Shadow Priest Theorycraft by Killerduki

[killerduki 54]

 

So, some people were talking about shadow priest things on discord and of course Killerduki shows up to spread his misinformation. He links us to this wonderful thread for 'proof' he is right. He is not right, mostly, and here is my post from there explaining why intellect is never better than spell power, except in extremely rare situations.

 

I hope the Elysium staff deletes this entire thread and mutes Killerduki as he is doing nothing but harm by spreading all of this misinformation.

 

Let see how proper analyze you gave everyone there:

 

Given the 15 minute duration earlier, assuming infinite mana, assuming no mind blast because it is very inefficient,

 

Nice shot buddy , next time come with some Mana numbers and damage outcome by Mind Blast, since there is no "Infinite Mana" and there is Damage by Spells done compare to X amount of Mana + Shadow Weave/Darkness/Shadow Form in this Game.

 

let imagine in your case : You go for full Mind Flays and Shadow word: Pain ,where each 27 Intellect will reward you at least extra 1 Mind Blast which result to 1060 Damage per cast + the benefits from the Spell Damage , where it will cut only 1 tick from Mind Flay where the overall Damage will increase up to 800 or even more if Mind Blast does Critical Strike

never the less , each bit of 27 Intellect will go for Mind Blast where over 270 Intellect will give you 10 Mind Blasts and will replace your 4600 Damage to over 270 000 Damage where each bit of Critical will increase that damage by possible at least 30% extra , replacing 10 ticks from Mind Flay = 2000 damage + 5254 damage = 7254 damage will reduce from 270 000 and will end up overall 262746 damage - + or in worse case if you calculate 270 Intellect vs 270 Spell Power = 72540 damage maximum will be reduced from 270 000 and will end up overall 197460 damage in favor of Intellect.

And what you lost or gain in within is your choice , clearly you did never tried to calculate from personal "consumes" rotation how much will go up with "Intellect" for extra Mind Blasts rotation.

262746 damage or 197460 over 900 seconds will result to extra 292 or 219  DPS thanks to Intellect

+ 230 DPS from the rotation you and other folks mention(edited)

this will reward you over 522 or  449 DPS  thanks to Intellect

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 4, 2016 by killerduki

[Maxvla 0]

You clearly do not understand plain English. No shadow priest can sustain a normal dps rotation for 15 minutes, even the most efficient one. This is why I said infinite mana. You simply cannot come up with 74,000 mana, (or in your case over 100,000) in a 15 minute fight.

 

Your vomit of numbers is completely senseless and not worth bothering to read.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Maxvla

[Undertanker 88]

[Docholy 4]

Lets be generous and say a BIS SP with buffs has 700 intellect buffed.  Thats 10500 mana. Now lets look at a 15 minute fight and consume 2k mana pots every 2 minutes after the first minute.  thats 14k mana.

 

 

24k mana over a 15 minute fight so far with no regen.  To complete Duki's table we need 74000 mana.  So we have 50k mana to overcome over a 15 minute window.

 

 

We have 180 5 sec ticks over a 15 minute fight.  50k short fall mana divided by 180 = 278 mp5

 

So a Shadow priest to meet the standard Duki says in his troll theory craft will need 278 mp5, 700 intellect buffed and 7 mana pots.  

Yeah not going to happen, ever.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Docholy

[killerduki 54]

Lets be generous and say a BIS SP with buffs has 700 intellect buffed.  Thats 10500 mana. Now lets look at a 15 minute fight and consume 2k mana pots every 2 minutes after the first minute.  thats 14k mana.

 

 

24k mana over a 15 minute fight so far with no regen.  To complete Duki's table we need 74000 mana.  So we have 50k mana to overcome over a 15 minute window.

 

 

We have 180 5 sec ticks over a 15 minute fight.  50k short fall mana divided by 180 = 278 mp5

 

So a Shadow priest to meet the standard Duki says in his troll theory craft will need 278 mp5, 700 intellect buffed and 7 mana pots.  

Yeah not going to happen, ever.

 

 

- And there you have 3000 Base mana + 700 Intellect = 13 000 Mana 

- Now imagine how much DPS you will make by 700 Spell Damage  if you tend to replace it with 700 Intellect for 15 minutes Duration as you say ?

- You will end up 3000 Base mana and + 700 Spell Power for that, good luck sustaining your dps over 15 minutes .

 

By Maxvla

(Original discussion about Nefarian as a new guild taking 15 minutes to kill led to this)

 

- Nefarian fight = http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/FightOverallOverview.aspx?FightName=Nefarian&realm=NRB

- Average time 422 Seconds or even lower = 7 + - Minutes where over 60% of the fight is killing trash where you can regen by Spirit Tap = 2.81 Minute fighting Boss.

- Good luck with your "15 minutes fight"

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 4, 2016 by killerduki

[Maxvla 0]

Lets be generous and say a BIS SP with buffs has 700 intellect buffed.  Thats 10500 mana. Now lets look at a 15 minute fight and consume 2k mana pots every 2 minutes after the first minute.  thats 14k mana.

 

 

24k mana over a 15 minute fight so far with no regen.  To complete Duki's table we need 74000 mana.  So we have 50k mana to overcome over a 15 minute window.

 

 

We have 180 5 sec ticks over a 15 minute fight.  50k short fall mana divided by 180 = 278 mp5

 

So a Shadow priest to meet the standard Duki says in his troll theory craft will need 278 mp5, 700 intellect buffed and 7 mana pots.  

Yeah not going to happen, ever.

Actually, 74,000 was my most efficient (but still max rank) rotation with only SWP and MF. Introducing MB increased this to 103,000 mana, but wait, it gets better because Killerduki clips his mind flays for more mind blasts, so his rotation is EVEN more expensive. I haven't bothered to look at the actual rotation, but a simple guess puts his rotation over 110,000.

 

None of these figures are remotely possible, yet you will see Killerduki talk about how you simply need to get 1500 intellect to be properly geared. I could be wrong but I don't think, even in BC you could get 1500 intellect.

 

Anyway, the whole point of the 15 minute duration was that someone had suggested the length for a first kill of Nefarian, so I built upon that. It is very simple to bring the fight down in scale to the point where intellect is equal in damage, around 16-18% of the length of the fight depending on rotation. This percentage clearly demonstrates just how bad intellect is vs spell damage, but he will not understand.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Maxvla

[cryofsorrow 5]

I'm out of popcorn. Please stop.

@Maxvia, don't waste your time. Doesn't matter what numbers you throw at Doki - he has both language and calculation problems.

Edited December 4, 2016 by cryofsorrow

[Docholy 4]

Duki has also started posting on Druid forums. HAHAH this troll theory craft is amazing.  I wonder how much he will troll them too.  This is nuts.

[Undertanker 88]

[killerduki 54]

Anyway, the whole point of the 15 minute duration was that someone had suggested the length for a first kill of Nefarian, so I built upon that. It is very simple to bring the fight down in scale to the point where intellect is equal in damage, around 16-18% of the length of the fight depending on rotation. This percentage clearly demonstrates just how bad intellect is vs spell damage, but he will not understand.

 

 

 

9:30  , they start from 0:40 and this result to 8:48 minutes

they start fighting boss from 2:50 and this result to 5:86 minutes fighting Boss.

 

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/FightOverallOverview.aspx?FightName=Nefarian&realm=NRB

- Average time 422 Seconds or even lower for whole Nefarian regular kill+Trash killing = 7 + - Minutes.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 4, 2016 by killerduki

[Maxvla 0]

Again you missed the point. Someone ELSE suggested 15 minutes. I built upon that time, but it is very easy to scale down to whatever duration you require.

 

Please learn English, or rather, forget it entirely so you will go away.

[killerduki 54]

None of these figures are remotely possible, yet you will see Killerduki talk about how you simply need to get 1500 intellect to be properly geared. I could be wrong but I don't think, even in BC you could get 1500 intellect.

 

https://forum.elysium-project.org/index.php?showtopic=23585&p=247422

 

12.Notes:

- Keep in mind that you don't need full amount of Intellect or Mp5 explained if you combine it together, you need to find your own Balance between both.

 

 

Maxvla, on 04 Dec 2016 - 09:29, said:

Actually, 74,000 was my most efficient (but still max rank) rotation with only SWP and MF. Introducing MB increased this to 103,000 mana, but wait, it gets better because Killerduki clips his mind flays for more mind blasts, so his rotation is EVEN more expensive. I haven't bothered to look at the actual rotation, but a simple guess puts his rotation over 110,000.

 

https://forum.elysium-project.org/index.php?showtopic=23585&p=247420

 

5.Maximum DPS over 25.5 and 51 seconds :

 

1.5 Second Mind Blast 350 Mana 672 Damage - Shadow Word Pain 470 Mana , 3 Second Mind Flay 205 Mana 2 Tick 391 Damage , 4.5 Second Shadow Word: Pain tick 195 (1),5 Second Mind Flay 205 Mana 2 Tick 402 Damage , 7.5 Second Shadow Word: Pain 201 (2), 8.5 Second Mind Blast 350 Mana 753 Damage - Mind Flay 205 Mana 3 tick 618 Damage , 10.5 Second Shadow Word: Pain 206 Damage (3) , 13 Second Mind Blast 350 Mana 773 Damage - Mind Flay 3 tick 205 Mana 618 Damage, 13.5 Second Shadow Word: Pain 206 Damage (4),16.5 Second Shadow Word: Pain 206 Damage (5),17.5 Second Mind Blast 350 Mana 773 Damage - Mind Flay 3 tick 205 Mana 618 Damage, 19.5 Second Shadow Word: Pain 206 Damage (6), 22 Second Mind Blast 350 Mana 773 Damage - Mind Flay 3 tick 205 Mana 618 Damage , 22.5 Second Shadow Word: Pain 206 Damage (7), 25.5 Second Shadow Word: Pain 206 Damage (8)

 

The rest is "Repeat"

Total casts/ticks: 5x Mind Blast Cast, 1x Shadow Word: Pain Cast, 6x Mind Flay Cast 16 Ticks (2x 2 Tick , 4x 4 Tick).

Mana Wasted: 1750 Mana Mind Blast , 470 Mana Shadow Word: Pain , 1230 Mana Mind Flay. 3450 Mana Total.

Mana Regenerated by Spirit Thanks to Meditation: 65 (130 thanks to T2 3 pieces).

Mana Finish: 3385 - Base Mana = 429 Mana Negative (364 with t2 3 pieces) "As Dwarf",

(since we wasted too much, can include Inner Focus on Shadow Word: Pain or probably for long duration on Mind Blast we end up 41 Mana or 106 with t2 3 pieces).

 

- Without Consumes 25.5 Seconds (less/more)  3385 - Base Mana

 

Our Base Mana + Mana Consumes Increased: 6708 Mana or 131 Mana per Second wasted over 51 Seconds (Excluding Inner Focus).

Casting Spells will result into : 6770 Mana wasted over 51 Seconds or 132 Mana per Second "660 Mp5"(Excluding Inner Focus).

 

40 000 Mana maximum wasted over 5 Minutes or let say Nefarian "DPS on Boss excluding trash fight".

 

My full respect to this guy , his words just proved the fact of those who tend to deny my theorycraft and still trying to.

 

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 4, 2016 by killerduki

[cryofsorrow 5]

The whole thread sounds like "you get more damage done if you use distilled wisdom flask as spriest and intellect aktoally gifs u mena rigen". Anyone with a head on his shoulders will disregard this.



PS: We might as well turn this thread into music/pictures/random stuff, it has no other purpose.

Edited December 4, 2016 by cryofsorrow

[meridaw 11]

Dont people only bring a shadow priest to buff locks anyway?

The first time my guild cleared nef our shadow priest was oom way before half his hp was gone

Edited December 4, 2016 by meridaw

[Aslan 0]

The first time you clear nef, the debuff limit will still be at 8, when spriests become a thing, they will have already gathered up quite some diverse gear and the raid overall will be smoother. If your guild takes 15 minutes to complete the encounter and your spriest doesnt use mana pots nor runes nor any of the dozen of possible consumables and on top of that spam mindblast like a maniac, yeah they will probably oom at 90% of the bosses hp bar.

[gotmilk0112 10]

Yeah, on super long fights, Spriest pretty much stands around and hits 1 spell every 12 seconds to keep up Shadow Weaving. If you try to DPS the whole time, you're gonna be oom real fast.

 

Only reason why Spriest works in MC is because almost all of the bosses are only 2-3 minute fights.

[Asphycsia 0]

I wonder how many paint chips Killerduki ate as a kid

[Teljkon 0]

Yeah, on super long fights, Spriest pretty much stands around and hits 1 spell every 12 seconds to keep up Shadow Weaving. If you try to DPS the whole time, you're gonna be oom real fast.

 

Only reason why Spriest works in MC is because almost all of the bosses are only 2-3 minute fights.

If the game is setup as in vanilla, then s priests can absolutely keep up in the end game stages of the game.  Granted they will require a great player for this to do so, but back in vanilla myself and 3 other shadow priests all experienced most of what naxx had to offer

[gotmilk0112 10]

If the game is setup as in vanilla, then s priests can absolutely keep up in the end game stages of the game.  Granted they will require a great player for this to do so, but back in vanilla myself and 3 other shadow priests all experienced most of what naxx had to offer

I mean really long fights, like 10min+ stuff. Nef, C'thun, etc.

 

Spriest mana just can't keep up because you only have mana potions and runes. In full T2/T3 gear, sure, you'll get a bit more longevity, but on those really long fights, you'll OOM yourself really fast if you do full DPS.

[Theloras 108]

I mean really long fights, like 10min+ stuff. Nef, C'thun, etc.

 

Spriest mana just can't keep up because you only have mana potions and runes. In full T2/T3 gear, sure, you'll get a bit more longevity, but on those really long fights, you'll OOM yourself really fast if you do full DPS.

pretty much this - unless every druids innervates you lol

 

shadow priests aren't brought for their own DPS - they are brought to keep up shadow weaving to fuel the Warlocks' DPS

[killerduki 54]

I mean really long fights, like 10min+ stuff. Nef, C'thun, etc.

 

Spriest mana just can't keep up because you only have mana potions and runes. In full T2/T3 gear, sure, you'll get a bit more longevity, but on those really long fights, you'll OOM yourself really fast if you do full DPS.

 

 Just quote on your statement by Cryofsorrow comment

 

The whole thread sounds like "you get more damage done if you use distilled wisdom flask as spriest and intellect aktoally gifs u mena rigen". Anyone with a head on his shoulders will disregard this.

PS: We might as well turn this thread into music/pictures/random stuff, it has no other purpose.

 

https://forum.elysium-project.org/index.php?showtopic=23585&p=249547

 

I'll leave that there , the controversy for his statement.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 5, 2016 by killerduki

[reymond 2]

Have you taken into account spells with lower ranks?

For example:

"Mind Blast" rank 9 = 350 mana

"Mind Black" rank 7 = 265 mana

You can stack up enough spell power, so rank 7 will do the same damage as rank 9 without spell dmg bonus.

[killerduki 54]

Have you taken into account spells with lower ranks?

For example:

"Mind Blast" rank 9 = 350 mana

"Mind Black" rank 7 = 265 mana

You can stack up enough spell power, so rank 7 will do the same damage as rank 9 without spell dmg bonus.

 

The example was "Maximum" DPS outcome , ofc you can Downrank if you lack on mana etc , i never said no on that . (Formula was regarding maximum outcome in duration of time explained).

 

Now regarding Rank 7 vs Rank 9 :

 

Rank 7 Mind Blast with Bonuses = 76.27 DPS

Rank 9 Mind Blast with Bonuses = 110.42 DPS

 

In order to reach Rank 9 with Spell Damage you need over 300 Spell Damage or more with all Bonuses.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Theloras 108]

The whole thread sounds like "you get more damage done if you use distilled wisdom flask as spriest and intellect aktoally gifs u mena rigen". Anyone with a head on his shoulders will disregard this.

PS: We might as well turn this thread into music/pictures/random stuff, it has no other purpose.

 

Actually Smiter used Flask of Distilled Wisdom instead of Flask of Supreme Power in order to spam max rank Consecration for the entirety of each boss fight and top dmg metres both here and on Vanilla Gaming:

 

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/PlayerOverview.aspx?realm=NRB&player=Smiter

 

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/PlayerOverview.aspx?realm=VG&player=Smiterr

 

So thank you for proving Duki's point!

[cryofsorrow 5]

And now Smite comes into play... We've reached the peak, guys.