Is it realistic to go Disc/Holy for DPS?

[gotmilk0112 10]

On 1/16/2017 at 4:31 PM, Midoriko said:

Holy does 2x dmg to Undead.

What? Since when? Elemental damage weaknesses/multipliers are not a thing in WoW.

[Theloras 108]

39 minutes ago, gotmilk0112 said:

What? Since when? Elemental damage weaknesses/multipliers are not a thing in WoW.

yea i dont know what midoriko is smoking :P

[Midoriko 2]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 9:52 PM, Theloras said:

yea i dont know what midoriko is smoking :P

Swiftthistle

[Undertanker 88]

On 1/19/2017 at 9:11 PM, gotmilk0112 said:

What? Since when? Elemental damage weaknesses/multipliers are not a thing in WoW.

Correct they are not.   Though certain mobs have a vulnurablity to a specific school.    Go to the tar pits in Un'Goro and tag them with some fire-spells to see what I mean.

[Ram 11]

If done correctly smite DPS is viable even without elemental weaknesses.

[Theloras 108]

On January 21, 2017 at 0:42 PM, Midoriko said:

Swiftthistle

+1 :)

[Theloras 108]

5 hours ago, Ram said:

If done correctly smite DPS is viable even without elemental weaknesses.

correct, even if "certain people" swear and scream that it isn't...

[Haitharn 2]

8 hours ago, Theloras said:

correct, even if "certain people" swear and scream that it isn't...

Do you have any videos of a smite DPS priest doing a lot of dps?

[Deathlace 2]

6 hours ago, Haitharn said:

Do you have any videos of a smite DPS priest doing a lot of dps?

I'm playing it this time around, so maybe in the future!

[tippsarve 2]

On 2017-01-23 at 2:05 PM, Ram said:

If done correctly smite DPS is viable even without elemental weaknesses.

http://imgur.com/a/C1fix

This is from the start of bwl, i would say that smite dps is viable for those who want to use 20-30 runes and major mana pots per raid.

At twins you can dps both:

http://imgur.com/a/OxMjj

Edited January 27, 2017 by tippsarve
links

[Theloras 108]

8 hours ago, tippsarve said:

http://imgur.com/a/C1fix

This is from the start of bwl, i would say that smite dps is viable for those who want to use 20-30 runes and major mana pots per raid.

At twins you can dps both:

http://imgur.com/a/OxMjj

keep in mind that this is also only from Horde perspective - meaning no Sanctity Aura or Judgement of the Crusader stacking

granted it's from Vanilla Gaming - not the greatest private server out there - but still representative of what Disc can do

but yes on Twin Emperors, the melee boss is NOT immune to Holy damage so Disc can DPS both bosses with ease because they do not have to move from one side of the room to the other like all other DPS so thank you @tippsarve for sharing this

[tippsarve 2]

On 2017-01-27 at 8:25 PM, Theloras said:

granted it's from Vanilla Gaming - not the greatest private server out there - but still representative of what Disc can do

Coefs for holy fire. swp mind blast and smite where "fixed" a long time ago. Partial resistance where also added, static +15 all res on mobs, this is where smitedps would be abit better.

But i em not sure if holy dmg should have this or not. So if there would be no partial resists, the dps would go up alot. So far lvling as smite on zeth kur iv seen no partial resistance = smite dps would be better here then on vanillagaming.

 

Edited January 28, 2017 by tippsarve

[Theloras 108]

7 minutes ago, tippsarve said:

Coefs for holy fire. swp mind blast and smite where "fixed" a long time ago. Partial resistance where also added, static +15 all res on mobs, this is where smitedps would be abit better.

But i em not sure if holy dmg should have this or not. So if there would be no partial resists, the dps would go up alot. So far lvling as smite on zeth kur iv seen no partial resistance = smite dps would be better here then on vanillagaming.

 

Good to hear that Disc was working properly on VG because I can tell you from firsthand experience that Retribution was bugged to hell.

Holy Resistance should not exist at all except for level resists against higher level mobs (+5 for each level) so a raid boss having +15 Holy Resistance to either Disc or Ret attacks is fine.

Even though Holy Resistance isn't a thing, but you still need your spells to land in the first place so Disc still needs to have +hit rating on armor/weapon as much as possible seeing as you don't gain any hit from talents.

RealmPlayers is being glitchy today, so how much +Spell Hit did you have from your gear and what was your +Spell Crit % as well?

What was the reaction from your guildmates when you told them that you wanted to Holy DPS?

:P

[tippsarve 2]

59 minutes ago, Theloras said:

+15 Holy Resistance to either Disc or Ret attacks is fine.

Yes, but you can still get 75% of your spell resisted (RNG). think iv gotten 5-6 spells in a row as partial resist.

Talk about resist, i use 9% hit. It is not worth to gimp yourself to get 16% imo (rng in favor), with full BiS (naxx) 11% hit is what i would go for. Critt is just a bonus that you can pickup where you can get it, there arent that many choices.

 

2012 i joined a guild called De Profundis, i got invited by Sarek who already played smitedps and they also had a semi inactive SP. So i joined more or less to replace him. Tthen 1 week later we got another SP. So we raided with 2 SP and 1 smite. There have been times where i had to go and respec from shadow to disc just to go back and respec shadow for next fight, could be around 200g per day just in respecs. So wouldent it be nice to have one spec both for healing and dps ? :D

This continued for 3-4 years, then the debuff limit was fixed to 16 slots (down from unlimited) at the same time reg from spirit was halfed (tbc core, tbc values i think) +15 res on lvl 63 mobs and the top of the cake, coef where nerfed. From something that was really overpowered,  900~ swp ticks in warsong to 600~ ticks, also i could not use swp anylong in raids due to the 16 debuff slots and the crazy amount of mana it cost to refrash just to get it knock it off two seconds later.

So i switched to smite, now we have 2 smite and 2 sp´s in our guild, most fights we can have all in our raids witthout a problem, just go with 1 less healer per smite dps and problem solved :D

Yes, Yes this requires gear, wich is why i think that most dps priests should start as shadow, get Nefs Tear so you have around 6% hit from gear, if you still like to farm 20-30 demonic runes and get dreamfoil for 6-7 stacks of major mana potions + all other consumes per raid, then you should consider to play smitedps cos you will use more then you would as shadow.

It is not for everyone, if you dont want to commit to the farming you will get bored playing the spec, being oom all the time no one is waiting for you to drink to full, tanks sometimes go from viscidus to almost at huhuran without dropping combat. :S (no combatbug)

 

Reactions have always been good, but you need to prove yourself infront of ppl to get their respect, just talking about dpsing as a priest get ppl tilted.

[Theloras 108]

good for you @tippsarve - are you planning on rolling Disc DPS here on Elysium as well?

if so, please post your progress as you go!

[Theloras 108]

On 1/18/2017 at 2:02 AM, cryofsorrow said:

So, no practical proof of your claim of 700 Holy DPS Priest. Take care now, I'll be busy doing 1400 DPS on my Spriest since the realms are up.
See? I can play this game, too.

BTW, still waiting for @cryofsorrow to comment on how Disc can't DPS...

On 1/27/2017 at 2:39 AM, tippsarve said:

http://imgur.com/a/C1fix

This is from the start of bwl, i would say that smite dps is viable for those who want to use 20-30 runes and major mana pots per raid.

At twins you can dps both:

http://imgur.com/a/OxMjj

Edited January 29, 2017 by Theloras

[killerduki 54]

If tippsarve play ally and up to join , i will free one spot for him ;)

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Fisher 5]

11 hours ago, Theloras said:

BTW, still waiting for @cryofsorrow to comment on how Disc can't DPS...

On 1/27/2017 at 2:39 AM, tippsarve said:

http://imgur.com/a/C1fix

This is from the start of bwl, i would say that smite dps is viable for those who want to use 20-30 runes and major mana pots per raid.

At twins you can dps both:

http://imgur.com/a/OxMjj

You showed damage done, not DPS. The argument made was "no practical proof of your claim of 700 Holy DPS Priest." That point still stands. Show a screenshot of you doing 700 DPS.

Granted, it's interesting to see a priest (especially one that isn't shadow) that high on the damage meters.

[tippsarve 2]

4 hours ago, killerduki said:

 

If tippsarve play ally and up to join , i will free one spot for him ;)

/Kind regards Killerduki

 

Yea, always wanted to try smite on ally, sure would be alot better. As horde i rarly have a shaman in my group = no extra mp5, paladins are amazing :D

If i have the will to lvl all the way to60 ill take a look at your offer :) So mutch more tempting to go back to a char that you have over 300 days played on.

[tippsarve 2]

51 minutes ago, Fisher said:

You showed damage done, not DPS. The argument made was "no practical proof of your claim of 700 Holy DPS Priest." That point still stands. Show a screenshot of you doing 700 DPS.

Granted, it's interesting to see a priest (especially one that isn't shadow) that high on the damage meters.

http://rewap.org/wws/bwl/actor_deetee.html

not the best run, ill see if i can find some more later. This is data from one night all together. 

iknow that700 dps for 3-4 minutes is doable, the only factor is your mana. But like i said, 90% of the time i dont have a shaman in my group. Huge diffrence.

 

Edit: If you click on a boss, that is only data from the boss itself, all mobs are separated.

Edited January 29, 2017 by tippsarve

[Theloras 108]

8 hours ago, Fisher said:

You showed damage done, not DPS. The argument made was "no practical proof of your claim of 700 Holy DPS Priest." That point still stands. Show a screenshot of you doing 700 DPS.

Granted, it's interesting to see a priest (especially one that isn't shadow) that high on the damage meters.

The point of all of this is that @tippsarve played a HORDE Discipline Holy DPS Priest.

Horde don't have Paladins during Vanilla which means that he was topping DPS meters without any of the following:

1. No Sanctity Aura for +10% Holy Damage.

2. No Judgement of Wisdom stacking for additional chance to regen mana on each spell cast.

3. No Judgement of the Crusader stacking for an additional +631 Holy damage to the target (see below).

JUDGEMENT OF THE CRUSADER STACKING

Since I was able to prove that multiple ranks of the same Judgement are in fact blizzlike in Vanilla and not bug abuse, we are permitted to put up all 6 ranks of Judgement of the Crusader for a grand total of +631 holy damage (provided that the Rets have PvP gloves which add +20 to JotC).

JotC R1 +46 Holy Damage

JotC R2 +57 Holy Damage

JotC R3 +80 Holy Damage

JotC R4 +115 Holy Damage

JotC R5 +149 Holy Damage

JotC R6 +184 Holy Damage

If your guild allows multiple Ret Paladins, then I highly suggest that you stack JotC debuffs and use SoC for max +Holy Dmg to the target. In addition to this, I would recommend that you also recruit Discipline Priests who want to spam Holy Fire and Smite to melt some serious unmitigated and unresistable holy face - and don't forget, the Rets bring Sanctity Aura which add another +10% holy dmg to the Disc Priests' damage as well.

FYI for reference:

Re: Multiple Judgement of Crusade should not be Bannable

by Nano » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:25 am

No one has been banned for this and they won't because it's working as intended. This whole thread has run its course.

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25589&start=30#p182280

[Fisher 5]

49 minutes ago, Theloras said:

which means that he was topping DPS meters

Were you looking at the same things as me? He wasn't topping DPS meters. He wasn't even topping damage meters. 

41 minutes ago, Theloras said:

If your guild allows multiple Ret Paladins,

That's a pretty big "if" just to make a strange holy DPS priest competitive and viable. You're sacrificing a lot of raid-wide DPS by bringing that many ret paladins and wasting that many debuff slots just to boost the damage of a spec that is only feasible on a few niche fights and brings nothing beneficial to the group beyond that mediocre damage at a horribly inefficient rate of DPM. 

Not to mention that makes the entire premise of the build reliant on being Alliance, which is a pretty terrible way to present the build: "Only works as Alliance." In addition, the scarcity of decent ret paladins will make it quite the challenge to form a group of any such description.

To top it all off, good luck finding a group of people willing to test such a group. I stand with cryofsorrow; show me some proof this spec is capable of doing 700+ DPS "easily." Oh, and I'd consider needing 6 retribution paladins for JotC, 1+ more paladins for JoW, and a mass of mana potions and runes to be not an easy way to reach 700+ DPS.

However, by all means, prove us wrong. I'm sure it's possible... at a massive loss of raid-wide DPS, but hey, at least the one priest looks cool, right?

[Theloras 108]

@Fisher - look again:

http://imgur.com/a/OxMjj

He's number one on Twin Emps because he is able to DPS BOTH BOSSES since the melee boss isn't immune to Holy damage.

My guild runs with 3-4 Ret Paladins in our raids for ranks 4,5 and 6 of Judgement of the Crusader and rank 3 of Judgement of Wisdom.

I also am swinging Nightfall to boost all caster DPS with a spell damage SoR build so I have the highest uptime of any class/spec using Nightfall since SoR and JoR now trigger weapon/enchant/trinket procs on Elysium.

I get at least 1-2 Nightfall procs per trash mob and multiple Nightfall procs on every boss fight.

[Gardash 11]

Why is this the only active thread on this board?

There's like 30,000 players on this project, surely someone has questions about healing or gearing or anything other than this topic.

[Fisher 5]

12 minutes ago, Theloras said:

He's number one on Twin Emps because he is able to DPS BOTH BOSSES since the melee boss isn't immune to Holy damage.

Hahaha. Okay, so you've got one niche fight where holy DPS priest is viable. Neat.

15 minutes ago, Theloras said:

My guild runs with 3-4 Ret Paladins in our raids for ranks 4,5 and 6 of Judgement of the Crusader and rank 3 of Judgement of Wisdom.

I also am swinging Nightfall to boost all caster DPS with a spell damage SoR build so I have the highest uptime of any class/spec using Nightfall since SoR and JoR now trigger weapon/enchant/trinket procs on Elysium.

I get at least 1-2 Nightfall procs per trash mob and multiple Nightfall procs on every boss fight.

Good for you and your guild, I guess?

3 minutes ago, Gardash said:

Why is this the only active thread on this board?

Because there are a couple of folks in here whom are dead set on proving that holy can feasibly be DPS in raids, and the rest of us are trying to explain the many reasons that simply isn't the case.

Oh, but I guess it's viable on Twin Emperors, so quick: Go respec!