Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Sorlis

Retribution - give me back what's mine

Recommended Posts

So recently Naxx comes out on Anathema. After a few months break I decide to come back. The Ret dream was finally going to happen! Plenty of undead and that means Exorcism! Exorcism with 6 seals of the Crusader! Rets were finally about to get their just reward for long months of being doubted, mocked and laughed at!
I was ready to assemble the crew once again! As an ex retribution officer in "Deepwater Crew" I was about to call up my ret boys and take Naxx by the storm!

But then... I find out about it. Seal stacking has been REMOVED from the game. You went out of your way to nerf us just as Naxx comes out!! And it's not like seal stacking was broken by any means! None of the big names exploited it, or used it to break raids. (inb4 you mention Wisdom stacking, first fix being able to drink water in combat on bosses where people wisdom stack).
I see this as an calculated attack on all retribution players, and striving away from Blizzlike servers for reasons unknown to me. Other than devs being horde ofc., not wanting to give us joy of playing this, still subpar, spec because of jealousy.

Elysium restore my character to what is Blizzlike!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Find proof that seals stacked and submit a bug report to Github and they will fix it.

They fixed people being able to drink in combat.

 

Edit: Find NEW evidence that hasn't already been discussed which the admins based their decision on. It needs to be clear evidence that seal stacking existed in vanilla. 

Edited by Silverlan
At bottom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Silverlan said:

Find proof that seals stacked and submit a bug report to Github and they will fix it.

They fixed people being able to drink in combat.

 

Edit: Find NEW evidence that hasn't already been discussed which the admins based their decision on. It needs to be clear evidence that seal stacking existed in vanilla. 

First off. Seal stacking was IN this game, on this server for a loong time now. I created my character, leveled it up and raided with a justified assumption of seal stacking working as intended. You present me evidence that it is not Blizzlike and that it absolutely needs to be CHANGED in order to preserve blizzlike realms.

Let me help you out, it is blizzlike, don't bother.

Edited by Sorlis
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is this is a private server and they have progressively fixed bugs. It does not matter what you assumed, if it is a bug it should be fixed. The same situation is with mages and clear casting procs on multiple mobs which was a nerf and a fix in one.

 

I have seen the evidence and not seen suitable evidence that they stack, the same as the admins on the server. Unfortunately the burden of proof is on you. It should be easy to find a video of seals stacking.... right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's pretty straightforward according to what the devs stated. In order for them to accept that seal stacking was in the game during vanilla they require proof in video form or an official blizzard statement from patch 1.8-1.12 that demonstrates it existed during that period. Despite evidence that it was in the game in tbc and stated in multiple places that it existed in vanilla prior to patch 1.8, they have decided that it was fixed behind the scenes and then reappeared during tbc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Decided that on what basis? So it's more likely that it was int the early months on vanilla, and during TBC, but even tho there's no proof that it was fixed on last few patches on vanilla, and then reappeared, we're just going to assume that? 

I mean who came up with that idea. Retribution is a broken spec that hurts nobody, and certainly is not OP. But we still assume stuff that's going to destroy it, even when we have to work on assumptions and can assume otherwise. I mean come on, what is the real reason here? I want to know!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The aim of this server is to make the game blizzlike. If a abilities acted a certain way in vanilla then they should continue on this server. If an ability is not working as intended it should be fixed. This is the real reason behind the fix.

 

There has been massive debate on this issue already so i understand if you haven't read it. Have a look at the following link and it will go a bit further into detail. 

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/2495

 

There are other github reports and forum debates but this summarises well. As always if you have new evidence that seals could stack in vanilla then please post it but I hope you can read the link and understand why they made the choice they did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/20/2017 at 1:57 PM, Xaph said:

It's pretty straightforward according to what the devs stated. In order for them to accept that seal stacking was in the game during vanilla they require proof in video form or an official blizzard statement from patch 1.8-1.12 that demonstrates it existed during that period. Despite evidence that it was in the game in tbc and stated in multiple places that it existed in vanilla prior to patch 1.8, they have decided that it was fixed behind the scenes and then reappeared during tbc.

This statement and decision was decided by devs/testers and quality assurance according to assumptions , none of them had any evidence for Judgements stacking removal between 1.8-1.12 , unfortunately and nothing is going to change/reverse their decision i am afraid.

On 9/20/2017 at 5:52 PM, Sorlis said:

I mean who came up with that idea

All the credits for "disappear and reappear" idea you can give to whole Crestfall , Crestfall beta testers (they was strongly involved in this) and the Elysium Quality Assurance + Phoosy + Hudson (supporting it).

/Kind regards Killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, killerduki said:

All the credits for "disappear and reappear" idea you can give to whole Crestfall , Crestfall beta testers (they was strongly involved in this) and the Elysium Quality Assurance + Phoosy + Hudson (supporting it).

Sounds like a bunch of petty sad basement dwelling horde to me. They probably have their whole identities revolving around chain lightnings and spooky skeletons. While other classes have their "bugs" that are being worked on, they work on removing features from class that is undertuned. And for what? Blizzlike? Give me a break and take a look at the server.

12 hours ago, ScottK1994 said:

Seals did not stack until TBC with Seal of Vengeance

When we talk about "seal stacking" we really mean judgement stacking. You can't have more than one seal on you (unless you're seal bending) ofc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Sorlis said:

Sounds like a bunch of petty sad basement dwelling horde to me.

Shut up you moonbeam. People have given an explanation as to why it doesn't exist. Throwing out stuff like this will do nothing to help you at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sorlis said:

When we talk about "seal stacking" we really mean judgement stacking. You can't have more than one seal on you (unless you're seal bending) ofc.

excuse me for not knowing you mean triangle when you say square.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sorlis said:

When we talk about "seal stacking" we really mean judgement stacking

Alright now this thread makes a bit more sense. Stacking active seals would probably be amazing and game breaking.

As for stacking judgements on a target - it never seemed that much of a big deal to me, specially when the stacking is limited to the amount of different ranks a seal can have. I mean, the benefits of having three Judgements of Light/Wisdom on a big-ass target like a raidboss do add up and can add greatly to the regeneration rate of the raid, but even still... one would need first need three paladins who are actively keeping their judgements up for that much of a boost. As the value of health/mana restored by max rank judgement of light/wisdom is roughly the same as the next two ranks combined.. I dont know, im probably not the best person to talk about this as i know very little about shamans and horde side raidbuffs and such, but having multiple judgements up couldnt have disrupted balance that much, could it?

For me - i always thought the best thing one could do with that was to stack Judgements of the Crussader (holy damage multiplier). Laying down all 6 different ranks would add up to 500ish spell damage*, add to that the PvP gloves benefit for an additional 100ish SP* - and you got yourself some holy damage, baby. Priests smitin' like crazy and retribution dudes could do some increased damage too.

23 hours ago, killerduki said:

This statement and decision was decided by devs/testers and quality assurance according to assumptions , none of them had any evidence for Judgements stacking removal between 1.8-1.12 , unfortunately and nothing is going to change/reverse their decision i am afraid.

If true. This really, really sucks. Pains me to see the devs actively going out of their way to prevent creative and dedicated players from making novelty builds like rets and protpaladins from working at maximum potential with the tools the class have been given.

* - citation needed (maths and adding up spell values isnt my strongest skill)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Feradir said:

I dont know, im probably not the best person to talk about this as i know very little about shamans and horde side raidbuffs and such, but having multiple judgements up couldnt have disrupted balance that much, could it?

It actually would break a couple encounters making them simple for alliance. The biggest case is Loatheb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the paladin forum so I can understand there being some bias however the developers are not trying to purposely nerf a class. They are fixing bugs when they appear.

If you want to prove something existed in vanilla then find evidence. They can not implement something based on hearsay. It's as simple as this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Xaph said:

It actually would break a couple encounters making them simple for alliance. The biggest case is Loatheb.

Same as Loatheb/Twins making it simple for Horde using Windfury , since threats are not working like any normal encounters there.

/Kind regards Killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Silverlan said:

They are fixing bugs when they appear.

 Stacking judgements has been there since Nostalrius so its not exactly a new thing. If its a bug and they ironed it out, good on them. BUT If its a feature that got binned with the excuse of balance - that needs to be reverted. True there will always be bias when discussing skills and classes but im not a huge fan when it comes down to the destruction of faction variety (in any game, really). The shaman and the paladin are so different from one another that comparing them or to try and equalize them is pointless. They both have skills and abilities that can add greatly to the entire raid to a point of trivializing encounters.

Just sad to see how the removal of stacking judgements in order to appease the meta crowd has severely hurt and maybe even prevented all other type of paladin play than the one set in stone 10 years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Feradir said:

 Stacking judgements has been there since Nostalrius so its not exactly a new thing. If its a bug and they ironed it out, good on them. BUT If its a feature that got binned with the excuse of balance - that needs to be reverted. True there will always be bias when discussing skills and classes but im not a huge fan when it comes down to the destruction of faction variety (in any game, really). The shaman and the paladin are so different from one another that comparing them or to try and equalize them is pointless. They both have skills and abilities that can add greatly to the entire raid to a point of trivializing encounters.

The fix was not to balance, and the server does not try and balance classes. I too like the idea of a paladin/ priest holy crusade raid with stacked judgements but if it's not included in vanilla then it should not be included now.

This is similar to the previously mentioned clear casting bug (chance to proc per hit as opposed to per cast) meaning mages used to be able to farm BRD very easily. However it was a stock mangos bug included from the start of nost, and was fixed using input on the github. This was not a balance change to nerf mages, purely ironing out bugs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Silverlan said:

The fix was not to balance, and the server does not try and balance classes.

This isn't true. All vanilla servers including this one have nerfed spell damage scaling from items like Fiery Retributer and Fiery Plate Gauntlets for balance reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Xaph said:

This isn't true. All vanilla servers including this one have nerfed spell damage scaling from items like Fiery Retributer and Fiery Plate Gauntlets for balance reasons.

This is false statement,  Fiery Plate Gauntlet and Fiery Retributer was proven via oldshcool Videos.

It was not nerfed for balance reason , it was nerfed because it was proven that way.

In other side Stacking Judgements removal was not proven and they removed it based on assumptions.

/Kind regards Killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole "judgment" stacking sounds like a positive claim, provide evidence or it'll get scrapped. A negative claim on the other hand does not require evidence as the lack of opposing evidence is enough. Find 1 exception to a theory and it gets scrapped. Until such time it is taken as true.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×