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Arigatos

Black Lotus

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OH YES!!!

 

U THOUGHT THIS WAS NOT GOING TO BE POSTED YET!! UR WRONG!!

What is it going to be with the black lotuses in the new Elysium? What u bet the prices will be on the new AH considering the overpopulation? What will gold farmers do?

 

Meeeeeehhhh, what a hard topic to bring on and to discuss about, all this in game capitalism is bringing our farming efforts to a dead end. Ofc raiding without flasks is not possible but god knows how everyone is going to get his flask in time? Are there going to be dynamic spawning for BL? Are they going to use the multichannel system they announced a while b4 they were shutdown? Any info on that? 

 

#Askurchinesefriendstheymayknow 

Edited by Arigatos

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100 gold each before the spawn rate fix then after the fix went down to about 50 gold and by the end of Nostalrius it was up to about 90 gold again.

What are the server admins going to do to offer raiders, that need flasks, a blizzlike experience?? Maybe appoint a single GM to monitor the black lotus price 24/7 and adjust the spawn rate accordingly?

Who knows... I dont for sure. Lets hope the elysium crew has an idea of how to fix this situation with black lotus and similar items.

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Simple ... price fix it ... make a vendor who selling black lotus in every auction house for 55 gold...

First it prevents price gouging and hording.

Second it allows the item to have a reasonable value of 45-50 g which is ... reasonable not like the shits who try to make a monopoly and control the prices.

Third it creates a money sink (it will pull 10's of thasounds of G from the economy) while not changing anything fundamental about the game itself. Which will help cut inflation of ALOT of others items and services as well. Yes, it's not blizz like but neither is 10k server pop.

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Simple ... price fix it ... make a vendor who selling black lotus in every auction house for 55 gold...

First it prevents price gouging and hording.

Second it allows the item to have a reasonable value of 45-50 g which is ... reasonable not like the shits who try to make a monopoly and control the prices.

Third it creates a money sink (it will pull 10's of thasounds of G from the economy) while not changing anything fundamental about the game itself. Which will help cut inflation of ALOT of others items and services as well. Yes, it's not blizz like but neither is 10k server pop.

That's a horrible idea, you can do this with a lot of items so where does it end. Btw there are already gold sinks in vanilla WoW, like mounts and abilities.

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Yeah I dont really agree with that idea either but for other reasons.

Elysium is supposed to be offering a blizzlike experience and adding an NPC selling that item. which did not exist in vanilla, goes completely against that logic even though the scenario we are currently experience might be not blizzlike itself.

I feel like this needs a light external touch by the admins that doesnt include adding things that didnt exist beforehand.

The spawnrate thing is just a temporary solution as I mentioned in a previous reply and we propably might need something else to get this problem under control.

 

Maybe and just maybe if the hype settles down and the population does aswell then the price will stop fluctuating around. 

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Guys i think there must be a multy-solution. A fundamental change in the server operation that will fix several problems caused due to the overpopulation and one of them and major one the black lotus distribution and price. The multichannel system in my opinion is a great solution. This servers were made by blizzard to support 6k max in matters of resources and we are having 10 - 15k. Dynamic spawns are obviously not enough. Well the vendor think, its not so good for the server experience, flasks will be so easily created and raiding will be much easier as well. Also most of the herbalists will stop farming the lotuses in order not to contest the gold farmers since the vendors will work as an easy solution for them. As a consequence all the remaining lotuses will be owned by gold farmers and they will make enough profits from that to control other prices as well. 

Edited by Arigatos

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Shrug ... i just get sick of pay 100g per lotus, and unless they do something drastic like flood the market the price will not change. People will continue to horde them and manipulate the market and park herb toons on potental spawn etc.

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That's a horrible idea, you can do this with a lot of items so where does it end. Btw there are already gold sinks in vanilla WoW, like mounts and abilities.

skills and mounts are extremely limited in big picture economy especially when you're talking about people with 10s of thasounds of G. Edited by Docken

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Well the idea of BL markets is not bad in matter of economy but in matter of the vanilla experience. But still they will manipulate something elses price if black lotuses are not enough for gold farming. I also agree with the idea that mounts etc are not a good gold sinks. If they are a bout to make a BL vendor they could just make the spawns much more common.or make a new function forthe spawn places and randomness in order not to camp them. Idk im out of ideas as well

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The Black Lotus thing isn't a big issue until Naxx.   Get can by in AQ with x4 a week for Twin Emps, and don't need those if you one shot them with world buffs still on tanks/locks.

 

C'Thun if your burst dps is low could help casters as well.  But in Naxx it is pretty much needed for the majority of the raid to have these.

 

Back in 2005, you'd have maybe 1 guild clear Naxx, another 2-3 guilds attempting bosses with a few bosses down.    The supply was much greater than the demand.  Compared to a populated private server where many more people will be going into Naxx on a weekly basis, the demand will be much more than the supply.   Gonna be rough.

 

If said things became an issue; I know other servers have implemented a flask vendor, not just a lotus vendor.   This enabled lotus to still be marketable, but it was controlled because you couldn't sell the lotus but for so much gold + groms/dreamfoil cost.

 

Blizzard realized the lotus farm issue as well with guilds parking an herbalist at each location in a zone, log on right before the timer and spam click the area to get the lotus.   Their solution was incorporate the needed rare herbs as a "green drop" % chance from the other white item herbs you obtain.

 

While I expect no change, the two examples above reduce the stranglehold on the market for a item that eventually becomes mandatory.

Edited by Undertanker

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skills and mounts are extremely limited in big picture economy especially when you're talking about people with 10s of thasounds of G.

There will always be people who enjoy making massive amounts of gold tbh, but that's mostly a small group. It's part of the economy. If things really get out of hand, a % to get a black lotus with a normal herb (like Undertanker said) seems like something that wouldn't disturb the economy too much. In any case, implementing non-blizzlike vendors would really kill immersion for me.

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There's not a great solution if you keep it blizz like the best you can do is multichannel and make is a "green drop" attached to other nodes and perhaps increase the spawn rate to match the population in proper proportions. But it still remains people will manipulate the price once it hits the AH unless the make them so plentiful that the average herbalist can pick up a stack on their normal herb runs which isn't blizz like.

So it's either suffer the prices and manipulation or make them so access able the prices can't be hyper inflated. It's the nature of people and yes they can manipulate the other herbs needed but that's harder to do as badly because of the greater availability of them.

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2 wyas in my opinion:

 

1) Make blizzlike and make a restriction for maximum online ppl on server. Just like it was on retail.

2) Make dynamic spawn time or something, depending on curent(or medium over some time period) online to produce more resources for bigger than blizzlike population on server

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100 gold each before the spawn rate fix then after the fix went down to about 50 gold and by the end of Nostalrius it was up to about 90 gold again.

What are the server admins going to do to offer raiders, that need flasks, a blizzlike experience?? Maybe appoint a single GM to monitor the black lotus price 24/7 and adjust the spawn rate accordingly?

Who knows... I dont for sure. Lets hope the elysium crew has an idea of how to fix this situation with black lotus and similar items.

Why would any raider ever NEED a flask?

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There are many intresting ideas till now. Multichannel, green drop%, dynamic spawns based(which already exist). The vendor thing is a bad idea in my oppinion cause it will ruin the blizzlie experience, also the population cap is a bad idead cause chinese population which is 30% of the ppl is not actualy raiding so they will just take the spots of other players who wanna raid. Also the dynamic spawn thing based on the population will be greatly abused by gold farmers. Another idea is make a function with Conditional Probability in black lotuses the more u get the less chance to drop. The less u get the more chance to drop (per herb).

Also Vaccine man "Why would any raider ever NEED a flask?" i consider this question as a joke. Right?

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 chinese population which is 30% of the ppl is not actualy raiding

There existed numerous Chinese raiding guilds and at least one Japanese raiding guild on Nostalrius PvP realm.

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There existed numerous Chinese raiding guilds and at least one Japanese raiding guild on Nostalrius PvP realm.

 

Don't encourage the weeaboos by calling them japanese.

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You don't "need" a flask for anything besides twin emps on tanks if you lost world buffs. That being said Flask of Supreme power is way too strong for try hard casters to ignore, and is the main drive behind black lotus prices since meter chasers will be popping those even in MC.

 

On nost the way lotus worked was 1 would spawn every ~15 minutes in the 4 zones which created a pretty decent supply. The problem is very little of these lotus would hit the AH, the vast majority were either stockpiled by the picker for Naxx/AQ progression, or sold within their guild.

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On retail vanilla servers, it was 1 spawn per hour in the 4 zones, so in a given week, you had (at most) 672 lotus per server for every guild to share. A single guild using flasks on all 40 raiders raiding 3 nights a week for 4 hours would use 240 lotus. This wasn't sustainable, and was the main reason why flasks were rarely used other than on tanks.

 

In the process of clearing vanilla as a mage, I used precisely 3 flasks; supreme power on our first C'Thun and Patchwerk, and Titans on our first 4HM. This was standard practice across the guild, so no I wasn't being lazy and carried. We had 3 Naxx clearing guilds on the server and several others working on earlier Naxx bosses, and dozens of guilds in BWL/AQ, so lotus was extremely rare. So, as you can see, you don't NEED flasks to clear Naxx, but they would certainly smooth out your progress and speed it up.

 

This over abundance of lotus is part of why servers like Warsong had to super buff raid bosses. For example, Kel'thuzad had 3 times the HP he had on retail vanilla. Sure, people know how to play better and are better informed, so a tuning adjustment could be warranted if your server staff wanted to, but Blizzard surely did not tune Naxx fights for raid wide flasks.

 

How to adjust for population difference? I'm not sure. 672 lotus for a server with concurrent online population between 7-12K is clearly not going to work. My retail vanilla server only had about 3-4K peak and 672 lotus was already a strain. I'm not sure it can be fixed due to the mechanic Blizzard intended for lotus.

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What are the server admins going to do to offer raiders, that need flasks, a blizzlike experience?? 

 

From what I remember from my old vanilla server, the top guild(s) basicly had monopoly on black lotus and flasks. Not total monopoly but they had the timers and they had the most off them in the guildbanks and such.

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If you are determined to get black lotus, you can do so if you are willing to level an herbalist and educate yourself on good routes. Due to the increased spawn points that nost implemented, + the increased spawn rate anyone has a very reasonable chance to get lotus if you are determined, especially if you work with guildies or friends to get timers in one zone and coordinate your routes

 

I knew a couple people that would group up with up to 3 people in a zone, where they would split the lotus they were able to obtain among the 3, and many times would be able to get all 4 lotus an hour. It's also very strong because those 3 people would coordinate to kill all opposite faction herbers to limit competition

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Here is the thing i totaly agree with the "u don't need flask" thing. U don't need it like u will never clear the raid but in matters of competition and hardcoreness the guild forces the players to buy them, even the not so hardcore guilds. It is compulsory. U needed to stack 10 flasks and 120 NR pots for AQ and it was commandatory to do it or eslse u wouldn't raid. It is something that a lot of ppl don't get. It is not aboutwhether u "need" it or not. Its about the requirements of the guild. If u want u can go to a mediocre guild wit ha mediocre raid leader + newbies and make one month at least to clear molten core. And i am saying this overexcesively cause even mediocre guilds used flasks (not in MC ofc). Also the 4 lotus p/h (if u are lucky) distributed to 3 ppl after tons of tryhard, possible pvp and contesting 100 gold farmers and players around u, is 1.3 lotuses per person. Do u know how many u need to go progression runs? A lot!!! I didn't knew not even one single person playing in hardocre guild not having at least 3 flasks or lotuses on their bank. Idk in which server u guys played or if u played in blizz, but, apart from the fact that in blizz vanilla almost noone cleared nax, here in nost the non-flask theory is a fairy tail. The difference between the nonflask vanilla and the flask vanilla is that ppl here are going FULL tryhard. 

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Some events requares flasks, but mostly you will be fine if tanks got them. More important thing is coordination between raid and skill of every ppl in, flasks just diminish impact of the fails in raid coz allow you live longer without heal or while you stay in bad spot and getting unnecessary damage or making more damage in DPS race if raid can't stand much time vs boss or ppl in raid a mediocre and can't do decent DPS without flasks or gives you 2k mana boost for a boattle(realy helpful till AQ40 where fights are long and requared better mana conserv and surviality of the raid)

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make black lotus spawn faster the more ppl is online like  1000 normal- 2000 small boost -3000 medium boost etc etc etc

Edited by cowking

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