Why are retail players so angry about this server?

[Destron 2]

I've honestly seen more фекал thrown at retail players from the private server community than the other way around. no one I play retail with gives a вау about the private server community.

[Destron 2]

I can't really figure out what/how another person chooses to play games on their own time has anything to do with them.   

 

This is a two way street. 

[Glenzig 34]

To refresh my memories and out of curiosity I checked the official Legacy Serv discussion on the US forums...

I feel bad for the people trying to defend the cause of private servs. I haven't seen people being so dense on a forum for a long time.

Yeah that's a pretty bold display of ignorance right there.

"COPYRIGHTS!"

[arbet 9]

Without wanting to sound like a psychologist, I think ultimately the reason many retail players seem to get angry just boils down to them knowing inside that the private server players are getting a better deal than them. It's like when you go on IGN and try to start a rational debate about a game and you will get the most vitriolic fanboys defend their product because they have invested money in it and therefore it must be worthwhile.

[Pishy 0]

I give the whole project max. 3-6 months before shut down.

[arbet 9]

@pishy Why would it shut down?

Edited December 9, 2016 by arbet

[Sussemilch 0]

The difference is all about community. 

[Dralek 5]

I disagree. LFG would have been fine if it didn't come equipped with HEIRLOOMS.

 

LFG made people stay in the main city without needing to travel around the world to get to the instance, avoiding interaction with enemy players, mobs, etc. A portion of the game (the entire world actually) was lost because of this.

[Xom 8]

I honestly think that Blizz should have started on the next big MMO when they rolled out WoD.  Should have just stopped with WoW already.  It's become too unwieldy and there's no fixing it.

 

 

Well remember - they scrapped Titan. They had been working on that for years.

 

Some of that became Overwatch, but from listening to the recent interview on The Instance with Chris Metzen, it sounds like the failure of that project changed a lot of the direction within Blizzard. Notice how many people left in the past years. Now part of that is family stuff like Metzen, but Rob Pardo and others starting up Bonfire studios shows that it wasn't entirely just "have to focus on family stuff now" for everyone involved, I'm guessing there was some focus shift within the company, and those who realized their vision was no longer going to be, they bowed out. It sounded like Titan had so many people pulling it so many directions that it could never become one certain game, and no one was pleased with what it was shaping up like so they scrapped the project.

 

Check this article, saying that Titan was heard about back in 2007, and cost Blizzard upwards of 50 Million - though I'm guessing much of that was not squandered since Overwatch has done so well, they still spent years developing unused assets and mechanics for Titan.

[Ellipsea 36]

interesting article.  ty.

[Shayss 43]

This really isn't rocket science people. The answer is simply difference of opinion.

 

I have friends that hate every aspect of vanilla. They think it is garbage.

 

An example of this was one of my more recent discussions: Topic, classes.

"What is the point in playing vanilla if only a few classes work, hybrids are garbage and even if you play them it is no fun. Some pure classes are also just straight up stupid and not worth bringing"

 

My response: "So you are telling me not all classes were the same. You also needed all classes in a raid or you would miss out on important buffs. It doesn't matter if you took more of some classes than others. The differences also made for some good dynamic in raid composition and also gave extra logistical concerns for Guild Leaders. I think unique is a good thing.

 

If we compare this to legion, where classes don't even bring buffs to a raid, all you are looking at is DPS, HEALING, TANKING. sounds pretty boring to me"

 

 

TL:DR - some people think differently from us. вау em xD

[Crowley 8]

I give the whole project max. 3-6 months before shut down.

With already plummeting subs I think it would be insane of Blizzard to try to take on the private server/legacy community again. Blizzard themselves significantly boosted awareness of private servers during the whole Nost shut down thing.  Shutting down this one would just add napalm to the fire.   Even if we get shut down here, we are a reslient bunch, we will find a way to keep playing on somehow, somewhere.  I always have my eye on a couple "backup" servers just in case.

Also, I believe the original Nostalrius could've kept the servers going if they wanted to.  I think they had ulterior motives for closing shop.

[arbet 9]

Nostalrius did not shut down because of the C&D letter, they shut down because they wanted to demonstrate to Blizzard that their goal was to get Blizzard to make their own servers - that they were not in it for themselves.

[Zealotz 0]

Without wanting to sound like a psychologist, I think ultimately the reason many retail players seem to get angry just boils down to them knowing inside that the private server players are getting a better deal than them. It's like when you go on IGN and try to start a rational debate about a game and you will get the most vitriolic fanboys defend their product because they have invested money in it and therefore it must be worthwhile.

 

Yes, yes for a lot of them it comes down to the money and the value of the product they're getting

[rikkisix 0]

It depends honestly, could be part generation then again. I brought and played vanilla with people from This gen. Again it's fear of account clousure as well, people do think (and have had) there accounts shut down about this / playing on them. It's been A LOT LESS strict then it was in say cata. They also, don't see it as a different game like (Most? well me.)  Do. As  Shayss said,  EVERYTHING is about Min Max, in everything. Everyone wants to be the best at this or that. and ontop, it's not about how much time and how you treat people it's about how lucky you are and how good your circle of friends you do mythic raids with is. Honestly, Mythic raids are still hardish, for a different reason then Old raids are. It's very Single VS Team working Skill, Vanilla is a Team game while retail is based more so on what YOU can do and вау everyone else mentaility, Community sucks so you can leave any guild and вау everyone. (Yes you can always server move etc,) theres honestly no point in making friends Profs are dead. Etc, A lot of people like this some don't I mean it's not just wow It's EVERY NEW MMO. some people just don't like... you know, things that forced you to work togeather and like that whole "Shady Loner" path. Honestly, all i can say is tell some retail people to try it with a different mind set, A lot my friends liked it some didn't. 

[tinklepee 1]

They think we're retarded for playing a 12 year old game. They just don't get it.

[Glenzig 34]

I give the whole project max. 3-6 months before shut down.

Maybe. Still would be 10x more worth it than retail.

[windslav 2]

LFG made people stay in the main city without needing to travel around the world to get to the instance, avoiding interaction with enemy players, mobs, etc. A portion of the game (the entire world actually) was lost because of this.

 

To be honest, back in the old days I had spent a lot of time standing in the main city refreshing /who and sucking up to the healers

[Xykaru 1]

I got a feeling Nost is going to be around into TBC even, and the progression might be what sets off Blizzard.

[Sussemilch 0]

I wonder if Blizz isn't interested in the legacy movement too, but a couple years off.  If they let Nost/Elysium grow the market, they can host/license it later at minimal cost when they're no longer interested in supporting a dying product (Legion, etc).  It's pretty clear the boardroom over there is no longer interested in developing MMOs

Edited December 10, 2016 by Sussemilch

[Geiela 0]

i agree, the TBC model was pretty damn perfect, and wrath would have been an even better expansion under the TBC model.

 

Blizzards first slip into the darkness was LFG que, even tho it didnt summon you at first, it began the slippery slope into shittiness we all know.

 

TBC was pretty damn perfect, I agree.  And then the pvp gear and the nerfs came ...

[Geiela 0]

I played from the beginning on Vanilla through to the first raid of Cata.  Then I went and played on Phoenix and did it all again.   So happy to hear about Elysium.

 

What I enjoy about a PVE server is always the option to PVP, but you can play just to relax as well.

 

I played, and would play again, to enjoy raiding and the team work that comes with it.  I hate the questing and the crafting and just about everything that happens before level 60 and if I could skip straight to 60 I would.  I admit I find the thought of having to level all over again a little daunting, but it's worth it to raid.  There is nothing in any game I have ever played like a well run raiding guild.  Some of the guilds I was in were like family and it's the social side of WoW I miss the most.

 

I don't really give a damn about what retail is doing these days.  It stopped being the WoW I love a long time ago - I would even argue that as the original developers left, it isn't even WoW as intended any more.  The atmosphere on retail now is horrible.  Full of whining kids, keyboard warriors, loot whores.  People do whole instances without even talking to each other.  But, if that's what they want to do, I don't care.  Good luck to them, even!  

 

What I've noticed a lot on ALL forums is that there is always an element who will want to determine how other players spend their gaming time.  Who want to define what is fun and decry anything else is wrong.   I find that sad. 

 

In short, I couldn't give a F why retail players are pissed off with these servers.  It seems to me that a large number of them are determined to be pissed off about something, why should we care?

 

It might be considered that in becoming embittered about how retail players are discussing us, we are just as bad?  It is in fact turning this forum into the same pit of negativity and I don't see the point.

 

Looking forward to the 12th and kicking horde butt in WSG again   lol

Edited December 10, 2016 by Geiela

[Xykaru 1]

I don't really give a damn about what retail is doing these days.  It stopped being the WoW I love a long time ago - I would even argue that as the original developers left, it isn't even WoW as intended any more.

 

 

From my understanding, the developers of Diablo/D2/D2LoD (AMAZING games btw, D3 plain sucked) were the original devs of WoW, but they ended up quitting because Blizzard wanted WoW to be something other than 'the perfect game'. That is why the devs supposedly went on to create Torchlight and Torchlight 2. Torchlight 2 was phenomenal, but they really ваууed up hard by making the servers open, therefore allowing mods etc.

 

I'd play Torchlight 2 online via closed servers any day, but they don't have enough population.

[Rayaleith 2]

This really isn't rocket science people. The answer is simply difference of opinion.

 

I have friends that hate every aspect of vanilla. They think it is garbage.

 

An example of this was one of my more recent discussions: Topic, classes.

"What is the point in playing vanilla if only a few classes work, hybrids are garbage and even if you play them it is no fun. Some pure classes are also just straight up stupid and not worth bringing"

 

My response: "So you are telling me not all classes were the same. You also needed all classes in a raid or you would miss out on important buffs. It doesn't matter if you took more of some classes than others. The differences also made for some good dynamic in raid composition and also gave extra logistical concerns for Guild Leaders. I think unique is a good thing.

 

If we compare this to legion, where classes don't even bring buffs to a raid, all you are looking at is DPS, HEALING, TANKING. sounds pretty boring to me"

 

 

TL:DR - some people think differently from us. вау em xD

 

 

You obviously don't know the reason. They removed "buffs" so as to avoid being forced to bring a specific class to the raid. What you call "good dynamic composition" is artificial. It is not a good enough reason to being someone because of the buff her class provide! It is wrong design decision. Being forced to get a dwarf priest with you was wrong. I remember back then that we had to bring a really retard player to our raids just to cast fear ward. This is not normal and this is definitely not in the spirit of an MMO. It is not normal to wait for the WARRIOR to come just because the other tanks were not good enough. This is not good design!!

The same applies to other things that decided to distribute among classes. What they did instead, was make classes shine to some bosses which is very cool. At Siege of Orgrimar - Siegecrafter Blackfuse (I will only to refer to mythic mode), hunters were the best but not the only class, that could handle conveyor belt! (I know some will not even know what I mean here...). Same applied to tanking. DKs were better at specific bosses, warriors at others. Healing. Some were better at specific fights as well.  Buffs do not make the variety! What are you talking about? What was the fun on pressing the same key for Pallypower casting the buffs every 5 minutes, just to justify your spot? Druids were not allowed to use their innvervate on themselves! They needed to keep it for priests! Rogues could have an addon that did the rotation for them with one button. etc.

 

You really need to distinguish good design from nostalgia. Your argument is totally the opposite. At vanilla there were only dps, healing and tanks. You would almost never see a moonkin! Not an elemental shaman (please do not start with "our guild brought one elem". we are talking about the general rule). You almost never saw a feral (cat)! Not even a BM hunter!! Never a prot paladin (apart from some special cases in trash). Now if this is not boring, what is boring exactly? 

At TBC and later you started seeing some variety at last! Class design was still poor in general (lock still only SBing for instance), but at least you could see paladin tanks, elemental shamans and some moonkins at raids! That was great! At WotLK you saw really really strong Retri Paladins (undead  mobs played a part to this but so what?). And so on.

If the game stayed to vanilla, it would have been dead after 4-5 years tops. 40-man raid was cool back then but were not there to stay. It is more difficult to balance, it is a nightmare for raid leaders. If we ever wanted to see hybrids play other specs than their "vanilla actual role", 40 man raids were not viable to do so. They would never managed to balance it. Period.

Now on the cool pictures you post. I was there. In both live and Nost. And are cool. But please keep in mind that there were max 2 servers.... It is normal to be that full. There are still full servers (more than 2 of course) at live. You just don't see pictures, because people have moved on. They expect more from the game than staying at IF because raiding week ended at Wednesday. There is nothing to explore any more just in azeroth. It is not like it used to be when you discovered a cave or a hidden NPC somewhere. Now all is documented, every inch of the land!

 

So in case you are wondering, why I spent my time writing these (there are much more to write), knowing that I will get flamed... I did that because I loved the game back then AND now. And I don't like seeing post like "legion kids" from ignorant people that do not know where anyone come from. I raided every single expansion to highest mode, I heavy PvPed at high level in 2 expansions and I am not a kid. Having millions of people still playing the game after 12 years, means that most of the arguments here are not very accurate (not all posts contain arguments of course ). I WILL play at the new server but really, 15-20K people playing a game is not a movement if you still have millions play at live. It is just a sweet nice oldie that we enjoy to play. And please stop with the labels on people that enjoy live as well.

I will enjoy though what I miss from live; your actions did matter on the server! If you were a good player, people knew it! If you were a good (or nasty) pvper, the opposite faction was hunting you! That was so cool! I remember back then when the first Rank14 was a mage (cannot remember the name, he was Italian) and we gathered some people, ambushed him in a BG, our mage polly-ed and we all cast our spells at the same time to one shot him. It was fun because this screenshot appeared at the server forum And people laughed and the mage himself laughed Good times. These I miss. Not the poor design....

Edited December 10, 2016 by Rayaleith

[Zealotz 0]

^ I think the xpac where they found a good balance was WotLK. Classes still had a personality, things distinguishing them from one another other not as extreme as the fear ward but not as niche as "A hunter is better for this specific mechanic of this specific boss". As you said Vanilla would have died if it remained in its original design forever and they certainly did good things with the game. But I don't understand when you say that classes got better designed as time went on.

I'm more talking from a PvP standpoint, didn't raid much back then. But I can say for sure that classes had interactions other than stun/burst/dps/heal. Cata was also okay on that level, and starting from MoP it was garbage. The ваууing "Bring the player, not the class" actually destroyed half of the game for me. Class mechanics made sense before that, and interacted with one another in a fun way even if it was broken as you described with your post (Again, talking more of a PvP standpoint but it still make sense in PvE). There used to be a structure behind classes and roles and now it's gone.

That's why I (respectfully) disagree with you and don't get it when you say -

 

You really need to distinguish good design from nostalgia. Your argument is totally the opposite. At vanilla there were only dps, healing and tanks. You would almost never see a moonkin! Not an elemental shaman (please do not start with "our guild brought one elem". we are talking about the general rule). You almost never saw a feral (cat)! Not even a BM hunter!! 

Variety doesn't equal good design. Back then, classes/specs archetypes were so strong that you needed a Prot Warrior, a Holy Priest or a Frost Mage because they did the job better than any other class. "There were only DPS, Healers and Tanks" - I don't get it. Now that they completely pushed the "Bring the player" thing of theirs, that's actually true, but for BC and WotLK it wasn't. All classes are now basically the same, look at them. Take a checklist with the words "Silence, Burst CD, Proc ability, Defensive CD" and you've got there 99% of the DPS pool.

It was good design to create unique classes different from one another, hindered by a lack of balance that led to poor variety. I don't think the game was balanced back in BC, it had no DR, PoM Pyro, Paladin with 0 res on their gear,... But it was fun because we could see Druids, Mages and Paladins interact with one another and not Tank, Dps and heals.