Gear gained through exploiting should be removed or suspensions prolonged

[Caber 4]

Hello.

Recently a horde guild double cleared parts of BWL. This was dealt with by a GM properly, the entire raid got a suspension for two days.

However, this did not make them miss out on a reset, and they got to keep their double cleared items. For reasons of not wanting this to be a drama thing, I'll hand out PM proof of these two facts to GMs if you require that.

I opened a ticket about it and was told this is proper procedure. This is impossibly an isolated case, and I hope you will agree there is a problem in this "punishment".

Hence, my suggestion.

 

Please actually punish players for exploiting ID issues. These players are a week ahead in loot, did not miss out a reset, and generally did not suffer a single consequence from doing it other than not being able to log in for 2 evenings. As a direct consequence of exploiting, they have gained a weeks worth of items, and have absolutely not suffered any drawbacks DESPITE GMs looking into it and deciding to take action. The action taken on them is wholly irrelevant and completely pointless.

It's a bit of a slap in the face that us honest players respect the server rules and obviously as such, don't gain any such advantage. However, the players that don't respect them, apparently do not suffer a single consequence. The message it's sending out is that it's ok to exploit, because the punishment does not at all change anything about the advantage you've gained by exploiting.

I hope you agree that the current counter measures to exploiting in this context are frankly speaking complete garbage and don't actually constitute as a punishment for the people who do it. There is literally zero tangible negative to doing it

 

Having said these things, here's in more concrete terms, some suggestions on how to fix this:

• Extend suspensions on raid ID bug abuse so that the raiders in question are forced to sit out a reset cycle of raiding at the very least in exchange for the gear they have gained by exploiting.
• Remove gear obtained through exploiting. If I was to abuse a bug to gain gold, surely that gold would be removed along with my punishment. Why not gear gained through bug abuse?
• Also perhaps change/update the ToU to reflect/explain how these things are being dealt with. From my perspective it just looks like you can exploit, benefit from it, then laugh at GMs for letting it happen.

I hope you will consider any or a combination of the above as a solution to this issue, and I especially hope that you can see why this is infuriating from a honest players perspective. I expect the other players to be honest too, and the consequences for severe exploits should discourage players from exploiting, rather than serving as a "hey, we can do it and we'll still come out ontop afterwards!" justification.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

 

[AciDTRiP 2]

op, there is something that also applies in the real world just as ingame

 

MYOFB

[Justme 9]

Does it matter that another guild has more gear then you?

[Ragward 2]

Its not that they received more gear then the rest of us ,its the point of if they were able to clear another reset and nothing happened why don't we just all start doing that and ignore all system messages hence forth as it was announced not to clear any reset and should be general knowledge not to clear a reset that has already been done.

I fully understand the OP logic and support this 100%.

[Justme 9]

That's not true. They did receive a punishment.
 

[Ragward 2]

2 days of not playing that didnt really affect anyone ,  They still kept all the gear gained through ILLEGAL exploits and ontop of that are now a week ahead of the rest of the raiders.

Fair enough the Devs did fuck up and didnt say straight off the bat that you cannot clear it again , but even so the gear gained through this should be removed and/or atleast ban them for a weeks worth of lockout to redeem the ill gotten goods.

if you cant see the logic behind this then you are simply arguing for the sake of it.

[Caber 4]

16 hours ago, AciDTRiP said:

op, there is something that also applies in the real world just as ingame

 

MYOFB

Fantastic response. Can almost feel you shaking in your boots about some item you gained by exploiting and dont want to lose.

 

To everyone saying it's not a big deal: Maybe not so, but it's a real advantage gained through exploiting. If you have any argument to make as to wether players should be able to exploit to gain an advantage, however small it may be, then NOT HAVE THIS ADVANTAGE REMOVED EVEN IF FOUND OUT, I think everyone is open to hear it.

[Caber 4]

To add to this, I am currently waiting on a ticket response about restoring our loot from a vael kill that despawned shortly after death. We have video proof and everything, but we're simply not receiving help.

We have been waiting for over 4 days now.

 

So here we are, raiders who dont exploit, a boss despawns after kill due to a bug, and we just dont fucking get the loot restored after 4 days. We're about to head back into BWL progression and we're just shit out of luck, no loot from the previous weeks progress.
meanwhile, there's raiders who exploit and doubleclear, and they get to keep their loot even though a GM specifically looked at the situation and deemed that fair.

 

Do you have any idea how infuriating this contrast is?

[Hudson 16]

Item restorations require a senior GM to investigate and thus will have a significantly longer wait time than most other issues.

[Undertanker 88]

 

And this is why "fresh servers" split, ney; shattered the Vanilla community.  So concerned with somebody having something you don't, instead of enjoying your time in game.

You will be forever behind this guild in theoretical loot progression.  Clearly the only logical thing to do is camp lowbies for days on end while waiting on Crestfall.  Don't forget a strawpoll on your exit.

[Sabre 5]

3 hours ago, Undertanker said:

 

And this is why "fresh servers" split, ney; shattered the Vanilla community.  So concerned with somebody having something you don't, instead of enjoying your time in game.

You will be forever behind this guild in theoretical loot progression.  Clearly the only logical thing to do is camp lowbies for days on end while waiting on Crestfall.  Don't forget a strawpoll on your exit.

Spotted the Anathema player.

[Caber 4]

On 10.8.2017 at 0:22 PM, Undertanker said:

 

And this is why "fresh servers" split, ney; shattered the Vanilla community.  So concerned with somebody having something you don't, instead of enjoying your time in game.

You will be forever behind this guild in theoretical loot progression.  Clearly the only logical thing to do is camp lowbies for days on end while waiting on Crestfall.  Don't forget a strawpoll on your exit.

Already addressed:

Quote

To everyone saying it's not a big deal: Maybe not so, but it's a real advantage gained through exploiting. If you have any argument to make as to wether players should be able to exploit to gain an advantage, however small it may be, then NOT HAVE THIS ADVANTAGE REMOVED EVEN IF FOUND OUT, I think everyone is open to hear it.

In other words, your opinion is not relevant, no matter how cleverly you try to phrase it (it wasn't clever). Arguments as to wether this is any way to deal with exploiters or not are relevant.

I'd please like to have less opinion pieces on how much this matters and more actual dev statements on why exploiters dont get punished, and consideration of my possible solutions, if possible.

 

By the way, we didn't get our loot restored on the Vael kill despite it being our only one. We didnt have the raid ID showing in the video. Just a heads up for everyone raiding who doesnt want to be dicked out of loot.

[flowqz 34]

if we knew the punishment was only 2days supsension we would have propably done it.

 

if ID fuckups ever happen again i guess most ppl will just reclear.

[Guest]

I would be very surprised if the GM Team went back to try to dig through logs with the devs/sysadmins to determine who reran multiple times. It ultimately doesn't really matter, without actually posting verifiable proof in an in-game ticket they did so the team doesn't have the time to dig through those logs to slap a bunch of people on the wrist for something that's pretty trivial compared to the hundreds of other things that are way more important at any given moment across all three servers.

[Shiamorah 20]

Imo players who double loot should get locked out of next week's raid :)

[Banezilla 2]

Thieves don't get to keep what they steal when they're caught, why do they?

[Ironsides 35]

Who cares, you'll be slaying BWL as cutting edge content for another year anyways.

[Banezilla 2]

17 minutes ago, Ironsides said:

Who cares, you'll be slaying BWL as cutting edge content for another year anyways.

No one likes a cheater. The punishment should deter people from exploiting, and it's not.

[Hurricane2 2]

24 minutes ago, Banezilla said:

No one likes a cheater. The punishment should deter people from exploiting, and it's not.

Exactly.

[Caber 4]

On 16.8.2017 at 7:57 PM, Phoosy said:

I would be very surprised if the GM Team went back to try to dig through logs with the devs/sysadmins to determine who reran multiple times. It ultimately doesn't really matter, without actually posting verifiable proof in an in-game ticket they did so the team doesn't have the time to dig through those logs to slap a bunch of people on the wrist for something that's pretty trivial compared to the hundreds of other things that are way more important at any given moment across all three servers.

Clearly determining wether or not they actually did rerun it wasn't an issue, because they did get 2 days bans. Missing the point a little bit here.

 

The point is that the punishment does not at all deter them from doing it again, or anyone else from doing it.

[Hudson 16]

 

50 minutes ago, Caber said:

Clearly determining wether or not they actually did rerun it wasn't an issue, because they did get 2 days bans. Missing the point a little bit here.

 

The point is that the punishment does not at all deter them from doing it again, or anyone else from doing it.

Repeated rule violations have much more serious consequences.

[Eyedie1 1]

5 hours ago, Hudson said:

 

Repeated rule violations have much more serious consequences.

So if I do it once i'm fine? Time to get twice as much loot next reset :)

[Caber 4]

On 22.8.2017 at 6:13 PM, Hudson said:

 

Repeated rule violations have much more serious consequences.

Then what is there to discourage first time offenses? It's still an issue in itself.

A super easy solution would be to just not let players keep items they gained through exploiting, which I'm gonna go ahead and say should be a completely appropriate action to take. I mean if I find a gold exploit and get a few thousand gold together, would you remove my gold, permaban me, or just give me a 2 day suspension then let me keep the gold I got? The latter seems ridiculous, yet thats pretty much exactly what happens to a guild that doubleclears.

[ismeckye 7]

21 hours ago, Hudson said:

 

Repeated rule violations have much more serious consequences.

But then again the warning of a permanent ban is the actual deterrent in this matter. Might as well dont ban at all the first time as a 2 days ban doenst interest anyone.

Let them play normally with the notification that they will be banned permanently when they exploit again.

I dont see how your flimsy temp is doing anything.

[QQsya 4]

I was recently banned on accident along with a handful of other accounts.  I made my appeal and went through the proper channels and it took me 3 days to finally get some attention and get unbanned, when I committed zero offense and have always played within the rules. 

Why are people who knowingly exploit bugs and break the rules getting off with lighter punishments than people who literally did nothing wrong?