How exactly do Spriests fare?

[gotmilk0112 10]

For the longest time, all I had known about PvE Shadow is that it does crap DPS and is only brought to raids for Shadow Weaving and dispels. But now I'm learning that they're actually half-decent DPS, even when just using Mind Blast and Mind Flay.

 

Main thing that worries me is getting gear in raids. Every single piece of spell damage gear is going to go to mages/warlocks first, so I'd have to see an item drop like 8 times before I can finally get it.

 

Or should I just forget raids and go melt faces in PvP? That's another thing I've not done much of, in vanilla.

 

I've always wanted to try Shadow in vanilla, but thus far, have only healed at max level.

[Motorbreath 923]

You can always start your own groups and reserve the items you need.

 

PvP is always a way to get some decent gear too - and that's what shadow priests are pretty good for anyway.

 

I'd say go for it and figure it out on the run if being a shadow priest is what you want.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Motorbreath

[gotmilk0112 10]

Yeah, since I've never done any serious PvP in vanilla, I suppose I could give Spriest PvP a go. That's where I've heard the most positive things, that Spriest is sick in PvP, especially Undead and the ever-lovely Devouring Plague.

[Undertanker 88]

If your guild is Loot Council and are not stupid, there are some items you will have a better priority on, depending on what content/gear is out.

 

Note that until debuff slots are increased to 16, you shouldn't be shadow.  So let's assume ZG is out for our conversation.

 

 

Head: Mages and casters want BWL Nef head Mish'undare while you'd be going for: Hexxer's Cover

 

Neck: Choker of the Fire Lord is BiS for Shadow PVE for ever pretty much, while mages and locks can 2 upgrades, 1 in AQ, 1 in Naxx.   Be smart to give the 1 Shadow Priest their BiS forever item and move on with life.  Locks will want +hit blue neck when it is released, until they get better hit gear later.

 

Shoulders: Same goes for Mantle of the Blackwing Cabal, mages / locks either pair T3/8 for their set bonus and come out close (mages more damage cause less aggro, locks SP set - or they use the 2/5 ZG set. And get huge upgrades in AQ T2.5 shoulders.   LC should be giving this to their 1 Shadow Priest first.

 

Cloak: Cloak of the Brood Lord - no competition as mages / locks will be wanting Cloak of Consumption

 

Chest: Bloodvine Vest - craftable no competition

 

Bracer: Bracers of Arcane Accuracy - Locks may be getting these first, however no harm, since Rockfury Bracers is better and is from CC Rep - no competition.

 

Gloves: Ebony Flame Gloves most locks should be going for Bloodtinged Gloves until better hit gear, so might as well give these to your SP first.

 

Belt: Major Domo chest: Sash of Whispered Secrets would say lock or SP equally if you are only in MC as mages might be wanting Mana Igniting Cord, since Lock T2 is really comparable to Mana Cord (Mage T2 doesn't have crit).  Once in BWL, Priest should get first: Firemaw's Clutch Locks will use Nemesis Belt as part of their 3/8 set if they go that route.    - So little to no competition

 

Pants: Bloodvine Leggings - craftable no competition or Fel Infused Leggings - locks will want AQ20 Leggings of the Black Blizzard when breaking bloodvine set. - no competition.

 

Boots: Bloodvine Boots - craftable, no competition.    Betrayer's Boots priest can break 3/3 bloodvine set well before mage / lock - no competition.   Snowblind Shoes should go to a priest as Mage T2.5 (when they break bloodvine) boots have hit on them.  Locks T2.5 doesn't and should give them Boots of Epiphany. - no competition.

 

Ring 1: Ring of Blackrock - no competition   /    Replace with Signet Ring of Bronze Dragonflight - AQ40 rep, no competition

 

Ring 2: Band of Dark Dominion - no competition   / (Mages should be getting Ring of Spell Power x2), locks should be given prio on Band of Forced Concentration and they get prio on AQ20 token that gives them: Ring of Unspoken Names so they should get Dark Dominion AFTER SP since they replace it quickly.    Mages and locks will equally be going for: Mindtear Band / Rissyn's Ring of Chaos / Ring of the Fallen God - SP may have to wait a bit for Fallen God, but luckily the other turn ins are a lot worse than the caster ring.

 

Trinket 1: Zandalarian Hero Charm all casters should be given prio over others so will get pretty fast. - no competition.

 

Trinket 2: Talisman of Ephemeral Power all casters will want this to alternate with their Trinket 1 slot even if the have a better Trinket 2.  Equal competition, though if others have Neltharion's Tear they should be waiting until those who don't have tear get second trinket slot.  You'll be in line for Neltharion's Tear. - Competitive slot.

 

2H Staff: Anathema good pre-bwl - moderate competition with healers, though if early raiding, I'd pass at start for healers and get: Jin'do's Judgement - Locks may want, but they will be getting Bag of Whammies, so you should get priority - no competition.  (using Jindo's Judgement + Bloodvine puts you at hit cap and allows you to stack SP/MP5 in all other slots).

 

1H: Lok'amir il Romathis is great, but you will compete with Pally (dedicated pally AoE tank first of pally) / Druids, once your guild is clearing AQ40, you should be moved to top of priority list on this mace. - moderate competition until AQ40.

 

Offhand: Tome of Shadow Force - AV rep no competition, Jin'do's Bag of Whammies (if the hit is needed depending on other gear slots). - Locks should be getting priority on this item until you have Lok'amir then you are equally considered - low competition.   Once AQ is out, mages typically pass on Bag and get Talon of Furious Concentration.   Locks and mages will equally be replacing their respective offhands with: Royal Scepter of Vek'lor eventually, while you can fair just fine with Bag.

 

Wand: Touch of Chaos casters will all be wanting this, and should be LC to the biggest upgrade. - moderate competition.

 

 

So you can see from my comprehensive list, in a loot council that is lead with people with half a brain, loot isn't an issue.  Giving proper drops to the people that will use it the longest in that slot is the goal, and knowing what other items are out there for said classes and what they should be using, when and why.

 

This should give you much hope that you don't wait last for everything and can get geared pretty fast with heavy competition for loot primarily on 1h, Trinket 2, wand - that is about it.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Undertanker

[Shayss 43]

Well first of all,

 

If you want to play a Spriest in a raiding guild, BE ONLINE FOR EVERY RAID. This should be common sense to most, but for me, if you are a special class, then you really need to make yourself useful.

 

If you cba useing consumables, like spamming mana pots, then you are also going to have a bad time. One of the biggest sins most of these special classes exibit is that the people who play them lack dedication. It happens so damn often and most of them think, because they won't be the best dps/tank, that you don't have to try.

 

So wrong. You need to put in as much effort as you can.

 

Your dps will never be above average. You will probably be last in line for every dps upgrade which is also why you have to be there for EVERY raid.

 

I would recommend getting into a guild that accepts you as a Spriest as soon as possible. This applies to all special specs.
 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Shayss

[Zappa 7]

Wow @Undertaker, that is impressive.

Good job!

[Undertanker 88]

Thanks.

[cryofsorrow 5]

Shadow is really ungrateful spec. You use all those consumables and even if you push hard, you still get фекал DPS.
Like others have mentioned, you have to be dedicated and showing up always if you want that 1xSpriest spot to be yours. Gear is subjective since different guilds have different views on the matter, but shadow priests get the lowest priority usually which is understandable. This doesn't mean you will wait out on all the casters untill you get X item every single time of course.

Edited December 6, 2016 by cryofsorrow

[Undertanker 88]

you still get фекал DPS.

 

Still boost raid damage, so not a total loss.

[Res 0]

If you go in expecting that a guild will give you some of the items Undertanker listed over a warlock you're going to be disappointed.

Getting from point A to B is usually the highest priority in guilds. Giving an item to a warlock over a shadow priest will usually gets your guild to point B faster.

 

You will occasionally be thrown a bone, but you're at the bottom of the food chain, no hard feelings but it's the truth.

[Aslan 0]

Its not like you are below every warlock, spriests are generally very dedicated players, there are a lot of spriests and only 1 per raid. That one guy is usually attending every single raid, has a pvp rank of 10 or higher, is a very reliable person and so on. The competition for the limited spots is real. When it comes to warlocks... not so much unless you are in one of the luckier guilds. Even if they might have a higher dps number, thats not everything worth rewarding.

[Undertanker 88]

If you go in expecting that a guild will give you some of the items Undertanker listed over a warlock you're going to be disappointed.

Getting from point A to B is usually the highest priority in guilds. Giving an item to a warlock over a shadow priest will usually gets your guild to point B faster.

You will occasionally be thrown a bone, but you're at the bottom of the food chain, no hard feelings but it's the truth.

You have no clue how to loot council.

[Res 0]

You have no clue how to loot council.

Not a very compelling argument, personally attacking someone without even rebutting what I said.

Where do you draw the line, would you give a feral druid gear over a rogue because it's better for them? They do bring a crit boost and they combat res and buff people so they do pull their weight in some sense.

Would you give a  Ret paladin Gear over a fury warrior because it's best in slot for them? They might do bad DPS but they do put Blessings up on everyone, and he farmed his Nightfall all on his own!

 

I know, that seems a bit ridiculous, but the shadow priest mainly fills a support role. in my other thread I suggested a way to even eliminate them from raids by having a healer keep up shadow weaving.

Like I said, you usually allocate gear to the place which brings you from point A to B faster.

When you reach point B then you would probably want to look over things and see how you can go through content faster without wasting peoples time.

 

From this perspective, giving an item to a Warlock would probably be more beneficial, I'm not saying "Hurrrr-durrrr shadow priests shouldn't get gear because they are support class, the trial warlock should get all items over them"

I like shadow priests and have nothing against them, I'm just trying to be realistic here, and the whole point of having forums is to promote discussion.

[Undertanker 88]

Not a very compelling argument? I break down per slot of which class gets prior on what and why. You respond, point a to point b BS with no reasoning.

OP had a question, and I answered it with facts.

To your next question which you then bring up about feral, same thing applies:

If an item is BiS for somebody vs just a hold over item that will soon get replaced by current or soon to be released gear, you give it to whom it is BiS for.

Don't waste your loot drops, and you can gear your entire guild from MC to AQ ready in less than 3 months regardless of bad RNG stretches.

[Docholy 4]

Shadow priest fare fine as long as you have many mana pots.

[reymond 2]

I've looked at gotmilk0112's forum avatar and it reminded me an old funny video about the role of Shadow Priest in PVE.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5wtjt_mana-mana-shadow-priest-pves-song_videogames

Edited December 8, 2016 by reymond

[gotmilk0112 10]

I've looked at gotmilk0112's forum avatar and it reminded me an old funny video about the role of Shadow Priest in PVE.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5wtjt_mana-mana-shadow-priest-pves-song_videogames

In TBC, yes.

 

Sit in the healer group and do mediocre DPS while crying that you're OOM. Ahh, the good old days...

[Ipos 0]

Consumables and raid buffs help mitigate the lack of abilities like lifetap and evocation. 

 

Gotta pretty much wait until ZG as well for the 16 debuff slots and god knows when we will get ZG on fresh server, maybe 6 months?

 

Itemization is miserable as well and you have a relatively small number of abilities.

 

Don't play SPriest and expect a smooth experience. 

[Chill 0]

Frankly, I agree with Res on his points. You aren't going to be getting loot over Mages/Warlocks at all. It doesn't matter whether it's BiS or not. Also, Support Priest is flat out better for raids than Shadow Priest. That's a big statement I guess. I don't have proof on hand. But, I can bet you that a little bit of theorycrafting will make it easy to understand.

 

Bottom line is, Shadow Priest is for Leveling. If you really want to Honor Grind, grab Silence, Mental Agility, Mental Strength and Healing Focus then go spot heal a Warrior.

 

Shadow is great if you're already geared for it. Do you believe you're going to have gear for it any time soon?

[Strahl 2]

Not a very compelling argument, personally attacking someone without even rebutting what I said.

he said you have no clue. thats not a personal attack. that is a simple fact proven by the posts you made.

[Aethelwulf 12]

I'll have to agree that while Res thought he was being clever with his generalized statements, he failed to pay attention to the specifics points Undertanker was making about item availability and competition. It's very true that Warlocks and Mages value hit and crit more highly than just raw spell damage so I could see a decent guild passing those items to the SP, not to mention that most of the items that Undertanker listed were noncompetitive.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Aethelwulf

[Maxvla 0]

I thought Wrath of Cenarius was tested to only work on direct damage (ie Mind blast) and thus was not worth it.

[Aethelwulf 12]

Right, I deleted that advice now that I checked old Thottbot and Allakhazam comments. According to those, it procced off of DoT debuff placement (not damage) until 1.10 at which point they seemed to have created a whitelist of "approved Wrath of Cenarius triggering spells" (which they incompetently and dishonestly labeled in Patch 1.10 as "Wrath of Cenarius will now trigger off all damaging spells") thus causing all sorts of stupid behaviors with all kinds of overlooked damaging spells now failing to trigger Wrath of Cenarius. It did trigger off of damage with Arcane Explosion pre-1.10 and Arcane Missiles (per hit). In 1.12 they made Arcane Missiles trigger Wrath of Cenarius again.

Overall Wrath of Cenarius is most likely not worth a Shadow Priest's time. My apologies for the misinformation.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Aethelwulf