul -> imp vw -> affi build is my post on the Nostalrius forum, I'll have to assume you're quoting me, could you provide a source?

Edited by Numi
Added quote and reply to maha099.

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Sorry if this has been said, But in my opinion the trinket from quest is sorta a waste would it not? I mean the 30 min CD is sorta crappy. I would go with the staff more so than the trinket. But please indulge me if I am mistaken. The level 31 quest that is mentioned in the prerequisites. 

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Is there a "cap" on how many SM/Ruin or any Warlocks who are allowed to put corruption for their targets? I heard corruption kicks each other all the time when other classes are able to do their debuffs as well

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On 2/23/2017 at 8:03 PM, Accessdenied said:

Can someone explain the best in slot spreadsheets? Does the "1" indicate that it is the best of all the choices for each slot? Or is it ranked from best to worst from top to bottom?

The 1 indicates that you're wearing 1 of that item.

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On 18.4.2017 at 5:43 PM, Neversmiled said:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#IE0bARboVocxZxx0z

No discuss, without imp mana battery - lvling is not fast.

I can confirm this. At lvl40, spec into Darc Pact, then work towards Shadow Burn. Personally i choosed "Cataclysm" instead of "Improved Shadow Bolt". Shadow Burn helps a lot while grinding. See also my post: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#IE0bARboVocxZxx0z

I tried several leveling builds. Soul Link, Demonic Sacrifice, the "standard build", etc., but none of them is so fast, efficient and fun as "Darc Pact" & "Shadow Burn".

 

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Hey, total noob when it comes to locks so I would like to get some clarity in what ppl mean by "dot them up".

I get that corruption is the most important spell, and that CoA is situational when the mob takes more than the whole duration to kill.

So I cast corruption, then what? Immolate? Life drain? Shadow bolt?

So far I have been casting corruption>CoA>immolate and then life drain. Usually for me the mobs last way longer than the first corruption, sometimes even the CoA. Reading this thread gives me the impression that people go Corruption.. aaand then wand? What am I missing?

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18 hours ago, Mutley said:

Hey, total noob when it comes to locks so I would like to get some clarity in what ppl mean by "dot them up".

I get that corruption is the most important spell, and that CoA is situational when the mob takes more than the whole duration to kill.

So I cast corruption, then what? Immolate? Life drain? Shadow bolt?

So far I have been casting corruption>CoA>immolate and then life drain. Usually for me the mobs last way longer than the first corruption, sometimes even the CoA. Reading this thread gives me the impression that people go Corruption.. aaand then wand? What am I missing?

Some short answers:

Immolate until you'll get Siphon Life and/or +ShadowDamage Gear (Shadowweave Set)

Never cast hard a Shadow Bolt, if you dotted the mob before. In dungeons with short living trash mobs, only casting Shadow Bolts is valid.

Use your instant Shadow Bolts (Nightfall) if you have enough mana.

A good wand does more damage as Shadow Bolts until ~lvl30.

With void out: Beware of too much Drain Life/Siphon Life, cause both spells generates a lot of aggro and the void aggro is simply shit after ~lvl35 (or so).

At 40 respec to Darc Pact (see my posts before) and use CoA, Corruption, Siphon Life. Then Drain Life or Fear and dot another mob.

 

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1 hour ago, JanK said:

Some short answers:

Immolate until you'll get Siphon Life and/or +ShadowDamage Gear (Shadowweave Set)

Never cast hard a Shadow Bolt, if you dotted the mob before. In dungeons with short living trash mobs, only casting Shadow Bolts is valid.

Use your instant Shadow Bolts (Nightfall) if you have enough mana.

A good wand does more damage as Shadow Bolts until ~lvl30.

With void out: Beware of too much Drain Life/Siphon Life, cause both spells generates a lot of aggro and the void aggro is simply shit after ~lvl35 (or so).

At 40 respec to Darc Pact (see my posts before) and use CoA, Corruption, Siphon Life. Then Drain Life or Fear and dot another mob.

 

Thanks!

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On 1/18/2017 at 6:41 AM, Numi said:

[ ... ]

Early levels, you're slowing down by level 17 without Drain Soul, I tried it out on the relaunch of Nostalrius and by 17 I was losing seconds on every single mob I pulled.

[ ... ]

 

I have got to wonder about your focus on seconds per kill. Are you dotting the mob, then spamming shadow bolts until it's dead? And if so ... Why?

When I play an affliction warlock, I'll send in the VW, dot up the mob. then send the VW on towards the next mob. No shadow bolts, no wands. Just dot 'em up and let 'em die. Yes, the time it takes for a mob to die is a few seconds longer than what it would take if I were to toss off shadow bolts. But from my point of view, the mana I spend on a shadow bolt is wasted mana because the DoTs ticking away are going to kill the mob anyway, assuming you allow the DoTs enough time to do their job. The only real limit to how fast I can kill is the GCD limiting how fast I can dot things up. As far as I'm concerned, a mob has three states.

1. Alive - I haven't done anything to it ... yet.

2. Dead, but still moving - It has dots and as far as I'm concerned, it's dead, it just doesn't realize it yet.

3. Dead and lootable. - Finally still enough for me to loot it.

And from the tone of this thread, it seems that's there's entirely too many warlocks that are afraid of mobs that are in state 2 and are wasting mana using shadow bolts to speed up its transition to state 3 when what they should do is find another mob in state 1 and move that mob over to state 2.

So why care if a mob takes 30 seconds to die? The real metric to measure is how long you take between starting combat between mobs. If I spend 8 seconds from start of mob to starting the next mob, but the mobs take 25 seconds after I start combat to die, and you spend 12 seconds from start to end of combat before starting the next mob, who's killing mobs faster? 

 

 

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On 2017-05-09 at 5:08 PM, Mutley said:

Hey, total noob when it comes to locks so I would like to get some clarity in what ppl mean by "dot them up".

I get that corruption is the most important spell, and that CoA is situational when the mob takes more than the whole duration to kill.

So I cast corruption, then what? Immolate? Life drain? Shadow bolt?

So far I have been casting corruption>CoA>immolate and then life drain. Usually for me the mobs last way longer than the first corruption, sometimes even the CoA. Reading this thread gives me the impression that people go Corruption.. aaand then wand? What am I missing?

Basically it comes down to mana and how long the mobs are alive, but in general, you'll always use corr > CoA > (Shadowbolt or Immolate, depending on which is most damage per mana and how much mana you can spare), then wand.

 

I think I stopped using immolate around level 25 or so, to prevent running out of mana and at that level wands are pretty op anyway. Probably at level 30 or something Shadowbolt once per mob or two, then more shadowbolts the higher level'd I become.

On 2017-05-14 at 9:05 PM, jcochran said:

 

I have got to wonder about your focus on seconds per kill. Are you dotting the mob, then spamming shadow bolts until it's dead? And if so ... Why?

When I play an affliction warlock, I'll send in the VW, dot up the mob. then send the VW on towards the next mob. No shadow bolts, no wands. Just dot 'em up and let 'em die. Yes, the time it takes for a mob to die is a few seconds longer than what it would take if I were to toss off shadow bolts. But from my point of view, the mana I spend on a shadow bolt is wasted mana because the DoTs ticking away are going to kill the mob anyway, assuming you allow the DoTs enough time to do their job. The only real limit to how fast I can kill is the GCD limiting how fast I can dot things up. As far as I'm concerned, a mob has three states.

1. Alive - I haven't done anything to it ... yet.

2. Dead, but still moving - It has dots and as far as I'm concerned, it's dead, it just doesn't realize it yet.

3. Dead and lootable. - Finally still enough for me to loot it.

And from the tone of this thread, it seems that's there's entirely too many warlocks that are afraid of mobs that are in state 2 and are wasting mana using shadow bolts to speed up its transition to state 3 when what they should do is find another mob in state 1 and move that mob over to state 2.

So why care if a mob takes 30 seconds to die? The real metric to measure is how long you take between starting combat between mobs. If I spend 8 seconds from start of mob to starting the next mob, but the mobs take 25 seconds after I start combat to die, and you spend 12 seconds from start to end of combat before starting the next mob, who's killing mobs faster? 

 

 

Kills per hour and resource efficiency is all I've ever cared about while leveling, as I honestly believe grinding to be the quickest way to level a warlock in vanilla on a high pop server. With that said, the more seconds a mob is alive, the more it'll drain your resources, be it voidwalker health or mana, or your own mana in re-dotting. The reason I talk about seconds per mob is because over the course of some 150 mobs per hour, those seconds adds up to hours pretty darn quickly on the way to 60. Those seconds are just as valuable as all other seconds, and therefore I suggest going for early improved drain soul. 

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Hi,

First of all thanks for that amazing guide.

I have a question i didnt find an answer to through all 5 pages. Those gear sheets are amazing. I see they all try to maximize shadow dmg and will actually allow me to dwell as little as possible in raids ;) However can you confirm that having a ton of +shadow dmg compensates fairly the dramatic loss of stamina due to the pure lack of it on most of those best items? In case if i get full T1 or some random blue 5man items with a lot of stamina and intellect, is not as good as having items from this sheet? I am talking mostly pvp related.. for pvm i trust those are the best option.

I am running SM/Ruin build

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I would add engineering as a viable PvE profession. Two shadow reflect trinkets combined with demo is 100 free shadow resist for twins on top of goblin sappers for viscidus, and grenades are useful on Nefarian. The bloodvine goggles are nice for extra hit/crit/mp5.

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