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Elf Lord Omega

Oto's Rogue Guide

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2 hours ago, Netherfrost said:

I didnt say 310 was cap. You can use the values to calculate beyond, but it has no practical applicance. Its ".0" for each at 315

Other than reducing hit, +skill reduces glancing blow damage against bosses white damage making it extremely useful for dual wield, correct?

That said, could you explain why most prefer to just get +10 instead of +15? I noticed the Human rogues talent build prefer 309 instead of 311/312 with Maladath, just wanting to know the logic behind this if you happen to know.

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4 hours ago, TTL said:

Other than reducing hit, +skill reduces glancing blow damage against bosses white damage making it extremely useful for dual wield, correct?

That said, could you explain why most prefer to just get +10 instead of +15? I noticed the Human rogues talent build prefer 309 instead of 311/312 with Maladath, just wanting to know the logic behind this if you happen to know.

Hit doesnt matter important is glancong blows and from 309 to 312 difference is smaller than +40ap from hakari blade or any other fast oh with stats

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14 hours ago, TTL said:

Other than reducing hit, +skill reduces glancing blow damage against bosses white damage making it extremely useful for dual wield, correct?

That said, could you explain why most prefer to just get +10 instead of +15? I noticed the Human rogues talent build prefer 309 instead of 311/312 with Maladath, just wanting to know the logic behind this if you happen to know.

It decreases the GB penalty, and increases the damage of the glancing blows you do. Im sure you knew this, but now theres no confusion at atleast. Think of +skill as a stat like any other, you dont need a certain level, theres no "magic number". It increases a portion of your damage. You're evaluating different item options, and when doing so, you take account for general stats, weapon dps, weapon speed, so on so forth. The +skill is a stat like any other, and you will evaluate which options is best depending on your current item setup. Theres no direct stat comparison.

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This is fantastic.  It helped me remember a lot of things about vanilla wow and, more importantly, taught me tons that i never knew! 

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I didn't go through all the comments so I didn't see if this was asked yet, but why and when does +15 agility become better than crusader for the offhand enchant? 

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Why do rogues value %hit so much even after the yellow hit cap? From combat alone you get 6 weapon skill (which for non-humans lowers the chance to miss by 3%) and 5% hit, which means you only need 1% hit to reach the yellow damage hit cap. After that %hit only serves to turn white misses into white hits, and from what I can tell, white damage is only like 40-50% of a rogues total damage output.

Since %crit applies both yellow and white damage, it seems reasonable to conclude that after the first 1% hit  all additional %hit is, at best, only half as valuable %crit (until you start to acquire more than 35% crit since that is where your white crit cap would be with only 1% hit from gear)

From what I can tell a lot of BIS lists rate %hit and % crit very similarly... and this seems very wrong. What am I missing? 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Roxanne Flowers said:

I know there's a joke in here somewhere ...

Not at all. I am looking for an explanation for why %hit is valued nearly as high as %crit in all these gear lists. As I explained in my original post i feel like at %hit should be only 50% as useful as %crit. 

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Is 40-50% of your damage not a ton lol? You want hit more than crit even after yellow hit cap.. not only because it makes your white damage go up it also increases your crit cap- allowing you to utilize raid buffs more.

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I never said %hit was useless... I said %hit is only as valuable as %crit when: (1) you are not yellow hit capped (VERY easy to accomplish) or  (2) when you are crit capped on your white hits (how easy is this to accomplish does it requires world buffs).  If you are not crit capped then %hit becomes a lot less valuable than crit.

Maybe you could provide me with some example stats from your character to help me better understand. For instance what is your white DPS and what is your Yellow DPS on a standard  single target boss encounter?... Broodlord maybe? How much %crit and %hit do you have when you are raid buffed but without world buffs? What is your weapon skill?

I have no idea what what these numbers should look like for a typical rogue in without BIS gear clearing BWL. Could you provide me with some examples?  

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hittable.jpg

- we are casual raiders in BWL. So world buffs, yes, but no min max

- 13% hit (8+5) and 311 expertise on Ebonroc

- I ran with DM trinket, so youI see I had still room to run Blackhands Breath. Would have been 2% hit less, 2% crit more. Close to crit cap

- don't forget attack table rules. On attack table crit turns a hit into crit. Hit turns a miss into Hit. Cause crit is double and miss is zero, hit and crit are equal stats regarding white hit table. Overall crit is better, cause of Lethality and ofc special attacks

- positioning at pull was sloppy, so two block hits, ignore them

 

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@Hummi.... Thank you so much for this post.

DPS mate (btw what version of DPS mate is this... it looks different than mine) provides exactly the kinda of information I think more people need to  look at in order to min-max (even if you said your raid doesnt, you are doing a pretty good job). You clearly have a good understanding of how this works and you also helped me figure out for myself how rogues should itemize.

From this one can clearly tell that you are close, but not quite, crit capped (still 6% of all white attacks are missed). Hypothetically speaking here, you could swap 3% hit for 3% crit  and see an increase in DPS (as I stated before this is because %crit applies to both white and yellow attack whereas anything over 6% hit, because of weapon skill, only applies to white attacks). As you said BB would have been better than DM trinket in this encounter.

Now this isn't always so easy to accomplish given the way stats are allocated, but right you priority is %crit rather than %hit.

In summary, optimal DPS occurs at the exact point where you no longer have any white "hits" just white "crits" and white "glances." 

Thanks!

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One think to keep in mind regarding gearing is RNG.

We have fairly short fights in BWL. If you enter a fight vs Vael with 30% crit from gear+consumables it is possible (not likely) to end up with an average of 35% crit. The longer the fight, the lesser the chance.

So if you gear all the way till crit cap, you can't get “crit luck“. You will even end up having less than your crit cap, cause you cut the right side from ur probability table. 

So I advise to have some excessive Hit (like 2-3%).

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В 25.08.2017 в 10:52, Hummi сказал:

We have fairly short fights in BWL. If you enter a fight vs Vael with 30% crit from gear+consumables it is possible (not likely) to end up with an average of 35% crit.

Isn't there a hidden(from attack tooltip and theorycraft atleast) 4,4-5% crit which based on the relation between your weapon skill - defense level of target?
I'm about:

  • The base chance for your attack to be a critical strike is: 5% - (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*0.04% (с)

which is not listed anywhere.

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Even if u have 305 skill and therefore difference is 10, this means ur crit is reduced by 0,4%. So not an amount you would change gear for.

See my attack table on above. Crit is pretty much like what I see on charscreen. So no hidden figures

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On 8/31/2017 at 4:05 PM, Hummi said:

Even if u have 305 skill and therefore difference is 10, this means ur crit is reduced by 0,4%. So not an amount you would change gear for.

See my attack table on above. Crit is pretty much like what I see on charscreen. So no hidden figures

@Hummi could you tell me what version of DPSmate you use to track your glancing blows? They don't show up for me with the newest version (b124), and I would love to have access to the same information that you have.

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On 3.9.2017 at 9:14 PM, Razorwynd said:

@Hummi could you tell me what version of DPSmate you use to track your glancing blows? They don't show up for me with the newest version (b124), and I would love to have access to the same information that you have.

Haha, sorry I can't. I've updated my DPSmate, because it didn't have the “delay“ function. After the update it doesn't show glance anymore :(

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can you do the macro like this for lvling

/cast Riposte
/cast Sinister Strike
/script if not IsCurrentAction(9) then UseAction(11) end;
 

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Slight Necro, but I don't know where else to ask:

How to value +weapon damage?

Wouldn't +1 weapon damag equal 14 ap?

Wouldn't that mean, that the +5 dmg enchant is worth 70ap, which is much more valuable than 15 agi or crusader?

Wouldn't that mean, the best ring in the game would be the might of cenarius with its +4 weapon damage?

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