Concern about 'New server'

[qiancc 0]

Greetings,

 

My opinion is that the launching of new server will rarefy the population and ultimately cause unbalance and collapse of the server. It could be an alarmist, but it is never harmful to learn the possibility. It seems the develop team is pretty confident about the prospective population for 3 servers. Noted that the confidence is merely build on previous data that collect for Blizzard to believe that there is actually lots of players fond vanilla WOW (It could be counterfeit). Of course putting the misgivings aside, my personal experience in Nostalrius couldn't lie about the population size. It is tremendous no doubt. Nonetheless population is not the crux of the issue. It is the emerge of the new server that will cause collapse. Just see what happened in Kronos.

 

Let us see who will play in the new server (for the most part):

• New players who never played Nostalrius (unknown)
• Players who have not reached 60 in Nostalrius (large in number)
• Premium players with almost full gear in current version, and are interesting to build a new character (very few)
• Player who reached 60 with average gear, and are interesting to build a new character (large in number, and they could end up on either side depending on server status)

Relying on players' preference, the server population determine which one we stay whether in a profit or non-profit server. Assuming Elysium has sufficient capacity after opening and operate smoothly (The team might just need to reconsider the possibility that the population might not be as many as they thought). Do you see the problem? Most of the original population will transfer into the new server. The sequel comes together with a snowball effect, as more players plunge into new server the old Nostalrius server shrinks little by little. In the end, the overpopulation that occurred months ago will happen again in the new server. At that moment, the distinct divergence in population between Nostalrius and Elysium server will make the team redetermine which server to shut down, since the weekly maintenance effort is not worthy (at least not for a dead server). 

 

Part of the community might say it is okay, since we just want the flourish of the server we are playing on. I am sure that is not the intention of the developer deciding to run three servers in the first place. Either running with Nostalrius PVP/PVE or new server only, the team got to decide.  As a vanilla fan myself, I sincerely hope the team ruminate on this. I mean I have a R14 character with Zulian Tiger in Nostalrius PVP, but I don't mind if they decide new server only. 

Edited November 12, 2016 by qiancc

[Shayss 43]

Allow me to give you some insight that should quell your scepticism.

 

Nostalrius started smallish (I personaly think it was small) with 5k online. The number didn't just appear ofc, it took a couple of months to get there but the thing is it didn't stop growing. More and more players kept coming. They were forced to change thier spawn times on certain things and even open up a PVE server.

 

This was like a bandage. The servers kept on growing and Nost was even in the process of development for server clustering. If I was a betting man It would be pretty clear that these 3 servers will not be enough to contain the thousands of new players and old players returning and starting.

 

Anything can happen ofc but if you think there is going to be any server shut down from the Elysium-nost teams side you are sorely mistaken.

[Pottu 290]

Nostalrius actually started with 3k concurrent peaks. It slowly grew from there.

[Shayss 43]

Nostalrius actually started with 3k concurrent peaks. It slowly grew from there.

^ hehe, that's rather far off what I remember but it does go to show just the sheer increase in volume.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Shayss

[blastermaster8 0]

This seems to be the concern of many players, veteran or fresh, that the new servers will effectively kill the population on the old PvP & PvE realms from sheer attrition and lack of new population influx.

 

Historically, when a server releases a "fresh start" option, very few of the playerbase remains on the previous incarnation of the game(See: Diablo 2 Ladders, Scriptcraft, K1-K2, Feenix, Molten).  Regardless of how well the server is scripted, the population still follows a hivemind or locust behavior as others have named it, and they all flock to the brand new realm.

 

My question is, was the option of simply NOT releasing a fresh start realm even considered?  I feel this course of action would help keep communities together instead of fractured across several tiers of content and communication barriers. 

 

Many returning guilds are basing their future endeavors on the decisions made and discussed in the upcoming weeks, so I only hope that we get a solid conversation on the matters.

[j9a2per1990 32]

Guys, please, stop. Me, my guild and many, many and really many (I hope that's clear) players want new "fresh" server, new beginning. Idea when i play with my new little hero with guys in T2 and with R12+ is horrible, absolutely! And really i don't care crap about these big guys are at server minority. Just start new realm for guys like me. No more. You, you have right, but our new project Elystarius/Nostalysium need more then one PvP realm, this is another fact. So don't be pessimistic.

[Shayss 43]

Guys, please, stop. Me, my guild and many, many and really many (I hope that's clear) players want new "fresh" server, new beginning. Idea when i play with my new little hero with guys in T2 and with R12+ is horrible, absolutely! And really i don't care crap about these big guys are at server minority. Just start new realm for guys like me. No more. You, you have right, but our new project Elystarius/Nostalysium need more then one PvP realm, this is another fact. So don't be pessimistic.

 

There will be 3 realms. They have stated that the old PvP realm will open first. You can do what I will do and wait for the fresh PvP realm.

 

Also, from what I read, it sounds like you only want the fresh realm opened? Get lost you selfish bastard.

[j9a2per1990 32]

No, no, mate. This is maybe only my poor english. Sorry. Sure, open also our good, old Nost. I have there my own characters (but my guild want start at "fresh") and for many players this it's best choice and respect that.

Edited November 12, 2016 by j9a2per1990

[Tholren 7]

I actually believe the population will sort itself out and the dev team will manage the existing realms according to necessity. Had they not offered the option to start fresh or to retrieve people's old character there would be a riot, thus, by offering all possible options the decision as to where to play falls on the community alone. If, and that's a big if there, one of the realms (be it the one with old characters or the fresh one) ends up becoming a ghost town that is just a resource dump I don't think they'll hesitate to redirect those resources into more useful things. So, in short, I don't think the initial community divide will cause long term issues. If anything, it's giving the freedom to play the game as they wish, which is great.

[Shayss 43]

No, no, mate. This is maybe only my poor english. Sorry. Sure, open also our good, old Nost. I have there my own characters (but my guild want start at "fresh") and for many players this it's best choice and respect that.

 

kk np, I misinterpret what you meant.

[slippery 4]

How people fail to realize that the old server will die eventually from lack of new, NEW players is beyond me.

 

People quit.

No one joins old servers.

More people quit.

No one joins servers that are on AQ when a different one is on MC.

More people quit.

Server dies.

[Shayss 43]

How people fail to realize that the old server will die eventually from lack of new, NEW players is beyond me.

 

People quit.

No one joins old servers.

More people quit.

No one joins servers that are on AQ when a different one is on MC.

More people quit.

Server dies.

 

You decided to come play old or going fresh? Personally I wouldn't mind your autism on either. Infact I wouldn't mind if all of you NOPE guys came back. ^^

[slippery 4]

You decided to come play old or going fresh? Personally I wouldn't mind your autism on either. Infact I wouldn't mind if all of you NOPE guys came back. ^^

All of NOPE playing old, I'll be playing both.

[Kjukecke 545]

There are always people who want a challenge on fresh realm. I think that the long term strategy which could work is:

1) Having core realms which number and type is based on population and preferences.

2) Opening fresh realm every n years and after n years close it and transfer characters to core realms.

There could be an achievement board or something on a website with guilds and characters names of those who did something on every fresh realm like first lvl 60, first raid bosses kills etc. Personally, I don't care about this part of the game, but I can understand people who want to do it.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Kjukecke

[Mecher 0]

old server is inevitably going to dwindle substantially come AQ/Naxx release, it is inevitable and has occured on every server to date as new servers release

im just hoping that with the release schedule for the servers and the sheer number of people that were present, old nost DB server retains enough players to not be rebirth tier by the time Naxx rolls around. regardless, i will be playing both most likely

Edited November 12, 2016 by Mecher

[Docholy 4]

This "A new server will kill pop!" is so far from accurate it would be fair to call those people liars.  The pop will be just fine, heck the pvp server can stand to lose 10k people and it will still be bloated.  

[slarkstob 1]

2) Opening fresh realm every n years and after n years close it and transfer characters to core realms.

There could be an achievement board or something on a website with guilds and characters names of those who did something on every fresh realm like first lvl 60, first raid bosses kills etc. Personally, I don't care about this part of the game, but I can understand people who want to do it.

 

That's one of the better ideas I've seen, props mate. Pretty difficult to implement I imagine.

[maverick 11]

shut up about the fresh start server

[Walgrave 10]

I have to agree with the OP. This is a proven problem when you have identical servers competing with each other on different patch cycles. This problem will not manifest in Day 1. It will take a few months, slowly degrading the leveling population of the old server. Meaning, you will eventually only see heavily geared people raid logging and PvP will only exist for the few max levels who wish to pursue it, while the PvP audience already finished their ranking. Due to the lack of new 60s to keep the PvP scene, the PvP population pool suffers and wanes; providing less rank points, limiting bracket 1 slots and making ranking more for the hardcore on this realm. Additionally, due to the lack of new 60's to gear up in 5/10 mans, the scene shrinks. Guilds will not have the new people they need to replace people who have quit, so guilds will have to merge or collapse, creating a lot of tension. 

 

Social media and all forms of self-marketing platforms encourage new players to roll on the fresh realm. This is natural, people want new players to have fun while they level, to find an active PvP population at all levels and to have a proper progressive experience at level 60 with Patch 1.4 items. There is only one realm that offers them this experience. This cycle will always favor the newer realm. It will essentially become the main realm. AKA. Center of focus. The older realm becoming the "PTR" realm meme has already begun, if you look around the various forums. 

 

I have no doubt the team has already discussed this, they know of the consequence. What are the plans to keep the older realm an attractive place for new players, not just short-term but long-term? Just ask the community to police it? Because it won't, that didn't work when you asked the community for Elysium's population growth prior to Nostalrius core, that will not work now or in the future or ever. It will divide the community.

• Premium players with almost full gear in current version, and are interesting to build a new character (very few)

Yes, I have invested a lot into the old server from Day 1, but once the new realm comes online, I'm there. You cannot pass up the experience of a fresh launch if you like MMOs. The world PvP will flourish. The community will be hustling & bustling all over the world; questing, gathering mats, doing 5 mans, making friends and enemies, while the old server folks sit on their barrels and wagons in Ironforge waiting for the BG queue to pop or the clock to tick 7:00 to start heading out to clear farmed raids.

 

The eff would you choose?

 

Edit: To be a bit more productive, I decided to list some possible solutions:-

• Server caps. Manipulate server caps to ensure people are rolling on both to avoid longer queues. Problem occurs if neither realm reaches cap - forced queues would have to be done, which wouldn't be ideal. (Please do instant queue-skip for 60s, it would suck to delay raids)
• Launch the fresh server at the same progression state as the Old PvP server. So new players have a choice if they want to join existing guilds on old server or form new teams with undergeared people with a slow starting raiding scene. This will make management of the servers much easier, as patching will be in the exact same stage, including bug and item fixes. Allows for later server merge if population on one dwindles.
• Pre-announce TBC exclusively first on the old server. So TBC lovers can level and keep the leveling scene alive while waiting for the TBC swap. This might be useless if another project releases a good TBC. (kek) Anyway, I doubt any significant progress has gone into making that possibility real.
• (Unpopular Option) Release old servers (PvP and PvE) a significant amount of time before the fresh server, forcing new lifeblood to level (or continue leveling) to max level on the old server and join struggling guilds who are all going to be massively recruiting people, to replace lost raiders. This is a band-aid fix. Once the fresh realm is up the problem of lack of levelers will return. 

Or a combination of the above. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by Walgrave

[Undertanker 88]

• Launch the fresh server at the same progression state as the Old PvP server. So new players have a choice if they want to join existing guilds on old server or form new teams with undergeared people with a slow starting raiding scene. This will make management of the servers much easier, as patching will be in the exact same stage, including bug and item fixes. Allows for later server merge if population on one dwindles.

 

This would also allow for cross realm BGs to be implemented when/if ever needed, since both servers would be on the same patch for gear availability.  OFC don't have this at the start, only if never needed.

 

I think the new server may stick to a quicker content release time than Nost 1.0 went through since they won't have to PTR BWL/ZG.  They can just open next content after they feel enough guilds have cleared it.   I feel confident that if there was ever an issue on Nost realm with guilds having to merge/collapse just to do the latest content, they would inquire/ponder a merge with Elysium server IF they reach the same patch/time line.   Such as AQ out for a long time on Nost, out for 1 month on Elysium, merge them to keep that high pop/guild roster availability, and then drop the Scourage invasion once Elysium people have had time to hit AQ for a bit of time.

 

Either way I feel confident that the admins will do what is best for the masses if a time such as ^ came up.

[Shayss 43]

I hope we don't get cross realm BGs.

 

That was one of the first steps blizz made to wreck thier game.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Shayss

[Tholren 7]

I hope we don't get cross realm BGs.

 

That was one of the first steps blizz made to wreck thier game.

Keep in mind that having cross realm BGs between 3 realms wouldn't present the problem of lack of realm identity that the retail realms had.

[maverick 11]

I hope we don't get cross realm BGs.

 

That was one of the first steps blizz made to wreck thier game.

cross realm bg's had nothing to do with vanilla, if that happens theres always crestfall.

[Undertanker 88]

Keep in mind that having cross realm BGs between 3 realms wouldn't present the problem of lack of realm identity that the retail realms had.

 

Not as bad, but the real issue is gear availability per realm.   You'd had Nost-PVP premade going up against Elsyium-PVP premade.   AQ40 gear vs Dire Maul maybe BWL gear.

[Cabbage 0]

It is kind of ugly having two identical realms competing with each other - seems like the fresh will drain the old at least temporarily.

 

Wonder if a choice should have been made to either do fresh start for both PvE and PvP, or just bring back the old realms and pretend like Nost never went down.