The Devilsaur monopoly.

[Slicy 11]

http://monopoly.wikia.com/wiki/World_of_Warcraft_Edition?file=World_of_Warcraft_Edition.jpg

[Undertanker 88]

44 minutes ago, devilsaurPVEerBGwintrader said:

without a way for many players to farm gold.

I have a prot warrior and restro druid.   I farm gold no problem.  It's not that people don't have a way, they just don't have the know how and willingness to do so.

Also, people love running around in major cities for extended periods of time doing nothing yet complain about market.    

Random world epic drop chance 0.025% >   0% because you afk in main cities.

[Shiamorah 20]

1 minute ago, devilsaurPVEerBGwintrader said:

I got you

1) players should be banned for cross faction colluding in game which is incredibly obvious when it takes place and easily policed
2) devilsaurs should spawn at a random point on their pathing route and begin pathing immediately
3) timers should be dynamic and randomized

all of these changes would improve the social aspect of the game that the antisocial types in these threads love to rant about. Yes there are still ways to make less gold than there otherwise would be, sure, good point

Server is open source now, go for it bud. 

[Undertanker 88]

You shouldn't quote me and make up shit in the quote.

That being said:

This "cross faction colluding".   Could we also include the cross faction AH as colluding?  How about the joint portion of the war effort?  If I see a horde that is grinding/leveling/farming and I chose not to kill him, he returns the favor for me.   Other people show up and we kill them as they come to prevent over crowding, does that mean him and I are banned?  By your standards, yes.

Just like in 2005, the same stance is taken here.   The GMs will not intervene with issues that can be handled by the players themselves.  This includes the Un'goro Mafia/Cartels.

[gotmilk0112 10]

I don't think anyone wants to ban any/all "collusion", but just extreme cases like this.

 

Just like how, on retail servers, corpse camping would not get you banned....but corpse camping someone for excessive amounts of time, WOULD get you banned. Corpse camping was not bannable, but excessive corpse camping was bannable.

 

So, helping cross-faction would not be bannable, but large groups of people helping other large groups of people of the opposite faction in order to monopolize a mob, for long periods of time, would be bannable.

Edited March 12, 2017 by gotmilk0112

[Charles 0]

I don't see why anybody is taking up for these no life un'goro guys. I have been down there multiple times at 60 and can vouch that they have people from BOTH factions afk/stealthed out/on multiple accounts monitoring every devilsaur spawn.

I watched one hunter stand on an island one day in view of where a devilsaur spawns and for about an hour he just auto killed the 1 mob that spawned in his radius and then the rest of the time sat there.

I went by today and saw a lvl 60 rogue stealthed ona  tree branch on a devilsaur spawn afk, when I hit him he started moving.

I had a devilsaur spawn directly on top of me TWICE only to have both horde and alliance literally swarm me and take me out.

Not only is this bizzare behavior, but it has gone on way too long. This indicates something MORE than just some dudes who want to make some gold. By now they would have made enof for 10 epic mounts. This indicates gold selling. There is no other reason people would spend literally all day and night guarding and farming every devilsaur spot in un goro.

[ismeckye 7]

53 minutes ago, Charles said:

I don't see why anybody is taking up for these no life un'goro guys. I have been down there multiple times at 60 and can vouch that they have people from BOTH factions afk/stealthed out/on multiple accounts monitoring every devilsaur spawn.

I watched one hunter stand on an island one day in view of where a devilsaur spawns and for about an hour he just auto killed the 1 mob that spawned in his radius and then the rest of the time sat there.

I went by today and saw a lvl 60 rogue stealthed ona  tree branch on a devilsaur spawn afk, when I hit him he started moving.

I had a devilsaur spawn directly on top of me TWICE only to have both horde and alliance literally swarm me and take me out.

Not only is this bizzare behavior, but it has gone on way too long. This indicates something MORE than just some dudes who want to make some gold. By now they would have made enof for 10 epic mounts. This indicates gold selling. There is no other reason people would spend literally all day and night guarding and farming every devilsaur spot in un goro.

Do you know how much some of these guys invest goldwise into the game? Only ranking fully potted/flasked easily accumulates to 150g/hour for RANKING in BGs. Then take into consideration that you rank 15+ hours a day and you see how fast some need to make gold else they wouldnt have time left to rank.

 

4 hours ago, devilsaurPVEerBGwintrader said:

I got you

1) players should be banned for cross faction colluding in game which is incredibly obvious when it takes place and easily policed
2) devilsaurs should spawn at a random point on their pathing route and begin pathing immediately
3) timers should be dynamic and randomized

all of these changes would improve the social aspect of the game that the antisocial types in these threads love to rant about. Yes there are still ways to make less gold than there otherwise would be, sure, good point

I still dont agree with point 1). I stress one paragraph I wrote before to underline my opinion:

"People get triggered hard and start insulting because the bunch that wants "sheep griefing" and faction collaboration sanctioned are the same who made the game the pile of shit retail is today. You want a player driven problem sorted by GMs. Dont you think it's better for the game to have the two factions collaborate instead of having whack-a-mole and hope your internet connection is fast enough? Did you like to stand next to a shaman/mage/druid on questnodes trying to tag the named when you yourself were warrior/priest/WL? It's GOOD to have this collaboration on this server. It makes for a better gameplay and people who farmed to Rank 14 can actually put their PvP gear to good use instead of stomping some BGs and farming BRM/Dire Maul preBiS farmers. Now warriors and other group PvP classes actually have a shot to have fun outside of instanced PvP and play against other skilled players in the open for actual gain (gold). If anything it strengthens the hardcore scene as R12+ people and other hardcores just go raidlog if they dont have an incentive to dominate. I believe that farming Maraudon might still be more profitable for R14 hunters like Rottix than PvPing in the crater.

But because they can do other things (PvP) than dully killing the same mob over and over, it's such a big gathering point for many hardcores. And that's part of the problem for the casuals. There are so many hardcores in Un'goro that you cant compete anymore. 99% of the server pop isn't willing to run a guild, what makes you think they are willing to fight the "problem" by making opposing faction friends via the forums to fight the enemy guy by sheeping YOU? They simply cant be arsed (TBH I cant either, therefore I make 4 friends and farm Strat Live for living - pun intended - and sell orbs/shards/cloth/shit). I mean people in general not you personally as I know you arent afffected."

[Fladrif 14]

Here's how they exploit cross-faction communication to safely sell gold for real money without the need to farm them:

1) Create a monopoly over an item X by exploiting the game mechanic that prevents same-faction players from attacking you. For example, you can sheep your other faction allies to heal them... or you can safely spot a same faction rogue in stealth.

2) Set a fixed price for it (26g). By doing this, you actually create another currency. 

3) Sell gold for real money by trading item X to your customer and asking him to sell it on AH for 25g. This method prevents GMs from tracking: they can get you if you buy gold which comes from stolen accounts or  botting.  

4) By trading 4 items, you've sold 100 gold. And none will notice it. Safe goldselling. None risks a ban.

5) Pay someone with real money to secure your monopoly: you ask them to be ready to login&gank/(and exploit the  mechanics that prevents players from attacking same-faction) at different hours when they're power-leveling someone's else character. None should be able to influence the price of item X because it's the currency of this goldselling market. Average players can't compete with PAID pros  who earn dollars from playing.

6) Sell gold ( that you don't even have to farm ) w/o risks. 

That's why vanilla-wow monopoly is dangerous: better to turn Un'Goro into an arena-like zone than having those people exploiting the fact that players can't attack  same-faction players who cooperates with the opposite faction.

Please STOP this monopoly. 

If you really want players to solve the problem by themselves, turn Un'Goro into a giant arena where a player can attack anyone ( even same faction)

Edited March 12, 2017 by Fladrif

[ismeckye 7]

Just now, Fladrif said:

Here's how they exploit cross-faction communication to safely sell gold for real money without the need to farm them:

1) Create a monopoly over an item X by exploiting the game mechanic that prevents same-faction players from attacking you. For example, you can sheep your other faction allies to heal them... or you can safely spot a same faction rogue in stealth.

2) Set a fixed price for it (26g). By doing this, you actually create another currency. 

3) Sell gold for real money by trading item X to your customer and asking him to sell it on AH for 25g. This method prevents GMs from tracking: they can get you if you buy gold which comes from stolen accounts botting.  

4) By trading 4 items, you've sold 100 gold. And none will notice it. Safe goldselling. None risks a ban.

5) Pay someone with real money to secure your monopoly: you ask them to be ready to login&gank/(and exploit the  mechanics that prevents players from attacking same-faction) at different hours when they're power-leveling someone's else character. None should be able to influence the price of item X because it's the currency of this goldselling market. Average players can't compete with PAID pros  who earn dollars from playing.

6) Sell gold ( that you don't even have to farm ) w/o risks. 

That's why vanilla-wow monopoly is dangerous: better to turn Un'Goro into an arena-like zone than having those people exploiting the fact that players can't attack  same-faction players who cooperates with the opposite faction.

Please STOP this monopoly. 

If you really want players to solve the problem by themselves, turn Un'Goro into a giant arena where a player can attack anyone ( even same faction)

Dont you think that all the r14s and T2 people would still stick together and fuck over the competitiors? If it's arena like you'd even make it a point that the staff WANTS collaboration between factions as the arena chest skirmishes were the one area in the game where they undoubtedly didnt have a problem with the fcations collaborating. In an arenalike area for Un'goro the best people would just flock together and kick out the casuals again. Nothing would change.

[Fladrif 14]

6 minutes ago, ismeckye said:

(...) If it's arena like you'd even make it a point that the staff WANTS collaboration between factions as the arena chest skirmishes were the one area in the game where they undoubtedly didnt have a problem with the fcations collaborating. (...)

Cross-factions alliance is not perceived as a problem.

Game-mechanics exploit is a problem and goldselling is severely punished.

Un'Goro arena would solve those two, IMHO. 

[ismeckye 7]

Just now, Fladrif said:

Cross-factions alliance is not perceived as a problem.

Game-mechanics exploit is a problem and goldselling is severely punished.

Un'Goro arena would solve those two, IMHO. 

There wouldn't be cross-factions anymore but it wouldnt change anything. The tryhards but still defend their claims, still sell devilsaur for 550g. Why do you think it would severely punish gold selling? The same few would rack in all gold. There would just be more mages in the tryhards ranks to make sure all people who arent supposed to die keep being sheephealed.

[Morathe 5]

1 hour ago, Fladrif said:

Un'Goro arena would solve those two, IMHO

[Morathe 5]

1 hour ago, Fladrif said:

Un'Goro arena would solve those two, IMHO. 

And then u'd wonder why server drops in population and doesn't get new players cause its advertised as "custom fun server" to match the reality. 

Changing stuff into custom fixes is a Dark Valley I'm telling you!

Edited March 12, 2017 by Morathe

[Nosleep 4]

17 hours ago, ismeckye said:

Do you know what win trading is?

a) Both teams get into the match and one just rolls over, the other wins in 5mins

b) One team opens up a game, both teams check whether they got the same match name and one doenst go in to the BG. Now before you win the game, most times you didnt even see an enemy as it takes time for PuGs to fill up the spots the dodging premade just gave up.

Hey :)  

 

Yes i fully understand what normal win trading in bg's is, it is as you have explained... they trade wins with each other, by assisting (in this case allowing them to win without challenge) the other faction to win in a pvp setting.

What i am talking about is the principle behind why we say that trading is not ok.. the principle behind what they are doing is unfair, they are, by action or refusal to act, 'helping' the opposite faction to win in a pvp setting... and then returning that help or 'trading' it back to each other.

 

It is not the gains they reap that makes it cheating, or where they are doing it,  its the method they employ to win in a pvp setting thats not ok, regardles of where they do it or how much they gain.

 

example: if i win trade just 1 game per week, that would still be cheating. and so it should be.

17 hours ago, ismeckye said:

In both points you DONT PvP. You run across an empty field an bring flags from  A to B WITHOUT actually killing the opposing faction. So there is NO PvP involved.

I dont think thats a fair argument, PVP in bg's is still PVP even if 1 player or team refuses to act or even helps the other team. Its a PVP setting with PVP gains, HK'S honor etc.

 

I do understand what youre saying, but I feel because its the principle behind win trading thats not ok, rather than the gains or the place its used, that if that principle is found somewhere else then it warrants being looked at, and after careful examination, decided if a rules should be made or modified or just left alone...

Admins modify and change rules often to fit specific situations, so ''blizz like'' is not a valid argument either, you didnt make that 'blizz rules' argument, im just saying is all.

 

All I have said is I feel this specific situation with its PVP elements deserves being looked at, because i think its shares a principle with the reason we say normal bg win trading is not ok, regardless of the gains.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Nosleep

[Nosleep 4]

15 hours ago, Morathe said:

Nah im not angry because I got personal interest. I made enough so far and im not active there anymore. I'm angry because u're full of shit and represent mentality of a looser and a whiner. I learned trolling from your mom, she told me its a good bait for her retarded 16th son she kept caged in a basement thus far (good one right? har har). Fyi thre is no mafia... there is only CARTEL, get ur facts together if you talk about sense of your point (which lacks in every possible regard anyway O_o). 

P.S its funny to see you repeat I fail in every line :P self empowerment kicking in huh? 

mum jokes? dude thats the bottom of the barrel, even for trolls.

 

oh dear, and you think me saying you fail is just for self empowerment? no, its cos you really do fail.. even at trolling.. lol

 

haha the triggered u call me, is getting more and more ironic by the post

 

your meltdown into the sewers of troll tactics is funny! keep going!

Edited March 12, 2017 by Nosleep

[Nosleep 4]

''in game solution'' is NOT a valid argument for why something should be allowed or not allowed.

 

Many things with an in game solution are still not allowed.

 

Bots and the effects they have from 24h farming  have an in game solution: kill the bot and farm it every time it spawns and then lol.. send the bot an in game mail saying ''lol no soup for you''

- or take a small farm group and go to the bot's area and tag everything b4 it can. 2x in game solution - but bots are still against the rules

- killing / farming bots was a loved activity of mine in retail. hehe

 

Griefing situations often have in game solutions, but thats still against the rules. (often case by case)

 

Harassment often has an in game solution, a horrible one yes but it still has 1: they could gather friends and harass them back even more than they get harassed, but harassment is still against the rules.

 

''do it back to them'' is NOT a valid argument on its own.

 

even classic BG win trading has an in game solution:  you could team up and win trade more than them.. hell we could all just win trade and ranking would be based on who can win trade the most lol .. 

 

but ofc thats silly because its the principle behind these things that make them against the rules, not the idea they have no in game solution.... because they often do and are still not ok.

 

each case is looked at individually and then based on the principle or tactic being used, its decided if it should be allowed.. and 'in game solution' is NOT the rule that decides that.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Nosleep

[Morathe 5]

51 minutes ago, Nosleep said:

mum jokes? dude thats the bottom of the barrel, even for trolls.

oh dear, and you think me saying you fail is just for self empowerment? no, its cos you really do fail.. even at trolling.. lol

haha the triggered u call me, is getting more and more ironic by the post

your meltdown into the sewers of troll tactics is funny! keep going!

Oh it hurts, god please help this guy. Splendid. 
P.S I made peace with you being idiot beyond salvage so I'm taking you more as a comedian than anything else since some time already. 

[Nosleep 4]

1 minute ago, Morathe said:

Oh it hurts, god please help this guy. Splendid. 
P.S I made peace with you being idiot beyond salvage so I'm taking you more as a comedian than anything else since some time already. 

last ditch attempt of the exposed troll... ''im only joking'' or ''im not serious when i talk to you''

 

haha you now fail at back tracking too.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Nosleep

[Morathe 5]

But I'm serious... you ARE an idiot:P but also entertaining one so keep coming and responding:P 

Me and my guild take your shit and laugh over it on voice comm. Its hilarious how average mongo like you defend his twisted logic by referring to things that aren't even liked together while talking over and over about "principles" in a video game. There is no chivalrious code here that make principles carry over from one thing to another. But so far you've been immune to understand that there are NO principles that guide the ToU. ToU is made of ad hoc rules to maintain semi healthy and balanced game environment based on flaws of the system that has to be bound by those rules. Matter at hand does not fall into that category. Circumstances do but matter alone doesn't. Sleep it over before you gnaw back with empty eyes and lack of thought. 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Morathe

[Spanishboss 1]

boring

[Zak Preston 5]

Or maybe add 1% droprate of devilsaur leather to standard x-saurs in Un'goro?

[Daxtar 1]

4 hours ago, Zak Preston said:

Or maybe add 1% droprate of devilsaur leather to standard x-saurs in Un'goro?

PLEASE DO THIS, and my 25 sets, and 280 spare leather will sell for a fuckton ! Best suggestion ever, you must be very smart

[Fladrif 14]

 

22 hours ago, Morathe said:

And then u'd wonder why server drops in population and doesn't get new players cause its advertised as "custom fun server" to match the reality. 

Changing stuff into custom fixes is a Dark Valley I'm telling you!

Then, it seems that we can't solve the problem in-game.

None was able to do so, and GMs keep repeating "player's problem, player's solution"... but un'Goro mafia always win because they exploit the game mechanic that makes same-faction friendly-targets.

None EVER saw a player's solution. Consequence is that there's no such a thing. Potentially, we could counter goldseller by not buying gold... wouldn't be that a player's solution? Why it doesn't work? 

In the case of devilsaur's monopoly which hides a gold-market that cannot be spotted because the currency doesn't come from botting, even a GM solution would require an effort.

Either you remove the exploited mechanic... or GMs should be available to respond to and to investigate the single cases of those who denounce the abuse.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Fladrif

[Fladrif 14]

39 minutes ago, Daxtar said:

PLEASE DO THIS, and my 25 sets, and 280 spare leather will sell for a fuckton ! Best suggestion ever, you must be very smart

As it happens for every other trade good, when there are too many items on the market... price diminishes.

Except for the devilsaur monopoly. Why?

[BogyOne 2]

Topic is alive and maybe some good will come of it thanks to that.

I'm glad to see that you call the thing for what it is - cartel. I have to admit that I haven't thought about offline implications of that but you're 100% right here. Creating bottlenecks and ridiculous prices was what was keeping the gold trading in WoW early days going as well.

Flood of insults you get shows that you hit the soft spot here, trying to bully you into submission is as childish as it is effective so keep it up. Goal here is for server owners to evaluate the situation and make a stand - either tolerate this organized action or adapt TOU appropriately.