Legacy Gaming Network — A New Chapter Begins...

[Exacerbate 0]

1 minute ago, Tyche said:

That's the intention!

Just went from 6 to midnight

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Manji said:

This sounds great and all, and I'm happy to hear about cooperation when it comes to perfecting legacy code. Something did concern me in Crestfall's news post, however...

They mentioned, while listing the 3 developer communities in partnership, that Elysium will remain a permanent vanilla server. I was under the assumption that, once Naxx had been cleared on Elysium servers, the servers would either progress after some time to TBC or the option would be give to transfer/copy the characters to a TBC realm.

Was I mistaken about this? Will the Crestfall-based Benediction server be the only one in the partnership to allow progression through expansions? I'm already at 2 level 60s and climbing on Elysium because I thought I could use these character for many years to come in Kara and beyond, but now I'm worried that I might have wasted a good deal of time if the Crestfall server is the only one offering this feature.

Any comments from the Elysium staff on this matter would be appreciated! :)

Redacted - not %100 accurate and want to finalize our position before I post more. My bad folks!

[Zeo 1]

Just now, Tyche said:

As of right now, the intention is to keep Elysium servers Vanilla and have Crestfall be the TBC server in our "Legacy Network". There is also the intention of allowing transfers once you hit 60 to head over to a TBC realm, or stay in Vanilla on Elysium forever.

Awesome! Thanks for the info!

[Kazuma 11]

Cross project character transfers me-likey!

[Forest_ 40]

Great clarifications Tyche, thanks for the updates! Looking forward to the increase in quality by teaming up with other well thought out projects!

[Ickus 40]

Yea, this is pretty damn awesome news. Itll be great to continue on with our community into a different expansion. 

[JunkShop 1]

I'm not up to speed with Crestfall, but does anybody know if they plan to have a PvE server?  If not, this news isn't really news for those of us that play on Darrowshire.

[dragreb 0]

Here is to hoping you stand by what you said and find closely guarding all your information and code a real problem.
I hope this is the first step in a possibly long series of steps to open sourcing all the code. It is sad that those who remained with Nostalrius backed away from wanting to make their code open source, I hope you guys will not forget that the original intention of the Nost code being shared was for it to be shared with the full community, over time.

Let us not forget that if Nostalrius started acting strangely sooner, we may have once again lost years of minor and major improvements to the legacy and emulation community.

[Ellipsea 36]

I guess this is good.  What's being combined exactly?  And to what end?

"As of right now, the intention is to keep Elysium servers Vanilla and have Crestfall be the TBC server in our "Legacy Network". There is also the intention of allowing transfers once you hit 60 to head over to a TBC realm, or stay in Vanilla on Elysium forever."

Oh ok, the needed info.  I hope they open a PvE server too.

 

Also, not the first time someone on youtube seems to have access to staff info.

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Ellipsea

[taladril 43]

20 minutes ago, dragreb said:

Here is to hoping you stand by what you said and find closely guarding all your information and code a real problem.
I hope this is the first step in a possibly long series of steps to open sourcing all the code. It is sad that those who remained with Nostalrius backed away from wanting to make their code open source, I hope you guys will not forget that the original intention of the Nost code being shared was for it to be shared with the full community, over time.

Let us not forget that if Nostalrius started acting strangely sooner, we may have once again lost years of minor and major improvements to the legacy and emulation community.

Making it open source is a nice platitude but a bad idea. A network of quality servers - like they are doing here is a far better idea. Were you there to see how many servers were doing a total cash grab for the playerbase after nostalrius left? We don't want quality code to go out to everyone. It'll dilute the playerbase to a bunch of moneymaking enterprises profiting off of volunteer help and blizz IP. They shouldn't be able to get rich off of this project and players should be able to be gravitated toward servers with integrity. That's what is best for the scene. Not open source.

[Zeo 1]

1 minute ago, taladril said:

Making it open source is a nice platitude but a bad idea. A network of quality servers - like they are doing here is a far better idea. Were you there to see how many servers were doing a total cash grab for the playerbase after nostalrius left? We don't want quality code to go out to everyone. It'll dilute the playerbase to a bunch of moneymaking enterprises profiting off of volunteer help and blizz IP. They shouldn't be able to get rich off of this project and players should be able to be gravitated toward servers with integrity. That's what is best for the scene. Not open source.

Pretty much exactly what I was going to post. Well said.

[Jolken 0]

1 hour ago, Tyche said:

As of right now, the intention is to keep Elysium servers Vanilla and have Crestfall be the TBC server in our "Legacy Network". There is also the intention of allowing transfers once you hit 60 to head over to a TBC realm, or stay in Vanilla on Elysium forever.

Is that strictly a transfer or a copy? The dream for me and many others would be to keep a character in vanilla while at the same time copying that same character to a TBC realm.

[Lifealert 19]

AQ

[dragreb 0]

12 minutes ago, Henceforth said:

Making the source opened it is a way to allow chineses to hack their tools in and do even more damage as they already do today.

Obviously you cannot make the code opensource today because that would indeed lead to a huge number of hacks. This is why it is good to first team up with other respectable servers. Many security bugs can be found when trying to make multiple systems cooperate. And more respectable people looking at the code is always a good idea.

However in the long run your intention should be to ensure no hacks exist. Closed source projects get hacked all the time (as they are right now) and they have a very limited number of people able to help them find the bugs. Even worse, those looking for the bugs are almost exclusively those also looking to abuse. It is a falacy to believe that by not showing your code, less bugs will be found. But once again, you of course do need some time before an open source release to fix the biggest bugs.

Let us not forget that the only WoW servers today not based on open source projects of the past are the Blizzard servers. And in my opinion they aren't fun to play anymore. Open source protects the community from having to reinvent the wheel over and over again, so many big servers are gone and so many small bugs have been fixed 100s of times by servers and will have to be fixed a 100 more times because the fixes do not get returned to the community. It also protects the community from the developers chosing a path they do not want to follow. Many of us are here because we like Vanilla legacy more than the current WoW. In an ideal world the servers would have been open source forever and we would have never had to resort to this poking and prodding of an old client just to be able to play the version we want to play. Some of the Nostalrius devs that did not more over have suddenly, for some unexplained reason decided that they should have never shared the code with Elysium. If we weren't so lucky that they had already shared it before trying to retract, we wouldn't have this big Elysium community that we have right now.

12 minutes ago, taladril said:

Making it open source is a nice platitude but a bad idea. A network of quality servers - like they are doing here is a far better idea. Were you there to see how many servers were doing a total cash grab for the playerbase after nostalrius left? We don't want quality code to go out to everyone. It'll dilute the playerbase to a bunch of moneymaking enterprises profiting off of volunteer help and blizz IP. They shouldn't be able to get rich off of this project and players should be able to be gravitated toward servers with integrity. That's what is best for the scene. Not open source.

Making it open source would not increase the cash grab. As a matter of fact, it would likely crumble it. If every server out there has the highest possible quality of code, the integrity of the community and dev team could become a major factor to chose your server. If you had a choice between what Elysium has now and the exact same code quality but with paid for level boosts and items, which one would you chose? Perhaps the one where you pay, if that is the case, more power to you. But it makes it so your choice can be based on more than just the mechanicals of a server, which is just a small part of what makes a good private server. I wouldn't say that the Elysium dev/GM team is bad (although it seems that many on the crestfall forums actually dissagree), but as a vanilla wow player, they could be pretty bad before you even think about choosing a different Vanilla wow server. And that is sad, it gives this dev/GM team a licence to be shit if they wished to do so. It is very sad that you believe that is a bonus.

If the project were fully open source at some point, and it enabled everybody to make a server that is mechanically as good as this one, there is still no reason you or anybody else would choose a server made by moneymaking scrubs trying to profit from somebodies else work. It doesn't work that way. It is very hard to steal a great product because by the time you find out its a great product, its already the most popular and best one out there. Even if you had the code, you would have to put substantial effort into getting the community size of this server. But having the code could allow you to make better side projects.

The only reason why shitty servers could try and cash/playerbase grab after Nostalrius was gone was because the good server was gone. If the good server doesn't leave, they cannot do the cash/playerbase grab.

I cannot be the only person here who looked at private servers projects for years, getting excited and every time they would stop updating and all the work they put in it was lost to the community, there again for the next good looking project to try again.

[Ickus 40]

This

19 minutes ago, Lifealert said:

AQ

 

[Arccai 0]

Okay, i guess this is good since 90% of everyone seems to be thrilled, but wasen't the entire point (since theres been so much talk about vanilla here and vanilla there, the classic legacy, all of sudden starts adding an option to transfer over to tbc, which i assume everyone will do so elysium loses most of the population. If adding expansions like the original did (which ruined the game, and i assume is the point why people playing here), we'll eventually end up like the retail itself? :S

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Arccai said:

Okay, i guess this is good since 90% of everyone seems to be thrilled, but wasen't the entire point (since theres been so much talk about vanilla here and vanilla there, the classic legacy, all of sudden starts adding an option to transfer over to tbc, which i assume everyone will do so elysium loses most of the population. If adding expansions like the original did (which ruined the game, and i assume is the point why people playing here), we'll eventually end up like the retail itself? :S

 

Current Elysium Vanilla servers will always remain Vanilla :)

[Arccai 0]

Yea, and thats good, people will have choices, but how many will remain on elysium that holds the classic vanilla theme after everyone transfers away? :P

Might aswell transfer and suffer just to remain in a populated world.

If that's what happens, nobody knows yet.

[Ragingducks 9]

Amazing news. Keep up the great work. You now carry the torch.

[taladril 43]

@dragreb The point I am making that you missed because you are still talking hypotheticals is this: If there is only one group of servers out there with true quality and most others are wallowing in stock Mangos then players will gravitate toward the quality and away from the cash shops. Currently we have 2 quality server teams that are (Elysium) or generally are (Crestfall) set with the ideals of providing a service that is non profit and free of pay to win services. We are lucky that the quality and the ideals are together. I'd be having a very different state of mind if the highest quality server was also one that made money. 

To me giving away free leg ups to people that would actively try to make money off of other people is just stupid and you have to admit that a business making money off of open source content is a pretty hypocritical stance to hold in the first place.

[Gardash 11]

1 hour ago, Tyche said:

Current Elysium Vanilla servers will always remain Vanilla :) We'll just have new servers open up on different expansions.

Hey Tyche, there's some conflicting info out there.

Let's take an example of a current 60 on Anathema PvP.  The plan is to release all Vanilla content up to KT.

This realm, Anathema, will then remain at Naxx level 60 progression for all time.

Our hypothetical level 60 clears Naxx and is now ready for TBC.

A TBC realm is opened by Crestfall as part of the Legacy Network.

Our hypothetical level 60 transfers to this realm with all of his gear from Naxx and levels up to 70?

But at the same time, there's a new fresh realm launched by Crestfall that starts from scratch and goes PTE?

[Xylon666Darkstar 4]

Das dis mean moe eternal war with dos krusty elfs for da Boyz for ALL TIEMZ? AKROSS ALL DAMENSIONS?

[dragreb 0]

8 minutes ago, taladril said:

@dragreb The point I am making that you missed because you are still talking hypotheticals is this: If there is only one group of servers out there with true quality and most others are wallowing in stock Mangos then players will gravitate toward the quality and away from the cash shops. Currently we have 2 quality server teams that are (Elysium) or generally are (Crestfall) set with the ideals of providing a service that is non profit and free of pay to win services. We are lucky that the quality and the ideals are together. I'd be having a very different state of mind if the highest quality server was also one that made money. 

To me giving away free leg ups to people that would actively try to make money off of other people is just stupid and you have to admit that a business making money off of open source content is a pretty hypocritical stance to hold in the first place.

I disagree with you on multiple points.

Once again, it is not only the quality of the servers internals that make for the quality of a server. Good servers also need an active development team (because even Elysium is still far from finished and if exploits show up, the better you know the code, the quicker you can fix them). It needs an active and good GM team to support the players and servers. It needs more than anything else a big population to sustain the community. As well as good hardware and everything else. While Elysium does have all of this, it is not the reason anybody here chose this server (except maybe the population). The only reason we chose this is because of the good software. Which means it is really a limited choice because none of the other things I mentioned mattered as much. As a community member, it would be much better if our choice could be made based on much more than just the server software. I understand that you fear that people would run off to another server the moment one would spring up with the same quality, but that is just not the case. If they are not a significant improvement in all the other departments like developer activity and quality of their GM team, people won't make the switch. On the other hand if Elysium ever started to go downhill hard on some of those points, people would at least have a better place to go to. Lets not act like Elysium is certainly invincible. Few people expected Nostalrius to go down so quickly and even fewer expected them to act as shit as they have (with character transfer failing after a week). Elysium is here already, if it remains in the forefront of quality servers, it will not fail. It has the population, which, after software quality is probably the biggest reason to choose a server.

Just having the source also does not mean you have a server set up. Not at all. It still takes a lot of work and knowledge to go from the source to an actual stable running server. You need physical servers, you need a GM team, you need to actually understand what you are running. Set up a safe website to make your account and so on. And all of that to compete with a server that already has a huge active population as well as every other person who managed to set up their server using the source. If you are the shitty one, you won't be the successful one. It will have been a huge waste of time.

You fail to see how vulnerable both Elysium as well as the Vanilla community as a whole is. Elysium could see the same faith as Nostalrius, perhaps by a rogue developer, perhaps by accident. And Elysium is by far the best the Vanilla community has right now. But still everything they have is locked away, so if Elysium fails, we have lost over 5 years of development done by the Nostalrius and Elysium developers.

 

And you are also wrong that its hypocritical to make money of of open source. Nothing in open source says you can't use it as a viable business method. If you can make money on it, thats great. But you will be in a very competetive field because if you can make money of it, anybody else that is as good or better than you can do so as well. So you better stay the best. That is another thing making this open source would do. Give an incentive to not just be the best, but to stay the best. If tomorrow I bring a car to the market that gets 10000 miles to the gallon, I will be the car of choice for pretty much everybody. But it would not be healty for the car market because everybody else would crumble and I could start to be a let down on many other things like comfort or build quality. While if I gave the technology to everybody else, that would mean that I am confident that I will remain the best car for anybody out there and thus believe I also beat every other manufacturer in things like comfort and build quality as well as probably still understand my technology so much better than them that I can still beat them. And it would be to the benefit of every car driver out there.

No user should ever fear competition, the only ones that should fear competition are those that create, and it should be an incentive to them to remain the best ones around.

[taladril 43]

We obviously have very different viewpoints when it comes to what is good or bad for the vanilla wow community. For me any server that makes a profit is a bad thing. Any server that does fast xp, instant 60, pay to win, or anything else is a bad thing. Any special server with custom changes, cheaper respec costs, etc etc etc is a bad thing. You provide the world with a perfectly scripted vanilla core and this crap will be everywhere. Anyone can find any flavor of what they want for vanilla. I think you see that as a result of capitalism and would be happy for it. For me I couldn't be more in horror.

Look the real answer is if blizz were to give us the vanilla servers we all want that would solve all of this. The vanilla modding is fine but I'd prefer if it was legit. For now servers with the correct vision can at least be popular enough to guide the community that way by providing legitimate content that isn't modded. Open source removes all of those safeguards.

The private server scene is the way it is because of a specific set of circumstances. This project in a year or so would fundamentally change the circumstances. No one, and I mean no one has a working AQ, much less Naxx. Everyone has generally working quests and MC and BWL but the higher content isn't right stock and in a weird way I'm glad it's like that because you wouldn't see this coalescing of players onto a single project that was nost to start this journey and then becasue of the popularity get more and more players into it until it was so popular blizz had to actually pay attention and they did. And then because of that even more people found out. And then it restarted and was even more popular. If nost had just released their source code when they shut down the people would have scattered. Many of the servers would have been making money off of them and who knows what the quality would be, good or bad. But because they were careful and not open source we are where we are with a brighter future. At least I think so.

[Ram 11]

Nice Southshore art!