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morfisia

Darrowshire Merge NO

Darrowshire Not Merge  

101 members have voted

  1. 1. You want Darrowshire Pve server forever?

    • Yes
      64
    • No
      37


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Quote

Q: "Is anything planned for population decline on Anathema and Darrowshire such as merges?"
A: Yes. We will accelerate the timeline for Elysium and after the Naxxramas race is over, we will merge Elysium and Anathema (and maybe Darrowshire). This will all happen before the release of the TBC realms!

 

Hi guys

this announcement leaves a bit perplexed, this project was born with 2 pvp servers and one pve, there is no reason to "merge" 2 different ways to play, if the DEV needs to merge 2 servers ok, it is not possible to "merge" PVP and PVE because it would be a failure to respect the players who chose the PVE.

I call for a vote to explain to DEV how much the will of the players to stay in PVE

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While I get some people wanting to play on a PvE realm, if the demand isn't high enough then there's not much choice.  Keeping a server alive and pouring costs into it doesn't make sense if the population on the realm isn't high enough.  If that's the case, merging makes the most sense.

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17 minutes ago, Myllz said:

While I get some people wanting to play on a PvE realm, if the demand isn't high enough then there's not much choice.  Keeping a server alive and pouring costs into it doesn't make sense if the population on the realm isn't high enough.  If that's the case, merging makes the most sense.

merge 2 pvp realms, because the problem is of Anathema with low population, Darrowshire is increasing

 

Edited by morfisia

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1 minute ago, morfisia said:

can merge 2 pvp realms  is enough

Merging Anathema and Elysium doesn't do anything for Darrowshire, which means you're keeping a low population server running with associated costs for a small percentage of the playerbase.

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How about a Character Transfer from Elysium to Darrowshire?

in my case i have chosen Elysium to have a Population on the server.. but lags and sometimes queue are killing the fun. (queue took only 25 minutes and had only a few times)

is there any chance to get at whole Character-Realm-transfer done by donating some money? (just a question ! :) )

And of Course the PVP aspect. Yes i did choose a PVP server, but only in the matter of having a population.

(when creatng my acc there were Realm-status of PVE like ~200 .. on the whole server, with like 6.000 on pvp-elysium .. ;&

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33 minutes ago, Myllz said:

it doesn't make sense if the population on the realm isn't high enough.

Define HIGH ENOUGH.

Don't use WORDS, which are imprecise (and "weasily" for our purposes here) ... use NUMBERS.

What is the threshold for viability?

1000+ Players?  Darrowshire beats than number of concurrent logins daily right now for multiple hours at a stretch without breaking a sweat.

Even better yet, what were the expectations of concurrent logins for a server by Blizzard back in the day for whether a server's population was "healthy" or not?  Sure, granted, NOW we have server hardware and software configurations that can blow way past those limits (as Elysium does daily), but the population density on Elysium is anything BUT "Blizz-like" for those people who want to adhere to that tradition (rather than wield it like a cudgel only against things they don't like).

If memory serves (granted, faulty and imprecise source of reference), Blizzard would start a login queue at around 2k concurrent logins on a server, back in the day, to prevent population overloads like what we now see (daily) on Elysium.

Darrowshire isn't DEAD.  It's more sparsely populated than Elysium, but it hasn't been abandoned by its Players.  Indeed, the (so called) "Death" of Darrowshire has been hyped beyond all objective reason at this point by people who want to cannibalize it into being yet another PvP server.

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1 hour ago, Myllz said:

While I get some people wanting to play on a PvE realm, if the demand isn't high enough then there's not much choice. 

Anathema and Darrowshire are close enough in term of population, even more when you count that Anathema just got new content while Darrowshire is about to get some so they are still doing the same stuff as 9 months ago.

Those that heard about Nost after it was close and wanted to start fresh had choose between PVP and an other PVP. To show how PVP have a bad player retention, they had to close one of the 2.

Don't talk about demand when Nost/Elysium have always only offer PVP must of the time.

Analogy time : If you make a product only available in the color red then 6 months later you release a green version then 1 year later you do a red only re-release., your numbers will show you sold more red... 

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1 hour ago, Roxanne Flowers said:

Define HIGH ENOUGH.

Don't use WORDS, which are imprecise (and "weasily" for our purposes here) ... use NUMBERS.

What is the threshold for viability?

1000+ Players?  Darrowshire beats than number of concurrent logins daily right now for multiple hours at a stretch without breaking a sweat.

Even better yet, what were the expectations of concurrent logins for a server by Blizzard back in the day for whether a server's population was "healthy" or not?  Sure, granted, NOW we have server hardware and software configurations that can blow way past those limits (as Elysium does daily), but the population density on Elysium is anything BUT "Blizz-like" for those people who want to adhere to that tradition (rather than wield it like a cudgel only against things they don't like).

If memory serves (granted, faulty and imprecise source of reference), Blizzard would start a login queue at around 2k concurrent logins on a server, back in the day, to prevent population overloads like what we now see (daily) on Elysium.

Darrowshire isn't DEAD.  It's more sparsely populated than Elysium, but it hasn't been abandoned by its Players.  Indeed, the (so called) "Death" of Darrowshire has been hyped beyond all objective reason at this point by people who want to cannibalize it into being yet another PvP server.

That's not my call, so I'm not going to come up with numbers.  That's up to the Elysium staff.  If they decide the population of Darrowshire is high enough to sustain their own server, then great.  All I'm saying is that the costs of keeping a server running isn't feasible if the demand isn't high enough, and if that's the case it makes the most sense to merge Darrowshire into Anathema/Ely.

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27 minutes ago, Oudeis said:

Anathema and Darrowshire are close enough in term of population, even more when you count that Anathema just got new content while Darrowshire is about to get some so they are still doing the same stuff as 9 months ago.

Yeah, and Anathema is getting merged into Elysium, so that's not the greatest argument.

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42 minutes ago, Myllz said:

Yeah, and Anathema is getting merged into Elysium, so that's not the greatest argument.

I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Merge before Ely Naxx patch? So you remove gear and a raid tier from Anathema player? That stupid. 

Merge right when Ely get Naxx? Boom, new raid... with 20%(looking at the population atm) already geared with that raid gear, not great...

Merge when Ely is a couple of month inside Naxx? Will there be a server left to merge with? 

Also merging server with 1,5k / 2k?No Thanks, Ely crash way more often then the 2 others, that mean it already struggle with it`s current population. Those population are right now perfect minus horde Darrowshire. But who even care, if a side as bad population on a pvp server that might mean the other faction are just ganking them to hard and they are leaving because of that. On a pve server, if one side struggle it's because they are so toxic they have push away their own faction. Now they cry on this forum like what Nelythia do.

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57 minutes ago, Oudeis said:

Also merging server with 1,5k / 2k?No Thanks,

It's pointless talking about whether or not it would be good or bad. The merge is actually happening at some point (doesn't matter when), so there isn't much left to say.

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4 hours ago, Turnip said:

The only problem I see with this thread is that people will troll the voting

Trolls on the internet?  Really?  When did the internet join the Horde?

I'm kidding of course, but not by much ...

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As a die-hard Horde PvE player, Elysium's 10/10/17 announcement that all servers will probably be merged into 2 PvP servers before TBC's release was the deathknell of my personal participation as well as the demise of the best legacy WoW PvE server in existence.  This is a sad, short-sighted decision.

There will always be players who will never play on a world PvP server.  Removing this option will only create another loss to the playerbase, including mine.  Elysium has provided an excellent vanilla WoW experience, but this lack of consideration for the PvE players shows a lack of foresight and respect for their patronage.

And so it appears that our only hope is Crestfall's PvP + PvE server structure.  It's a shame that we have about another year to wait for their Benediction core, but there's no reason to continue advancing on Darrowshire when we already know that PvE players are probably going to be forced onto a PvP server.

Tip - When you're running a business, even if it's a non-profit business, never take away your patron's options.  Some of those patrons will go elsewhere and take their donations with them.

 

 

Edited by Grung

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"Customers"

There is not enough demand to give Darrowshire a TBC PvE server when Crestfall will have a PTE PvE server as well.
Keep in mind Darrowshire chars will also still be on the vanilla Elysium servers, which means players that don't want to play TBC will stay there and are already removed from the count. As well as players that will want to join Crestfall due to fresh start, which are not to be taken into account for Darrowshire TBC PvE either.

You keep demanding a further splitting of the "PvE" community, when there is already too low of a demand.

This is a volunteer based project that relys on money and as such regular donations by players. Not a business.

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4 minutes ago, Nelythia said:

You keep demanding a further splitting of the "PvE" community

Funny you should say that, since your stance on this issue has consistently been in favor of outright ELIMINATING the PvE servers in their entirely in every thread touching on this topic on these forums, so your bias is becoming more than abundantly obvious.  Just because you're happier with no loaf at all, doesn't mean that everyone agrees with your option that half a loaf can never be enough.

7 minutes ago, Nelythia said:

there is already too low of a demand.

Stop using Weasel Words™ that could mean anything you want to serve your personal vendetta agenda.  What is "too low" ... specifically?  Use numbers.  Really, it's not that hard.  How many concurrent logins are "too low of a demand" as you put it.  There's no need to exact.  Nice round numbers will do.  Multiples of 100 will work just fine.

1000 concurrent logins?
1400 concurrent logins?
2000 concurrent logins?
5000 concurrent logins?
6500 concurrent logins?

Your use of "too low" demands a benchmark to measure "too low" AGAINST in order to make an INFORMED value judgement about the merit of your assertion.  Congratulations on not providing an answer that can be MEASURED in any objective fashion.

Note that "No matter what you say I'm right, so there!" is not arguing in good faith.

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I play on RP-PvE realm "Die Nachtwache" (German) at the moment. It has a population of less than 50 people online around 2:00am-6:00am, not including x-realm players. That is low, but by far not the lowest population realm. That has been the case during Classic and TBC, too. European realms don't share a bunch of time zones, so during the night they have always been ghost towns.

This is one specific example that shows the madness behind "Darrowshire is dead". You will never see such low numbers on Darrowshire, because it's an international realm. The realm feels quite vibrant compared to mid and low population retail realms from today and the past, especially before the introduction of x-realm.

Not every realm must be 8k players like Elysium. Before Nostalrius, I had played on The Rebirth for years, a very solid 1.12 realm from the past. It had 200-500 players online most of the time and was still very enjoyable, although super-dead if I look at it from your perspective.

 

For silent readers: Nelythia is a R14 horde player on Darrowshire and frustrated with the server. Instead of doing anything constructive, he is just flaming in every thread for that topic and tries to destroy the server and its community with his toxic insults.

Thank you Roxanne Flowers for dealing with his arguments.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mahtan said:

I play on RP-PvE realm "Die Nachtwache" (German) at the moment. It has a population of less than 50 people online around 2:00am-6:00am, not including x-realm players. That is low, but by far not the lowest population realm. That has been the case during Classic and TBC, too. European realms don't share a bunch of time zones, so during the night they have always been ghost towns.

This is one specific example that shows the madness behind "Darrowshire is dead". You will never see such low numbers on Darrowshire, because it's an international realm. The realm feels quite vibrant compared to mid and low population retail realms from today and the past, especially before the introduction of x-realm.

Not every realm must be 8k players like Elysium. Before Nostalrius, I had played on The Rebirth for years, a very solid 1.12 realm from the past. It had 200-500 players online most of the time and was still very enjoyable, although super-dead if I look at it from your perspective.

 

For silent readers: Nelythia is a R14 horde player on Darrowshire and frustrated with the server. Instead of doing anything constructive, he is just flaming in every thread for that topic and tries to destroy the server and its community with his toxic insults.

Thank you Roxanne Flowers for dealing with his arguments.

 

 

You need to look at it from a cost and maintenance standpoint, though.  Having a low population realm may be fine when talking about it from an enjoyment standpoint, but is it feasible from Elysium's standpoint?  Is it worth keeping the hardware and GM/development team behind it running to keep a small portion of the community happy?  Obviously they want to keep as many people playing and happy as possible, but it gets to a point where it's just not feasible economically or from a time/volunteer standpoint. 

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1 hour ago, Myllz said:

Obviously they want to keep as many people playing and happy as possible, but it gets to a point where it's just not feasible economically or from a time/volunteer standpoint. 

Care to put (other people's) money where your mouth is?

Stop waving your hands in the air while being as vague as possible by omitting ANYTHING remotely resembling, you know ... NUMBERS.

You're basically making what amounts to a financial claim based on ... poetry and prose ... rather than numbers used in the maths of finances.

C'mon people, this isn't that hard.  Use your NUMBERS, not your WORDS.

As for the straw man argument of "dividing" the community ... consider that the alternative is to tell the community to GO AWAY because We Don't Serve Your Kind Here™.  I find it ironic that some people think that banishment and exile is preferable to having a choice of servers to play on.

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You sure are stubborn as hell about this argument, aren't you?

It's not up to us to decide the minimum amount needed to run a PvE Server, we will all have diferent opinions on these numbers. Just imagine I say at least 2000 players online at all times, while you say 1000 and another random says 3000. Who's right then? What did you achieve by getting the numbers out of their mouth then?

It's up to the Elysium Staff to decide whether or not Darrowshire is worth keeping, by checking the costs and the amount of players interested in playing. Stop asking for numbers.

 

As for my opinion, I say just merge Darrowshire with the other 2. Don't waste money.

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