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Lopherus

Molten Core Clear - Quintessences/Integrity

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This might have been discussed, but I didn't see it. The infamous MC within about 11 days of vanilla launch might have been officially celebrated, but it raises questions not only because it seems doubtful that the gear would allow for this (and doing it with a group of many not even 60s). However, far more astounding is that this raid group must have had multiple essences. Obtaining an essence not only means that you are honored with Hydraxian, but already have killed the 4 lieutenants. The person with the leaked stream isn't even close to friendly, in any case. Anyone? How did that work: 1-60(ish) + essences farmed successfully in 11 days, which means at least 1 (2 really with trash quest part) prior trip to MC, or several people hearthing out during the raid after lieutenant kills and being summoned back, already having been about honored prior to this raid, and having been in there before too to do an earlier step (killing some trash)? Note that a hypothetical path through completion on the go, trip to azshara for turn in, includes, in the best possible scenario, two such round-trips (trash + honored, turn in in azshara, then kill lieutenants, turn in in azshara); and that no lieutenant can be touched before the first round-trip is completed, or the follow-up quest to kill the 4 lieutenants is impossible to do in the same run. The person streaming, in any case, had never killed trash before this run as is visible in the early parts of the video. 

 

There is nothing to celebrate about such an early clear. This isn't because I'm jealous - I'm a consciously slow leveler, and couldn't care less when future raid loggers get happy however they managed to do this. It just means that a primary goal for many got trivialized under circumstances that make you scratch your head. It also makes you wonder if, maybe, raids are nerfed here, which I, at least, would find regrettable. 

 

This prior paragraph aside, I do not understand how the raid could have had enough quintessences. I would appreciate an explanation to further my belief in server integrity. 

Edited by Lopherus

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You can summon people back and forth for dousing, you really only need one person honoured. Either way It's not really a big issue.

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1 minute ago, Swineflu said:

You can summon people back and forth for dousing, you really only need one person honoured. Either way It's not really a big issue.

Server integrity is not a big issue, and best addressed by pooh-poohing it?  

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What exactly do you not get? It's entirely feasible to have enough dousers this early on. Just because you're a moron who can't work that out doesn't mean there's something wrong with the server integrity.

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you can summon people back and forth without issue.

 

MC is and will always be undertuned due to 1.12 talents and mechanics being implemented, especially when you play the faction with paladins. Nost was only harder at the start because half of the bosses had bugs that made them retard strength.

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30 minutes ago, Ironsides said:

you can summon people back and forth without issue.

 

MC is and will always be undertuned due to 1.12 talents and mechanics being implemented, especially when you play the faction with paladins. Nost was only harder at the start because half of the bosses had bugs that made them retard strength.

No one can have an essence before the final lieutenant dies. Then, hypothetically, you can start porting+flying+summoning (how unlikely all other requirements being fulfilled is). None of this happens though if you watch the video. People leave to repair and check for new fire res gear. Then the raid continues. The questions about the quintessences I raise are not answered. 

As to the gear, I have no trouble believing that extremely competent raiders can possibly pull this off. That's not what my post is about. 

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8 minutes ago, Lopherus said:

No one can have an essence before the final lieutenant dies. Then, hypothetically, you can start porting+flying+summoning (how unlikely all other requirements being fulfilled is). None of this happens though if you watch the video. People leave to repair and check for new fire res gear. Then the raid continues. The questions about the quintessences I raise are not answered. 

As to the gear, I have no trouble believing that extremely competent raiders can possibly pull this off. That's not what my post is about. 

Elementals in Silithus grants rep up to honored. Therefore it's likely that they had a one or a few guys grind them from level 55+ or so. The logistical part is easily solved with summons and/or portals for a group that is going for this.

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17 minutes ago, innocentgamer said:

he farmed honored solo in silithus on the elementals. after that they just waited one hour between douses + darn port

No. The first quintessence can have been obtained no earlier than after the last lieutenant died - 3-4 hours into the video. The one hour between douses reference is irrelevant because he for sure was not revered and had an Eternal Quintessence; so multiple simple quintessences were used (and if 1 person had used an eternal essence - earliest use: more than 4 hours into the run -, with 1 hour cd between, then we're talking 11-12 hour raid). That means several people had already satisfied this, and went to Azshara to get essences at the earliest about 4 hours in. It involved summoning back, re-tracing path to old bosses just to douse, and what have you -one shouldn't forget that getting to the alliance FP in Azshara from Darnassus, and riding to the quest giver there takes quite a while. There is simply no evidence for this in the video, certainly not about one person being summoned multiple times.  And if it didn't happen, the lieutenants would have to have been killed before - how?

I let people add comments now, and be quiet. I made my points. Based on what I've seen, my best guess is that MC didn't require the dousing to summon Rag. 

Edited by Lopherus

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4 hours ago, Lopherus said:

No. The first quintessence can have been obtained no earlier than after the last lieutenant died - 3-4 hours into the video. The one hour between douses reference is irrelevant because he for sure was not revered and had an Eternal Quintessence; so multiple simple quintessences were used (and if 1 person had used an eternal essence - earliest use: more than 4 hours into the run -, with 1 hour cd between, then we're talking 11-12 hour raid). That means several people had already satisfied this, and went to Azshara to get essences at the earliest about 4 hours in. It involved summoning back, re-tracing path to old bosses just to douse, and what have you -one shouldn't forget that getting to the alliance FP in Azshara from Darnassus, and riding to the quest giver there takes quite a while. There is simply no evidence for this in the video, certainly not about one person being summoned multiple times.  And if it didn't happen, the lieutenants would have to have been killed before - how?

I let people add comments now, and be quiet. I made my points. Based on what I've seen, my best guess is that MC didn't require the dousing to summon Rag. 

M8, here's the thing. It was most likely-99%-done legitimately. We have several people that are capable of dousing after the reqs are filled, I have no doubt that between the pug of three other guilds, they also have a small handful. 

 

I didnt watch the video all the way through, because the victory screams from the Ragnaros fight were weak as fuck, but from what you described it sounds really plausible. We're going to be doing it this week as well. 

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It is simple mate.

MC on Vanilla free shards is not even close to par with what retail Vanilla was.

Early raids were not hard but still a gear check. People may have more raid and class knowledge now but that does not give you the HP,Resist,Damage output etc. that was required to run the raid.

Anyone who says different never played retail vanilla and is probably just used to under tuned free shard raids.

 

As for the Aqual Quintessence depends what the requirements are on this server. If it was like the original release of MC and then I agree with you it should not be possible on one run. But if the requirements on here are different then it is possible.

Edited by KimmyG

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Kimmy I raided vanilla and simply put people were stupid compared to today. Everyone wearing tier 0, not consuming, no way to weed out shitters since damage and healing meters didn't exist. No LBRS fr buffing, no blasted lands buffs, 6 Prot tanks, everyone in a stupid as hellspec, healers stacking INT over every other stat, shamans/druids fighting over finkles lava dredger, no target of target, no downrank healing, THE TALENTS WERE AWFUL. Every rogue was a dagger rogue because that's what rogues are right? I know this because my guild did ALL OF THAT AND WE KILLED RAGNAROS IN RETAIL.

Here's the talent highlights from reddit, warriors dps sucked ass, mages dps sucked ass, rogues were hugely nerfed due to no + weapon skill.

Warriors Bloodthirst: Activates after dealing a killing blow. Your next weapon attack deals 100% increased damage. (So the #1 fury war dps ability in 1.12 was unusable in retail) Shield Slam didn’t even exist, instead you got Shield Discipline: While active, increases the amount of damage absorbed by your shield by 50%. In addition, increases the damage done by your Shield Bash ability by 200% and the threat it causes by 100%. Lasts 20 seconds. (So there’s one of the top threat abilities for tanks gone)

Priests : No Spiritual healing and no Spiritual Guidance, so RIP 10% healing and 25% spirit to healing. No pushback protection for heal and greater heal, only flash heal had pushback protection talent. Divine Spirit was the 30 point talent in disc so they couldn’t have Divine Spirit and a lot of holy. No power infusion.

Mages : RIP 3% crit from arcane instability, NO 6% HIT FROM TALENTS, No decreased threat in frost school, No winters chill so RIP 10% crit

Warlocks : I couldn’t find an impactful difference

Rogues : No +5 to weapon skills

Shaman : 10% cost reduction to totems instead of 25%, pushback protection for only lesser healing wave none for healing wave or chain heal, No Healing way

Druids : 60% instead of 70% pushback protection, no reduced cast time on healing touch, Innervate is the 30pt resto talent

Hunters : I don’t care

Paladins: No 5% crit in holy tree, no 12% to flash of light healing instead there’s a separate talent to make it 12% less mana, Blessing of kings was a 30 point ret talent

 

So how about you shut the hell up KimmyG, because you have no idea how people were back then. There was a gear check because people wore retarded gear, every person was trying to get their tier 1 gear, so for example mages wore arcanist, when we know today that greens with + frost damage DOUBLES your spellpower over arcanist. Either your memory is crap or you just never were there.

Edited by Haestingas
language

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No I know exactly how people where back then seeing as I played Retail since day 1 and was in one of the top guilds out there. These guys were not morons like you described and it was still a gear check.

So you either never really played vanilla or were in some shitknick guild who had no clue what they were doing. In either case all raids in wow were a gear check. MC on this server is not MC on retail completely under-tuned.

So you can not like what I have to say and go kick some rocks. But what I am saying is 100% truth.

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27 minutes ago, KimmyG said:

No I know exactly how people where back then seeing as I played Retail since day 1 and was in one of the top guilds out there. These guys were not morons like you described and it was still a gear check.

So you either never really played vanilla or were in some shitknick guild who had no clue what they were doing. In either case all raids in wow were a gear check. MC on this server is not MC on retail completely under-tuned.

So you can not like what I have to say and go kick some rocks. But what I am saying is 100% truth.

People were retarded. Still are. P sure the world first rag kill was recorded by a rogue not using slice and dice.

 

Not sure what you both are arguing about.  mc is undertuned because of talents, mechanics, and maybe scripting

nothing is gonna change that with this crew unless they inflate boss/trash  damage/armor/etc. they're never going to do that because of the outpour of pubbies screaming it isn't "blizzlike". 

blizzlike to them seems to be any form of vanilla wow in which they can finally raid successfully. They will gladly accept the absence of detrimental mechanics that a blizzlike server would have such as +hit only affecting yellow attacks as long as they can finally get those tier 1 boots. They don't care about the difficult journey, they just want the medal. Any suggestion to make the road comparable to how it was in the past will be drowned out

Edited by Ironsides

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Buddy he is just asking about how they acquired the Aqual Quintessence which originally took along time of rep farming and quests in MC to get which were required to get Rag to even spawn. Anyone who played retail in the early days will clearly know what the OP is asking about.

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Its seven quints, you really think its that hard to do this? Summon squad at Azshara, Summon squad at MC entrance, summon squad in MC for the runes. It would take around an hour at most to cleanse all of them, and that's including having to reclear to get to the Mag rune. You have to realize these guys rushed to 60 primarily to have a shot at getting the realm first MC clear. There's 3 guilds that joined together, all it would take is 1-2 people per guild that grinding elementals in Silithus and they would have the rep to do this.

Love the salt coming from accusers that have zero evidence.

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2 hours ago, Henceforth said:

To the OP:

 

Did you ever check the Elysium twitter?

https://twitter.com/elysium_dev/status/821858192179294209

But how Lucifron is yellow?

HAXOR!!!!

No. This picture was taken by Elysium GMs. They were in the dungeon (yes they can go there without your permission) following. Don't you think they weren't concerned or at least curious about this?

 

Next..

Watch the entire run right here (this is not a leaked stream, they streamed on PURPOSE!)

 

They were prepared. Your envy has reached unpredictable limits.

What if you answer my question, as opposed to just being arrogant? And what does developer twitter have to do with my question? It congratulates to a clear; my hunch is that MC is ill-scripted and does not require dousing (because then I have no trouble understanding what happened). If that is the case, then it is likely unintentional, and should be brought to the team's attention. 

Edited by Lopherus

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50 minutes ago, Haestingas said:

Its seven quints, you really think its that hard to do this? Summon squad at Azshara, Summon squad at MC entrance, summon squad in MC for the runes. It would take around an hour at most to cleanse all of them, and that's including having to reclear to get to the Mag rune. You have to realize these guys rushed to 60 primarily to have a shot at getting the realm first MC clear. There's 3 guilds that joined together, all it would take is 1-2 people per guild that grinding elementals in Silithus and they would have the rep to do this.

Love the salt coming from accusers that have zero evidence.

It's not even remotely easy in the first run ever (and more so if these are all characters who haven't been 60 a week - if they even are 60); and besides, none of this happened in the streamed video. 

Edited by Lopherus

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3 часа назад, Haestingas сказал:

, healers stacking INT over every other stat, shamans/druids fighting over finkles lava dredger, no target of target, no downrank healing, THE TALENTS WERE AWFUL. 

This^^

Ive played shaman and lava derdger was my weapon for raids +22int enchant on it = meni int ;) 

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5 minutes ago, Haestingas said:

The burden of proof is on you, not on them since there's perfectly plausible ways they could have done this.

While you appear to care about flaming (and I couldn't care less), I care about a correctly scripted server. My hope is that the developers notice what I point out here, and investigate if the act of having to use quintessences is correctly scripted, as well as the way to obtain them. 

Edited by Lopherus

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This should be very clear to everyone. They didn't cheat but the MC instance is not perfectly blizzlike. They use the mangos core, right? They call it the elysium core but it's basically just an adaptation of the mangos one.

Plus, they switched back to their original scripts after the whole nost drama if I understand it correctly.

Bottom line is this. It can't be blizzlike, it never will be.

There is another team building a new core from scratch. It will be interesting to see how their server turns out but for now this is what we got and it's pretty good for being free.

 

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Ok take the tinfoil hats off for a second. Lets address a few issues.

 

1) Quints - You only need 1 person who has completed the quest chain who can obtain a normal quint from the guy in Azshara, that person can travel back and forward to azshara as many times as is needed to put out all of the runes. There is no cooldown on the normal quint, its consumed so if you use summons/portals it would be possible to put all of the runes out in <30 mins. As another poster mentioned, there are ways of obtaining Hydraxian Waterlord reputation before MC comes out, you can get all of the pre-quests upto the lieutenants hands before even stepping foot in MC (infact i did this on Nostalrius and was the only person with quints and we killed rag in our first raid). So it is 100% possible, and 100% been done before that a raid can put out all of the runes on their first run.

 

On a side note - there are no eternal quints on any Elysium servers, they arnt introduced until Naxx. So no cooldown for anyone ever for quints, just the requirement to go and get another one in azshara.

 

 

2) Gear/Levels/11 days in how is it possible? - Most casters can get decent pre-raid gear through crafting, it wouldnt be easy but if players prioritized being at least ready enough, and they were all of sufficient skill a bunch of fresh 60's could clear MC. As for non-60's most of the healing classes do not get anything major between 58-60 sure theres some nice stuff but your downranking anyway. If the sub 60's were dps or tanks they'd be very ineffective though.

 

3) But what about FR? How can you kill rag without FR. Its called the UBRS buff, its game breaking and should be removed. It makes MC and BWL a joke, and means the FR requirement is 135, very easy for someone to get.

 

TL:DR? Very possible to clear MC the first time you get in there, does it mean its undertuned - maybe, does it mean its not blizlike - maybe, does it mean they cheated -no.

Edited by reagan

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