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Wortgewandt

Needs more Claws - How to Cat

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That's not really what we're talking about here. Manual crowd pummeler lost the 3 charges in TBC and instead kept the effect, however the effect had a 1 hr cooldown. Currently the weapon has 3 charges and no cooldown, so you can have a minute and a half of raw speed increase per pummeler. Sure you can only get up to 5 per hour but that's not really the point.

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Awesome Guide and shows what ferals are capable of and shows the strengths of this versatile class.

 

I was aware of the impact of the autohits inbetween the shifts since I haven't PvE'd that much 2 Question: Is the autoattack in Casterform depending on the last autoattack in Feral (swingtime-wise) or is it instant after you shift? Doesn't FB outdps Rip at a certain Crit %?

Once more cheers and keep the cat work up!

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I'm kind of new to vanilla Feral... but why take improved wrath as feral?

I rarely cast that spell as it is currently while leveling, will I be using it a lot at 60?

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You can use it for nature dps at vulnerable mobs/bosses like Chromaggus or Ossirian. On the other hand, Nature's Grasp is quite useful for farming and PvP ;)

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On 2/12/2017 at 10:17 PM, Wortgewandt said:

Supermacro - I cant stress enough, that is is probably the most needed addon. You need this to make the extended powershift macros work.

@Wortgewandt The way you say "extended power shift macros" makes me think you have some super special macros that make this easy to do. Is that true or are you just super skilled?

Right not I am trying to practice weaving caster form auto attacks in during a power shift. Could you please explain to me how you accomplish this so successfully and/or what I am doing wrong?

To do this I am using two macros, one called "Shred+Unshift" and the other called "Shift+Shred"

"Shred+Unshift" casts Shred (which starts a global cooldown) and simultaneously removes the Cat Form buff. This leaves me in caster form for the entire global cooldown which is enough time to start a caster form auto attack animation.

"Shift+Shred" casts Cat Form if I am in caster form (of course after the global cooldown has passed) and then casts Shred if I am in Cat Form.

Right now this can all be easily accomplished in under 2 seconds so that when "Shift+Shred" puts me back in Cat Form I get the next energy tick to put me up to 80 energy (+ 20 from Wolfhead Helm, + 40 from Furor, and + 20 from the energy tick)...

The only problem is that when the Shred from "Shred+Unshift" is dodged or parried and then I end up in Caster Form!! Is there a cleaver way to solve this using super macro? Or is the only solution to just increase my % hit?

How do you accomplish this task so  eloquently?

All the best,

Razorwynd

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/script u=UnitMana('Player'); c=CastSpellByName; f=UnitPowerType("Player"); if (u<=30) and (f==3) then c"Cat Form"; elseif (f==0) then c"Cat Form"; end;
/cast Shred

If you spam this macro, it will cast shred until you have less than 30 energy, at which point it will powershift to caster and back to cat.

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10 hours ago, Hudson said:
/script u=UnitMana('Player'); c=CastSpellByName; f=UnitPowerType("Player"); if (u<=30) and (f==3) then c"Cat Form"; elseif (f==0) then c"Cat Form"; end;
/cast Shred

If you spam this macro, it will cast shred until you have less than 30 energy, at which point it will powershift to caster and back to cat.

This is awesome, thank you. I've been using buff icon detection for shift macros, but unit power type is so much better and simpler.

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Head - Wolfshead Helm
Neck - Mark of Fordring - 1% Crit 26 AP
Shoulders - Truestrike Shoulders - 2% Hit 24AP
Back - Cape of the Black Baron - 35AP 0.75% Crit
Chest - Cadavarous Armor - 85.6 AP 0.40%Crit
Bracers - Blackmist Armguards - 1% Hit
Hands - Devilsaur Gauntlets - 28AP 1% Crit
Belt - Cloudrunners Girdle - 45.8AP 0.75% Crit
Legs - Devilsaur Leggings - 46AP 1% Crit 2% Hit
Feet - Sandstalker Ankleguard - 30.1AP 0.85% Crit
Ring 1 - Tarnished Elven Ring - 15AP 0.75% Crit 1% Hit
Ring 2 - Tarnished Elven Ring - 15AP 0.75% Crit 1% Hit
Trinket 1 - Hand of Justice - 20AP Proc Effect
Trinket 2 - Blackhand's Breadth - 2% Crit
Weapon: Impervious Giant - 1% Hit 2% Crit
11.75% Crit 8% Hit AP 370.5 AP

Head - Wolfshead Helm
Neck - Mark of Fordring - 1% Crit 26 AP
Shoulders - Truestrike Shoulders - 2% Hit 24AP
Back - Cape of the Black Baron - 35AP 0.75% Crit
Chest - Shadowcraft Tunic - 26AP 1.1% Crit
Bracers - Shadowcraft Bracers - 0.75% Crit 15 AP
Hands - Shadowcraft Gloves - 0.70% Crit 33.9 AP
Belt - Shadowcraft Belt - 33.8AP 0.70% Crit
Legs - Shadowcraft Pants - 1.25% Crit 51.4 AP
Feet - Shadowcraft Boots - 1.05% Crit 21 AP
Ring 1 - Tarnished Elven Ring - 15AP 0.75% Crit 1% Hit
Ring 2 - Tarnished Elven Ring - 15AP 0.75% Crit 1% Hit
Trinket 1 - Hand of Justice - 20AP Proc Effect
Trinket 2 - Blackhand's Breadth - 2% Crit
Weapon: Impervious Giant - 1% Hit 2% Crit
12.8% Crit 5% Hit 409.2AP 35 Energy Restore on hits

Elysium content patch. I'm leaning towards Shadowcraft being the better options, between the two, from what I've seen as-well it seems like it's the case.

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If that is true then it seems like a really small boost to energy regent... I heard reports of 10% which made me reconsider

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@Wortgewandt 

I'd like you to post an accurate BIS list for Elysium's current patch since i do want to know if the devilsaur+dungeon pieces is better than the shadowcraft set or not.

 

@DruidPlayer Why do you name Impervious Giant as BIS? Isn't the Bonecrusher alot better?

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T

54 minutes ago, Sirstephen said:

 

@DruidPlayer Why do you name Impervious Giant as BIS? Isn't the Bonecrusher alot better?

To get a higher hit% ... although from my experience in MC with 6% I only have 1.7% misses on white hits and 0.3% misses on shred. So I am not sure how much it is worth it to gimp your stats on bracers and weapon just to get to 8%

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thesis: 5/5 Ingrimm, Wolfshead Helm and the proper use of powershifting are the most crucial sources of cat feral dps.

Honestly! For years I thought it would be a huge difference in dps when I get one of these shiny dps maces (like Blessed Qiraji War Hammer), because it has so much AP, but after heavy testing on my own repack of Elysium, I come to the conclusion that gear is not really that important at all. 300 AP does not crucially increase my dps. If I spawn a dungeon boss, permastun it and just dps, then I don't see a huge increase with or without one of these 300 AP maces. Isn't that batshit crazy?!

Other opinions? :p

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On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 11:45 AM, Mahtan said:

thesis: 5/5 Ingrimm, Wolfshead Helm and the proper use of powershifting are the most crucial sources of cat feral dps.

Honestly! For years I thought it would be a huge difference in dps when I get one of these shiny dps maces (like Blessed Qiraji War Hammer), because it has so much AP, but after heavy testing on my own repack of Elysium, I come to the conclusion that gear is not really that important at all. 300 AP does not crucially increase my dps. If I spawn a dungeon boss, permastun it and just dps, then I don't see a huge increase with or without one of these 300 AP maces. Isn't that batshit crazy?!

Other opinions? :p

Can you post screenies of your dps meters with and without the shiny weapons ? would be interested to see your numbers.

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On 5/18/2017 at 9:06 AM, DruidPlayer said:

Elysium content patch. I'm leaning towards Shadowcraft being the better options, between the two, from what I've seen as-well it seems like it's the case.

Does anyone have any experience with shadowcraft on elysium of ZK... I am actively working towards getting the last two pieces I need to be able to test this out.

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On 5/23/2017 at 10:30 PM, Razorwynd said:

Does anyone have any experience with shadowcraft on elysium of ZK... I am actively working towards getting the last two pieces I need to be able to test this out.

There's not much to say. Looking at his list, you drop 3% hit and gain 1% crit/39AP/4% chance to restore 35 energy. I'd argue that the energy restoration proc is irrelevant in PvE for current content. Fights are so short that you won't be running out of mana for power shifting on anything but Garr. In addition, the proc is not predictable and could proc in situations where it does literally nothing eg. right after dropping to 0 energy from Shreds, or when you're going to tick from 80 -> 100 energy due to an Omen of Clarity proc.

After considering that it's just a comparison of the item stats - which you can verify on the BIS list (here's an edited version I made to help myself track my own gear sets/upgrades for the Elysium content patch). If you're going for pure combat value stats and don't care about the hit cap, then you can do waaaayyyy better than 6/8 Shadowcraft. Here's some examples of what you'd change:

+15 converted AP going from Shadowcraft Bracers -> Bracers of the Eclipse
+15 converted AP going from Shadowcraft Belt -> Cloudrunner Girdle
+25 converted AP going from Impervious Giant -> Bonecrusher

Also, currently in this patch Shadowcraft Boots are something like 4 Agility/9 Stamina, so going from that to Swiftwalker Boots is a ~40 converted AP gain. As you can see we're already ahead by a very large margin after only changing 3 Shadowcraft pieces out.

The only reason I would equip 6/8 Shadowcraft in PvE is if you desperately need the stamina for whatever reason.

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I agree that it should primarily help with efficiency and not dps. However, i am still running out of mana on some fights and I never power shift if I have 4 or 5 combo points. I always just wait for enough energy to FB. (I am not using mana pots or innervate, but if I am looking to improve my efficiency i guess I should start there)

Also Impervious Giant is not part of the shadowcraft set....

By the way why do you list "of Tiger" amulets as BIS for current patch. By my math "of Tiger" = (10*2.4)+(10*2.1) = 24+21 = 45 < 48 = Mark of Fordring

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13 hours ago, Razorwynd said:

I agree that it should primarily help with efficiency and not dps. However, i am still running out of mana on some fights and I never power shift if I have 4 or 5 combo points. I always just wait for enough energy to FB. (I am not using mana pots or innervate, but if I am looking to improve my efficiency i guess I should start there)

Also Impervious Giant is not part of the shadowcraft set....

 

Certainly, I was just using that as an example of what you'd do if you actually were going all in on converted attack power rather than hit. In MC the only fight you'll be asked to innervate other players on is Rag, so mana really shouldn't be a problem for you. If it is, just bring a few Superior or Major Mana Potions. You'll only need 1 per boss for about 50% of the bosses.

13 hours ago, Razorwynd said:

By the way why do you list "of Tiger" amulets as BIS for current patch. By my math "of Tiger" = (10*2.4)+(10*2.1) = 24+21 = 45 < 48 = Mark of Fordring

As I said, this was for personal use. I took the healing ring from this quest reward rather than the Mark, because I already had a +10/+10 and the difference between that and the Mark is negligible, whereas the healing ring will be excellent for a very long time.

Remember that the strength of a feral druid is your versatility. In my last MC, I tanked on Lucifron, DPS'd Magmadar, DPS'd Gehennas, tanked Garr, DPS'd Geddon, tanked Shazzrah, tanked Harbinger, DPS'd Golemagg, tanked Majordomo, and healed Ragnaros.

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10 hours ago, insearchofthe said:

Certainly, I was just using that as an example of what you'd do if you actually were going all in on converted attack power rather than hit. In MC the only fight you'll be asked to innervate other players on is Rag, so mana really shouldn't be a problem for you. If it is, just bring a few Superior or Major Mana Potions. You'll only need 1 per boss for about 50% of the bosses.

As I said, this was for personal use. I took the healing ring from this quest reward rather than the Mark, because I already had a +10/+10 and the difference between that and the Mark is negligible, whereas the healing ring will be excellent for a very long time.

Remember that the strength of a feral druid is your versatility. In my last MC, I tanked on Lucifron, DPS'd Magmadar, DPS'd Gehennas, tanked Garr, DPS'd Geddon, tanked Shazzrah, tanked Harbinger, DPS'd Golemagg, tanked Majordomo, and healed Ragnaros.

Fully agree 

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I'm curious about why the threshold for agi > strength is 33% crit - how was this derived? Is it because once 1/3 of your attacks will crit, ap is somehow better?

I go over 40% crit fully raid buffed and have tried using squid + scorpok assay instead of roids + sunfruit in order to gain another ~3% crit with kings, since I figure the closer I am to 45% crit, the closer I am to an average of 5 more crits per 100 attacks. But I'm not sure how to approach weighing those 5 extra crits per 100 attacks against the added dps increase that more ap would give all my attacks.

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26 минут назад, Nostalian сказал:

I'm curious about why the threshold for agi > strength is 33% crit - how was this derived? Is it because once 1/3 of your attacks will crit, ap is somehow better?

I go over 40% crit fully raid buffed and have tried using squid + scorpok assay instead of roids + sunfruit in order to gain another ~3% crit with kings, since I figure the closer I am to 45% crit, the closer I am to an average of 5 more crits per 100 attacks. But I'm not sure how to approach weighing those 5 extra crits per 100 attacks against the added dps increase that more ap would give all my attacks.

idk rly about 33% seems like  it is  because once 1/3 of your attacks will crit, ap is somehow better.

5% Crit~ 110AP

dense stone +8 dmg = 112 AP

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On 8.10.2017 at 8:46 PM, lorthiras said:

idk rly about 33% seems like  it is  because once 1/3 of your attacks will crit, ap is somehow better.

5% Crit~ 110AP

dense stone +8 dmg = 112 AP

dense stone shouldnt work actually. is it still bugged?

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On 10/8/2017 at 8:27 PM, Nostalian said:

I'm curious about why the threshold for agi > strength is 33% crit - how was this derived? Is it because once 1/3 of your attacks will crit, ap is somehow better?

I go over 40% crit fully raid buffed and have tried using squid + scorpok assay instead of roids + sunfruit in order to gain another ~3% crit with kings, since I figure the closer I am to 45% crit, the closer I am to an average of 5 more crits per 100 attacks. But I'm not sure how to approach weighing those 5 extra crits per 100 attacks against the added dps increase that more ap would give all my attacks.

There is no simple rule here to answer you question. The question of Str vs Agi is really one about AP vs Crit. The more AP you have the more valuable Crit is and the CRIT you have the more valuable AP is... they are like the yin and the yang of melee DPS and you really want a balance of both...But I will try to answer you question, which will require me to make a few assumptions about your char and play style.

Quote

Talents --- Standard DPS build i.e., 5/5 Natural Weapons; 5/5 Feral Aggression

Damage composition --- 35% white damage 45% Shred damage 20% Ferocious bite damage

Fully Raid Buffed (i.e., world buffed) --- 200 DPS in the character sheet; 1500 AP in the character sheet; 40% Crit; >8.6% Hit

 

Given these quoted assuption, then 44 Str would results in a DPS increase of 4.1% and 41.8 Agi would yeild a 3.4% increase in DPS

Not sure you would really be able to detect the difference between the two...

 

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4 hours ago, Razorwynd said:

Given these quoted assuption, then 44 Str would results in a DPS increase of 4.1% and 41.8 Agi would

Not sure you would really be able to detect the difference between the two...

 

Thanks for the reply! How'd you arrive at the numbers for each dps increase?

 

I've been theorycrafting hard with a friend who I inspired to write a sim for feral druids. So far reaching crit cap seems to be much more important than adding on AP once you're past a certain AP threshold, and that AP threshold is easily reachable with raid buffs + weight stones. I'll personally be experimenting a bit in the next few weeks by swapping out some strength enchants for agi ones, consuming more for agi, and possibly even dropping down to 6-8% hit in order to stack more stats / boost my crit. 

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