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Twilight Sparkle

Pre-Raid BiS For Rogues on Elysium PvP (patch 1.2)

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Figured I would post the actual pre-raid BiS for rogues due to some errors on the google spreadsheet everyone tosses around. These are on launch, DM items not included.

Head: Mask of the Unforgiven (Living Strat)

Neck: Mark of Fordring (Tirion questline beginning in EPL)

Shoulders: Truestrike Shoulders (UBRS First Boss)

Cape: Cape of the Black Baron (Dead Strat Baron Rivendare)

Chest: Cadaverous Armour (Rare Drop in Scholo from minibosses)

Wrist: Deepfury Bracers (World Drop)

Gloves: Devilsaur Gloves (Crafted by Tribal LW)

Belt: Cloudrunner Girdle (Quartermaster Zigris in LBRS)

Legs: Devilsaur Pants (Crafted by Tribal LW)

Boots: Swiftwalker Boots (Princess in BRD, must kill her)

Rings: Blackstone Ring (Theradras from Inner Mara) / Painweaver Band (UBRS Drakkisath)

Trinkets: Hand of Justice (Dagren Thaurissan from BRD) / Blackhand's Breadth (Onyxia Attunement)

Ranged: Blackcrow (Shadow Hunter in LBRS, technically speaking Riphook is more DPS gain however given stat values)

 

Weapons:

 

Swords : Dal'rends Set

 

Daggers: Felstriker / Felstriker (Given this is unrealistic your best odds are going swords until you get raid daggers)

 

 

Few things to note:

 

Cadaverous Armour is the best chestpiece by a mile, the closest alternative outside raiding is the UBRS one from Father Flame (Nightbrace Tunic). If for some reason you can't get either of these, Tombstone Breastplate from Scholo.

 

For boots, Swiftwalker and Pads of the Dread Wolf are actually very close, literally doesn't make a difference what you choose in the end. Though I advise Swiftwalker's over Dread Wolf just simply because agility is more universal though the dps gain is literally less than one.

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So, all the items you mentioned are in the google spreadsheet?..

 

Read my response to your post in your topic on why your list is inaccurate. I've been meaning to expand upon this and explain the reasoning behind the differences of our lists as well as explaining how far apart your options are.

 

I do applaud the fact you took the time out of your day to downvote me because I gave people an actual correct list instead of an inaccurate google document that has been explained countless times as why it's wrong by multiple people regarding rogues and other classes.

Edited by Twilight Sparkle

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Why the Google Document is inaccurate:

Using Oto's Stat Weights which on Nostalrius were the generally accepted amongst the rogue community for raw DPS:

 

Nightbrace > Tombstone by about 8 attack power which is a very big difference.

 

Shadowcraft Bracers > Blackmist Armguards by about 7 attack power.

 

Cloudrunner Girdle > Vosh'gajin by about 9 attack power.

 

Shadowcraft Pants (If you can't get Devilsaur 2pc) > Blademaster by 4 AP

 

For Rings, Nagelring is beyond garbage in comparison to the other 2. Why it tries telling you Nagelring deserves it own slot for ring is laughable considering it beats neither of the top 2 or even comes close. For reference even using his web archive link: Nagelring's stat values are 19 LESS than Painweaver, and 20 behind Blackstone.

 

Ranged: Technically Riphook is better than Blackcrow by about 2AP yet it doesn't even consider Riphook.

 

 

_______________________________________________

 

Let's assume for a minute that you chose to follow that document to the letter and with each comparison I've listed you chose what the document tried to tell you (Obviously on a good number of items it is correct on best in slot but you won't always have Best in Slot, in that event you want the best alternative):

 

You'd lose out on about 50 attack power. For reference, 50 attack power justifies you using one of the worst offhands for rogues in the game just due to a set bonus.

 

________________________________________________

 

For weapons, Ironfoe being tested on Nostalrius came out to be really bad compared to Dal'rend due both to the very lackluster proc rate of Ironfoe and the fact Mace Spec isn't really that great compared to Sword Specialization even with the 5 weapon skill extra. So you're misguiding rogues into taking this over a significantly better weapon proven through testing.

 

Granted while it is a proc based weapon and can vary, assuming it procs with very good luck it's about 10 dps increase. This is also assuming it procs at the 18% it should, some have cited numbers as low as 12. A rogue in my guild on the PvE server with one swore it felt less than 10% and while he used Ironfoe he was behind the rogues with Dal'rend.

 

So take both comparisons with a grain of salt.

 

________________________________________________

 

Hopefully now you'll see why that document is god awful.

Edited by Twilight Sparkle

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Kind of ironic that you rightfully start an attempt to stop the spreading of too much missinformation and then you base it on some silly inaccurate stat comparison (from starter rogue guide on how to not be absolutely terrible, not more, likely less) that doesnt inacalculate a single extern factor that could influence your gear choice.

Its about time someone tried to clear up further questions regarding that spreadsheet, but at the same time advocating for worse measures? :(. Also depending on other gear factors you might wanna look at the pads from lbrs again... and green bracers with +AP... and the epic gun.

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Maces are generally worthless on Rogues. They have no competitive weapons at 60, and you're investing in a stun proc when every boss is stun immune. Investing in DPS makes more sense. Vs players, the stun proc can be useful, but Ironfoe is still a weak weapon at 60, and there's no other good options, Swords/daggers however have numerous good choices, the best being Dalrends with set bonus, or 2x AV pokers. In other words, if you're a Rogue taking an Ironfoe off a Warrior who would put it to far better use, you're an idiot, and just wasted the drop.

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DM isnt released in patch 1.2, that would changed a bunch of items.

Ah shoot, I wasnt aware of that, as I only played retail vanilla.

Sounds like I have to do some more research to find out exactly what will be available with patch 1.12. Thanks for the heads up! :)

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Maces are generally worthless on Rogues. They have no competitive weapons at 60, and you're investing in a stun proc when every boss is stun immune. Investing in DPS makes more sense. Vs players, the stun proc can be useful, but Ironfoe is still a weak weapon at 60, and there's no other good options, Swords/daggers however have numerous good choices, the best being Dalrends with set bonus, or 2x AV pokers. In other words, if you're a Rogue taking an Ironfoe off a Warrior who would put it to far better use, you're an idiot, and just wasted the drop.

I agree with this post 100%. However, one of the only reasons I'll be rolling a rogue again is for that mace proc in pvp, though I'll be sticking with swords for early raiding. As dumb as it sounds the biggest reason I stopped playing my rogue in retail was because they took the mace stun away so I can't wait to be playing with it again

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I agree with this post 100%. However, one of the only reasons I'll be rolling a rogue again is for that mace proc in pvp, though I'll be sticking with swords for early raiding. As dumb as it sounds the biggest reason I stopped playing my rogue in retail was because they took the mace stun away so I can't wait to be playing with it again

RNG Stuns were and always will be absolute cancer. Skillherald was upsetting to deal with on warriors.

This coming from a rogue who enjoyed HARP spec and used the speed proc Blacksmithing Mace.

 

Fun to play as, infuriating to play against.

Edited by Twilight Sparkle

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Those aren't available until DM (or even AV?) is released though iirc.

Didnt know that is its true, they were available on the old PvP server before DM though, so they might be on the fresh one.

Edited by Aslan

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Didnt know that is its true, they were available on the old PvP server before DM though, so they might be on the fresh one.

 

Aren't they part of the "of healing" "of frozen wrath" patch?

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Aren't they part of the "of healing" "of frozen wrath" patch?

Trying to finde some patchnotes to verify the patch

In the meantime: That guy has been banned 20 months ago according to realmplayers (rip master), that was in the early ban wave of rogues, march-april of 2015. If the date under "last items" is correct, they were obtained on 20th March 2015, which was before DM, Kazzak and Azuregos, but in any case he got them before the release of Kazzak and DM, if the date is wrong, because the 20 months are correct.

 

Now lets find out if its actually blizzlike shall we? :D.

Edited by Aslan

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Aren't the boots that drop from Halycon in LBRS better ? They give 40 AP.

 

It says in the first post, quote: "For boots, Swiftwalker and Pads of the Dread Wolf are actually very close, literally doesn't make a difference what you choose in the end. Though I advise Swiftwalker's over Dread Wolf just simply because agility is more universal though the dps gain is literally less than one."

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Head: unsure and too lazy to compare cuz so close but rend head might be #1

Bracer: Green bracers "of AP" (+30 ap no other stats)

Ranged: boomstick pretty sure is bis (again too lazy to confirm)

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RNG Stuns were and always will be absolute cancer. Skillherald was upsetting to deal with on warriors.

This coming from a rogue who enjoyed HARP spec and used the speed proc Blacksmithing Mace.

 

Fun to play as, infuriating to play against.

Those times you relied on the skilled RNG stun to proc on a resto druid so you could kill them in Arena...  :lol:

@Knife, the mask has 2% hit and 1% crit, 12 stam

eye of rent has 7 stam, 13 str, and 2% crit.

Edited by Ghostly

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What you can tell about pvp gear for hemo? Now I have pre-raid BiS, and I feel lack of stamina (2900 hp), is it worth to get more stamina instead of crit/AP?

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On 4.4.2017 at 10:45 PM, Ldarius said:

What about Bracers of the Eclipse??

Hi Ldarius

As i can see you clearly have problems understanding words that are put together to sentences.

I hope this site will help you to improve your ability to understand what your eyes read:

http://www.k5learning.com/reading-comprehension-worksheets

 

(This Thread states 1.2 Pre-Bis, DM Bracers are from the DM Patch 1.3 and were therefore not available in December when TE created that List.)

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