Nosleep 4 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, kilimaw said: Every single voiced problem here can be solved via in game means. Every. One. Which is the main reason no one has been banned. Wintrading? Cuz horde sheeps alliance or vice versa? Last I checked sheeping a player or mob doesn't instantly make them full health and immune to damage. Bring more people. In game solution. Which is exactly why almost everything in world PvP is not wintrading. Anything anyone can do to help the other faction can be countered by more players, more organization, etc. You can't do that in a BG because a BG is a controlled environment. Communication? Blizzard made forums so everyone regardless of faction can communicate outside of the game. Blizzard made the game so opposite factions could not communicate in the game. None of them are communicating in the game. This is classic "I want it butt I don't want to work for it" syndrome. Someone went to the crater. Couldn't get what they wanted in 10 minutes and decided a whine post would get it easier than making friends in this massive MULTIPLAYER online role-playing game. The online equivalent of throwing a tantrum. ok 1st: im not on elysium, never have been, and i would love this mafia to come to ZK and try to chase me out of un'goro.. cos i would murder them all happily. And i have stated previously on these forums, openly, calling the mafia out and stating that i am more than happy with the idea of co-op farming and if they want to threaten me they can, and ill kill them all.. i told them... so your argument is very poor. 2: there is an ingame game solution to win trading, but because its considered unfair and cheating to purposefully assist the opposing faction to win pvp battles, it was decided, upon it being discovered, that win trading would be introduced into the rules... and so it was... and not just because it has no in game counter measure, because it does, you could just get more friends and win trade more... but because it was clearly abusing a system and unfair, we all agree its cheating. Just cos they cant prove something, doesnt make it ok. there are in game solutions to bots, but we still say its cheating. there are in game solutions to 'griefing' but we still says its not ok.. there are exceptions to that concept of ''in game solution, not our problem'', its the principle that normally dictates if we thinks its fair or not. But to be fair, your attitude is ridiculistic with insulting overtones, making assumptions about me that are clearly wrong as im not even effected by this problem... which clearly shows you are just the sort of person who enjoys belittling ppl even though you clearly dont understand their point at all. rules change, new rules are made to accommodate new situations, the in game solution argument is also valid for win trading but its still considered cheating. also, dont quote blizz rules as though that means anything, we are breaking their rules just by playing here.. so they obviously dont matter to us, we cherry pick the ones we want to follow (or the admins do i should say) and they also modify anything they feel they need to , to accommodate specific situations, like the recent war effort. EDIT: ''crying cos i cant get summit in 10 mins???'' are u serious?, i was rank 12 vanilla retail with no premade or account share, i pug farmed the whole thing, i also server 1st the entire content of TBC expac upto and including m'uru pre nerf.. so dont talk to me about crying cos i cant get something in 10 mins.. you have no idea who i am. Edited March 9, 2017 by Nosleep 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nosleep 4 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 If i was a GM here, I would investigate every person who supports these guys, because chances are 1/2 of them are youtube trolls and the other half are involved, and while i have no evidence of gold selling, i bet there is some. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Irisai 8 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) truly the topic that never dies. I would think by this point everyone would have their devilsaur set and this would be a non issue. Edited March 9, 2017 by Ariatris 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wickedwizard 2 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ariatris said: truly the topic that never dies. I would think by this point everyone would have their devilsaur set and this would be a non issue. the best topic, the greatest topic. lets make this topic great again 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilimaw 3 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, Nosleep said: ok 1st: im not on elysium, never have been, and i would love this mafia to come to ZK and try to chase me out of un'goro.. cos i would murder them all happily. And i have stated previously on these forums, openly, calling the mafia out and stating that i am more than happy with the idea of co-op farming and if they want to threaten me they can, and ill kill them all.. i told them... so your argument is very poor. 2: there is an ingame game solution to win trading, but because its considered unfair and cheating to purposefully assist the opposing faction to win pvp battles, it was decided, upon it being discovered, that win trading would be introduced into the rules... and so it was... and not just because it has no in game counter measure, because it does, you could just get more friends and win trade more... but because it was clearly abusing a system and unfair, we all agree its cheating. Just cos they cant prove something, doesnt make it ok. there are in game solutions to bots, but we still say its cheating. there are in game solutions to 'griefing' but we still says its not ok.. there are exceptions to that concept of ''in game solution, not our problem'', its the principle that normally dictates if we thinks its fair or not. But to be fair, your attitude is ridiculistic with insulting overtones, making assumptions about me that are clearly wrong as im not even effected by this problem... which clearly shows you are just the sort of person who enjoys belittling ppl even though you clearly dont understand their point at all. rules change, new rules are made to accommodate new situations, the in game solution argument is also valid for win trading but its still considered cheating. also, dont quote blizz rules as though that means anything, we are breaking their rules just by playing here.. so they obviously dont matter to us, we cherry pick the ones we want to follow (or the admins do i should say) and they also modify anything they feel they need to , to accommodate specific situations, like the recent war effort. EDIT: ''crying cos i cant get summit in 10 mins???'' are u serious?, i was rank 12 vanilla retail with no premade or account share, i pug farmed the whole thing, i also server 1st the entire content of TBC expac upto and including m'uru pre nerf.. so dont talk to me about crying cos i cant get something in 10 mins.. you have no idea who i am. Never said you were and don't care about your life story or your murder ability. In fact I didn't quote you or mention a specific server, and my 'argument' has nothing whatsoever to do with you, elysium, in game threats, or whatever the hell else you were talking about. Everything I covered was brought up and discussed before you even entered this thread. Maybe you should stop and think about why my post made you so defensive. Based on your first paragraph, if you hadn't quoted me, I would have assumed you were talking to someone else. Still not sure if you just accidentally quoted me or not. Fine. You got me. There is an in game solution to BG wintrading as well. Well technically if the BG wintraders farmed more honor than is physically possible for a non wintrader or group of non wintraders to farm then there is no in game solution besides to also wintrade. Because BG's are a closed system. World PvP is not. You can always bring more people to world PvP, adjust your strat. Whatever. That's the difference and that's why one is wintrading and the other is not. I suppose I should have said "ToS Legal in game solution" in my original post. Butt lets just reiterate. You can ToS legally counter anything that has been brought up about devilsaurs the crater and world PvP. You can not ToS legally counter BG wintrading. Because BG's are a closed system. The rest of your number 2 needs the disclaimer of "in battlegrounds or Arena". Without this disclaimer I mean LOL. Just think about it for one second. Besides the fact that it was made specifically for arena and BG's and only enforced in arena and BG's you would have to ban everyone that rode by a fight, walked by a fight, ignored a fight. You could never not engage in a fight for fear of being banned. You could never sheep anyone for fear of being banned. I mean. what if you came to help someone and aggroed a mob? That would be considered helping the opposite faction by attempting to kill your faction with said mob. You could never mind control, fear, die or any number of other things. What if you accidentally walked off a cliff? That could be considered letting the other faction win. BANNED. Everyone on the server would be banned week 1. As i said. LOL. Bots? Come on. That's your example? Botting is cheating because it's a third party program controlling a character. It has nothing to do with anything discussed in this thread. They both just happen to be against the ToS. Again. Never quoted you. Don't care about you. Never mentioned a server. Don't care what server you're on. I have no idea what you're talking about in your bottom edit. Stop projecting. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lapinlehmät 1 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 If nobody buys the stuff from AH the mafias/cartels are rendered useless - your choice. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spanishboss 1 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 TLDR- WTS LOADS OF LEATHER ALLIANCE, all you want. they include the tears of this pandaretail kids (thats an extra 5g) 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morathe 5 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Nosleep said: Again, by that logic, win trading normally in bg's is just using their access to time and communication and so shouldnt be against the rules .. but it was made against the rules once it was found ppl were doing it, blizz didnt say ''ok well np's cos everyone can win trade' they said no thats not fair and banned ppl for it. I am saying that the principle that lead to win trading being made against the rules and almost everybody agree's it should be, are present here and the comparison imo is very easy to see.. the principle is the point. no, this exact situation is not listed specifically in the rules, but win trading wasnt either untill its discovery, this need to be discussed because its the same thing. Win trading on bgs affect honor system, if allowed it would completely break ranking on a server. Un'goro monopoly on the other hand is surely profitable but just a part of economy. Being pushed away from devilsaur farm doesn't mean you can't get GOLD at all anymore or that you can't just get replacement gear given the circumstances (overpriced set). Just don't be entitled and u'll be fine folks. Anyway Un'Goro monopoly is direct reaction to CUSTOM CHANGES from devs making it impossible to farm dire maul for real profit anymore. Hunters can't solo tribute cause they are getting teleported in front of the King, I heard boss runs and aoe runs are nerfed to the bone also. Unnerf DM tribute runs for hunters and DM east runs and u'll see less fierce competition in Un'Goro cuz believe me... its not as fun as you think that whenever you login you get insta invited and spam summoned cause your people need help with hostiles or with tagging. Edited March 9, 2017 by Morathe 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spanishboss 1 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 WTS devilsaur leathers, i have millions. pls pst. Alliance or Horde since im everywhere. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fladrif 14 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 ----Create a monopoly over an item X by exploiting the game mechanic that prevents same-faction players from attacking you. ----Set a fixed price for it (26g). -----Sell gold for real money by trading item X to your customer and asking him to sell it on AH for 25g. ----By trading 4 items, you've sold 100 gold. And none will notice it. Safe goldselling. ----Pay someone with real money to secure your monopoly: you ask them to be ready to login&gank/(and exploit the mechanics that prevents players from attacking same-faction) at different hours. Nobody else should be able to influence the price of item X. Sell gold ( that you don't even have to farm ) w/o risks. That's why monopoly is wrong. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nosleep 4 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, kilimaw said: Every single voiced problem here can be solved via in game means. Every. One. This is classic "I want it butt I don't want to work for it" syndrome. Someone went to the crater. Couldn't get what they wanted in 10 minutes and decided a whine post would get it easier than making friends in this massive MULTIPLAYER online role-playing game. The online equivalent of throwing a tantrum. Thats you, including me when you say ''Every single voiced problem here can be solved via in game means. Every. One.'' - or did you forget you wrote this? I disagreed with it and gave details why. And now you say u dont know why i said what i said, like you have no clue what i was on about - you are a lier or a complete idiot so talking to you after this post will be pointless. Thats also you saying ''This is classic "I want it butt I don't want to work for it" syndrome. Someone went to the crater. Couldn't get what they wanted in 10 minutes and decided a whine post would get it easier'' after referring to 'every single voiced problem' - thats you, talking to me and every other person who wants to debate this, and thats you including me in your claim its all just cry babies who cant get devilsaurs. why i meantion the server im on? To show the mafia dont effect me, so your claim is bogus, and i told a very brief few things about me to counter your claim i cry if i cant get it in 10 mins... but you know that, and so avoided all actual points and went for insults lol. now you pretend to not know what im on about.. lol, youre a complete idiot.. or a lier.. or both... sorry for personal insult, but my post was not insulting in the slightest and you just replied with anger and insults. you addressed everyone at the start of your post, you called everyone a cry baby... i totally destroyed your youtube troll style comments.. and then you pretend you dont know why i posted... oh dear can u back track and run any more? Edited March 9, 2017 by Nosleep 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nosleep 4 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) double post, deleted. Edited March 9, 2017 by Nosleep 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nosleep 4 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Spanishboss said: TLDR- WTS LOADS OF LEATHER ALLIANCE, all you want. they include the tears of this pandaretail kids (thats an extra 5g) 2 hours ago, Spanishboss said: WTS devilsaur leathers, i have millions. pls pst. Alliance or Horde since im everywhere. entry lvl troll who actually enjoys upsetting ppl.. wow.. what a nice guy... is this your 1st day as a troll? dont bother mate, dont turn in to 1 of them pathetic human beings who takes enjoyment from trying to hurt and upset others. oh sorry thats right, youre prob a lovely person off line, you only act like that online cos youre too scared to act like that in public... turn back b4 its too late dude, i mean it, there are better ways to be in life. Edited March 9, 2017 by Nosleep 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nosleep 4 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Fladrif said: ----Create a monopoly over an item X by exploiting the game mechanic that prevents same-faction players from attacking you. ----Set a fixed price for it (26g). -----Sell gold for real money by trading item X to your customer and asking him to sell it on AH for 25g. ----By trading 4 items, you've sold 100 gold. And none will notice it. Safe goldselling. ----Pay someone with real money to secure your monopoly: you ask them to be ready to login&gank/(and exploit the mechanics that prevents players from attacking same-faction) at different hours. Nobody else should be able to influence the price of item X. Sell gold ( that you don't even have to farm ) w/o risks. That's why monopoly is wrong. hey dude, while i agree that them things (the gold selling) are against the rules and if found should be banned, and it does suggest they are doing that, the actual act of farming mobs and killing the competition is perfectly ok.... and without any actual proof (which i do feel they would find if they looked, but they dont have time they said) there is nothing they can do and cant ban the action, unless it also includes something that is banable. i hope u see my point and dont assume im claiming youre wrong about them gold selling, i think they are, but its not a valid argument without proof. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nosleep 4 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Morathe said: Win trading on bgs affect honor system, if allowed it would completely break ranking on a server. Un'goro monopoly on the other hand is surely profitable but just a part of economy. Being pushed away from devilsaur farm doesn't mean you can't get GOLD at all anymore or that you can't just get replacement gear given the circumstances (overpriced set). Just don't be entitled and u'll be fine folks. Anyway Un'Goro monopoly is direct reaction to CUSTOM CHANGES from devs making it impossible to farm dire maul for real profit anymore. Hunters can't solo tribute cause they are getting teleported in front of the King, I heard boss runs and aoe runs are nerfed to the bone also. Unnerf DM tribute runs for hunters and DM east runs and u'll see less fierce competition in Un'Goro cuz believe me... its not as fun as you think that whenever you login you get insta invited and spam summoned cause your people need help with hostiles or with tagging. I see what youre saying, but I never mentioned the money gains. I feel farming and killing the competition is perfectly ok and have said that many times. im not effected by this but im happy with the farming and would love them to come to ZK so i could go head to head with them, i have said that many times now. On a more personal note: I actually love the RP aspect of a group of people trying to take over an entire area or resource .. and if it was happening to me, I woulnt stop untill I had soooo many ppl destrying them that they were shamed into the shadows for ever thinking they were badass! :P ... take over un'goro?? - Let Alliance scum take over un'goro?? ... lol not on my watch :D My only point was the win trading comparison, or more accurately, the principle behind why win trading is felt by most to be unfair. I see and understand your point about the differences bettwen the effects of classic win trading and the PVP aspect of what these guys are doing, but because I agree with the principle behind why win trading is not ok, and i feel the co-op PVP aspect of this is exactly the same, I think it should be looked at in detail and discussed. They gain money and thats fine, but by doing this in the way they are, they are also gaining pvp victorys and rewards (honor, Hk's etc, however small or large it may be) by assisting the opposite faction to 'win' in PVP and so then getting that same favor returned, or traded, back to them.. they trade/share PVP victorys.. so the principle and outcome is the same. I dont know if you will mention blizz rules to me, but i have already explained how they are not a valid argument because just by being here, we show our desire to cherry pick and modify any we, or the admins, feel they want or need to for each specific situation, rules are changed and new ones introduced, and the PVP aspect of this is something i feel needs to be properly looked at. Edited March 9, 2017 by Nosleep 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spodler 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 I really don't understand howpeople can think that this "Mafia" is just a group of normal players. They do this Shit on 2 Realms for 3 Months+ and they do it 24/7. I could understand if they would do it for a few weeks to stock up a lot of Gold so they can all Raidlog and don't have to farm anymore. But for what Reason over 3 Months? In this time they stockpilled such alot of money, theres not even a meanigful way ingame to spend this much gold. So they do this for nearly 0 personal gain for 3 Months 24/7. Sorry but i can't believe that. The work that stands behind this "MAfia" is just way to big to tell me this is just a bunch of a random people who do this for fun (They have no Gain from it so the only reason left is fun). The only way this whole situation makes sense (in my eyes) is that this "Mafia" are just Goldsellers, because thats the only way that such a giant amount of gold is even meanigfull for them. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nosleep 4 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 3 hours ago, Morathe said: Win trading on bgs affect honor system, if allowed it would completely break ranking on a server. I think that any amount of win trading is not ok. example: If i was win trading, but didnt do it much, or stopped at a lesser amount so as not to 'break the system' or if I was doing it wrong :P or if i was just very inefficient and so my gains were less... I dont think that would be ok. Because its the principle thats not ok.. not the amount of gain. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BogyOne 2 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) Why do the people babble that this behavior is undefined? It is since hundreds of years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel Question is as straight as this: do admins tolerate it or no? Currently yes, end of story. Edited March 9, 2017 by BogyOne 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amfiketo 1 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 Don't understand all the drama you spill out in forums. We are talking about devilsaur leather from which you make 2 (two) items for exactly 3 classes (Rogue, Hunter and Warrior) out of 8 eight classes. We exclude Arms and Protection warriors and people who need them become even less. They are pre-BiS? Who gives a F*CK?? On Elysium Ragnaros was slain in 1 week with less then 40 people with green gear. Those 2 items won't make you suck less if you already do. You want to fight the mafia? Use 2 other items instead and don't feed them your gold through the AH. Let 'em waste their time farming it, why do you care? If nobody buys, it they'll be the f*cked ones. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nosleep 4 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, Amfiketo said: Don't understand all the drama you spill out in forums. We are talking about devilsaur leather from which you make 2 (two) items for exactly 3 classes (Rogue, Hunter and Warrior) out of 8 eight classes. We exclude Arms and Protection warriors and people who need them become even less. They are pre-BiS? Who gives a F*CK?? On Elysium Ragnaros was slain in 1 week with less then 40 people with green gear. Those 2 items won't make you suck less if you already do. You want to fight the mafia? Use 2 other items instead and don't feed them your gold through the AH. Let 'em waste their time farming it, why do you care? If nobody buys, it they'll be the f*cked ones. I like this, its very true, you dont need them items for entry raids, both because its skill>gear and there are many other items that are perfectly good enough. And the not buying it from AH boycot thing is also a great idea. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nosleep 4 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) LOL i know im being paranoid, but the timing is very coincidental lol :P I think I may have upset some ppl who may be making a lot of money out of this... i know its a leap, but lol :P This guy, lvl 6, just randomly came up to me at mail box and open trade and started putting gold into top bar ...333 ... i closed window.. he did it 2 more times and i close window and moved away... then he said this in screenshot. trying to get me banned boys? lol just come lvl here and fight me like a man.. Edited March 9, 2017 by Nosleep 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spanishboss 1 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Nosleep said: entry lvl troll who actually enjoys upsetting ppl.. wow.. what a nice guy... is this your 1st day as a troll? dont bother mate, dont turn in to 1 of them pathetic human beings who takes enjoyment from trying to hurt and upset others. oh sorry thats right, youre prob a lovely person off line, you only act like that online cos youre too scared to act like that in public... turn back b4 its too late dude, i mean it, there are better ways to be in life. fk you got me, i regret all isaid, sorry to everyone. WTS devilsaur leather, since i can actually farm all i want, bcause im not an autistic pandarian fuk who cant even gather enough ppl in a MMORPG to get what he wants. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
homu2 1 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 >Population: 6245 in prime time >-2k online in a week it's getting hard to sell any right? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morathe 5 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Nosleep said: I think that any amount of win trading is not ok. example: If i was win trading, but didnt do it much, or stopped at a lesser amount so as not to 'break the system' or if I was doing it wrong :P or if i was just very inefficient and so my gains were less... I dont think that would be ok. Because its the principle thats not ok.. not the amount of gain. Its very nice of you but you miss the point. I just said that allowing it as a general rule would break the system. Anyway I explained before why comparing cooperating between horde and alliance in world is totally different matter. Why they cooperate? because you can't kill alliance as alliance obviously. You'd be left with 2 options A) play a tag game (generally internet speed game cuz person with 100ms can't outtag a guy with 15ms) B) join and share gold. Option B is totally pointless cause you'd need to accept everyone that comes around which would drop the profitability by tons, also price would drop due to pure accessibility of devilsaur leather. Also major obstacle in "faction" cooperation is that people don't like each other... there are some guilds that have a grudge of a sort and don't want to work with each other. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spanishboss 1 Report post Posted March 9, 2017 1 hour ago, homu2 said: >Population: 6245 in prime time >-2k online in a week it's getting hard to sell any right? it is instant selling now that you ask, thanks for caring. You already know the exact fastest route to NW from GY right? :) 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
