Inflation

[Hurricane2 2]

10 hours ago, mytchi3 said:

Its been adjusted now yay!

 

4 hours ago, sreaver said:

Going the same path as retail went, and give in to whiners, yay!

They asked for feedback on the changes so I'm giving it.  That was indeed a lame choice to give into the whiners.

[Haestingas 30]

Awesome change, stoked to be able to afford consuming without farming 6h+ a week.

[Cishop 1]

2 hours ago, Haestingas said:

Awesome change, stoked to be able to afford consuming without farming 6h+ a week.

Finally i can look forward  to trying to find herb nodes again instead of running around for 2 hours to get only 3 dreamfoil, or do av during  weekend and trying to get to the nodes before everyone else.

Actually,  if they do perform this,change, could they take out the AV nodes to encourage the focus on pvp? (Yes i know about blizzlike bullshit, but running after a black lotus spawn every game to beat the alliance isn't PVP.)

[quasexort 4]

10 hours ago, sreaver said:

I guess people didn't do world/server firsts either because there were no WoWprogress? C'mon, any vanilla raider would know that people did compete in speed runs back then, it's just that most of the old breed didn't give a crap about stuff like that.

 

WoWprogress wasn't even needed since you could just screenshot your kill and that's what pretty much everyone did on the bnet forums.  How are guilds going to prove clear speed times though?  They realistically couldn't and that's why no one really went try hard on farmed content.  Like I said if realmplayers existed 12 years ago all the "hardcore" guilds would be doing exactly what a lot of guilds on Elysium/Anathema do which is go full try hard to get the fastest clear speed.

You can't honestly tell me that something like realmplayers wouldn't have made a difference in how "competitive" raiders approached the game back then.  Probably if it existed flask prices would have been a lot more expensive on retail vanilla but since there was no realmplayers people didn't bother to full consume on farm status content. 

The guild I was in only used full consumes/world buffs on Loatheb and KT because we didn't care about trying to minmax everything else since it didn't really matter.  The old blizzlike experience where players didn't care about full consuming is gone forever.

[Khree 0]

On 4/6/2017 at 4:55 AM, Justme said:

You're the casual if you can't bring your A-game.

If you wanna be #1 you better come up with a way to be #1. Giving everyone free pots is not gonna make you toptier.

Your bread example is dumb. Not everyone needs pots for raids. Only the toptier raiders do. If you're not able to get the pots then you're not a toptier raider.

In your example I wouldn't marry someone that can't afford bread when looking for a top quality wife. It's her responsability to get her shit sorted. If she can't then she's free to marry someone that doesn't mind marrying a starving lady (read: join a more casual guild if you can't get the pots)

 

couldnot care less what you herbalists and some scammers say here , and you can keep your wisdom for yourself

the only thing that matters is to bring herb price way down so ppl can start using them properly which is neccesary for vanilla progress at AQ, naxx and is also good for BWL and MC speed runs

some lets say "not smart ppl" are saying increasing herb spown rate wont reduce the price, well ,i can assure you it will and you watch!

these herbs are not here so the gold hungry ppl can make more money. these herbs are supposed to help raiding guilds with their effort

 

[Undertanker 88]

1 hour ago, Khree said:

the only thing that matters is to bring herb price way down so ppl can start ...

Playing the game of Vanilla instead of farmville.

Just speaking for myself here, but I raid for epics/great gear so I can play other aspects of the game more enjoyably (ie wrecking face).  I really enjoy 5 mans though I need no gear from them.    I like participating in world PVP, and the occasional battleground.  I like tanking for AV groups though I need no rep.

I am unable to participate in any of these parts of end-game due to the time investment ratio to raiding being way off the scales at the moment. I only do some jed/rend runs for NR tank helm and back to farming.   I farm a lot, and it is apart of Vanilla; I am not saying it shouldn't be.  It is just way off in terms of what the "Vanilla" grind was for obtaining what you need.

Many people commenting on this thread are focused on this being a speed clear thing or, it isn't needed for farmed content.    The issue isn't with what is farmed.   AQ + require more from everybody.  On top of having more consumable-counter related mechanics, more of your available playing time is funneled into the additional content.  This gives increases the consumable consumption rate and lowers available farm time, which then the current demand > supply hurts more.

You don't need 9k+ population for the server to feel alive.  You need resources to be at a reasonable level to get people out of the fields they farm in, as often as they are in them now.   When the obligation to farm 100% of the time is no longer there, then you'll see more participation from a majority of active players within 5/10 mans, battle grounds, holding down a portion of a  zone against the opposite faction, contributing more to war effort.

Remember you see 2x the population of a full vanilla realm right?  But it's spanned across 3 player bases (NA/EU/OC) which in Vanilla were on different servers. So then you think okay 6x the active daily population, 6x the resources right?  Well no.  That alone isn't enough.  Servers had 3-5 guilds per faction raiding beyond BWL. We got 111 guilds that clear BWL.  Also being as there is never the low pop portions of a day, there is never empty farming zones/areas for early birds and those farming throughout the night here and there.   Resource availability would ideally need to be x10 of what was available in 2005/06 to counter the current Anathema player-base.  We'll see the amount of guilds clearing BWL when Elysium gets to that point.

For those who feel uncertain about changes like these, you have to ask yourself what the Mission of the project is.   If it is to bring back and emulate as close as possible what a few of us here were lucky enough to live out 12 years ago, then this change is in line with their mission.

The Vanilla emulation isn't just boss mechanics, talent trees, gear itemization.  It extends to accurately emulating of the out of raid time investments needed to be successful yet still have enough time to enjoy other facets of the game besides raiding.

[Mahtan 15]

I did the dungeonset quest back in the days and bought 2 flasks of the titans for around 30 gold per flask and gave them to the tanks for Lord Valthalakk.

I have always been a casual and still it was no problem to just get some flasks for a reasonable price on that shitty rp-pvp realm.

It is a difference that the strength of flasks is common knowledge now and e-penismeters amplify that difference to the past. I am not entirely sure but I guess the situation on Elysium/Anathema was out of control and a fix is reasonable.

But I also hope that the paradigm of consumeables and raidings shifts and that people calm down regarding dps numbers and time counters. Not every single person who enters a raid must follow the philosophy of elitist jerks.

[mytchi3 1]

29 minutes ago, Mahtan said:

Not every single person who enters a raid must follow the philosophy of elitist jerks.

Not that they must they just do. 

[TTL 6]

On 4/5/2017 at 6:43 PM, Khree said:

only casual  who doesnot play top tier can say that.

its like if you said germans dont print more money just stop buying bread when they were allready dieing of hunger

Seriously the herb changes will have little effect on Flask. Black Lotus is one per zone (4 diff zones).... the only way to reduce Black Lotus profit margin is to remove the BoP, or make 2-4 spawn in each zone due to the overall population instead of just 1 with a shorter spawn time.

All the herb change will do is make basic elixirs cheaper like Mongoose, those who farm Black Lotus well will still be making 75g profit a flask on Elysium for example even after change since most flask makers are smart enough to know they control prices due to 1) BoP lotus, 2) Flask recipe needed = Very few can make.

[Undertanker 88]

15 minutes ago, TTL said:

Seriously the herb changes will have little effect on Flask. Black Lotus is one per zone (4 diff zones).... the only way to reduce Black Lotus profit margin is to remove the BoP, or make 2-4 spawn in each zone due to the overall population instead of just 1 with a shorter spawn time.

All the herb change will do is make basic elixirs cheaper like Mongoose, those who farm Black Lotus well will still be making 75g profit a flask on Elysium for example even after change since most flask makers are smart enough to know they control prices due to 1) BoP lotus, 2) Flask recipe needed = Very few can make.

What you are stating is Elysium Specific, which you guys won't have content which needs flask for what.... at least 1.25 years?  IT will change to non-soulbound on the 1.7 ZG patch.   Elysium server will get many more flask recipe drops.  Typically guilds do guild pre-raid UBRS runs and give the flask to a guild alch, or sell Molten Core Mats and buy the flask pattern with guild bank money (what we did way back when).  

In regards to drop rates, pre-Nost shutdown they had the black lotus pop x8 more often ie: 15 minutes compared to 2 hours.  This was when we had a concurrent pop of 12k people all times of the day.  4 times a vanilla pop with x3 the time zones played on same server.  12 x the amount of people.

Anybody flasking on Elysium is for speed run only unless you are a new guild with tanks with no FR and want to help get the first few kills down with buffing 2 tanks until you get more mats for Dark Iron sets.

1 hour ago, Mahtan said:

Not every single person who enters a raid must follow the philosophy of elitist jerks.

Do understand that some of us have been playing Vanilla servers for many years and the majority of that is doing 2 40 man raids.  Speed clears and flexing epeens is a form of keeping the motivation up by adding competition amongst peers while RNGesus has your way with you on a weekly basis.   I personally think the 40 man speed clear has lost some outsider interest.  Would be cool to see some speed clear 30 man / 20 Man MC videos IMO, give something new to do. These 40 man speedrunners doing 2 20 man runs (double the chances at Bindings, Choker/Band of Accuria, and more Caut ring/Regrowth Shoulders)

It does give a fresh spin on things, and takes a majority of your team interested in do so.  Our team doesn't do speed running, but I do understand why others do.

1 hour ago, Mahtan said:

I did the dungeonset quest back in the days and bought 2 flasks of the titans for around 30 gold per flask and gave them to the tanks for Lord Valthalakk.

I have always been a casual and still it was no problem to just get some flasks for a reasonable price on that shitty rp-pvp realm.

Typically RP realms were low to medium populations at best, my server was 750+ queue weeknights up until 1.12.2, flask topped out at around 56g at the end.  So I'm sure demand was greater as well some more inflation due to a higher population.   High turnover rate on a private server helps slow inflation by a lot.  Would love to know the amount of gold that is currently setting on inactive accounts > 1 month w/o a logon.  Also imagine the amount of gold that got left behind during the Anathema toon transfer from Nost.

[sreaver 0]

It's easy to see and understand how WoW (and many many other games) got ruined. Even on a private server, dedicated to the old "hard" experience, you get the 'make it easier, I dont want to do so much but still want the reward' -crowd. It's the exact same road that led to welfare epics and LFR. If you don't have the motivation, move on or adjust your expectations, but don't whine to make the game suit your lack of motivation, because we all know where that leads.

 

18 hours ago, quasexort said:

The guild I was in only used full consumes/world buffs on Loatheb and KT because we didn't care about trying to minmax everything else since it didn't really matter.  The old blizzlike experience where players didn't care about full consuming is gone forever.

No it's not, there are still old school gamers, even in this very thread, smiling at little brothers for whining about the game being too demanding. These people went for the rank 14 when you couldn't even use the weapons or gear without staying at your pvp rank.

 

P.S Why would you use full consumables and world buffs on Loatheb? This is a very good example of how you fellas need to make better strategies, instead of chugging flasks and elixirs to make the fight easier than it was tuned for, never mind the 1.12 client and high FPS players are enjoying now while going to AQ.

[Mahtan 15]

I share your desire to punish whiners and people who demand flasks and high level consumeables as their "right". I also share your opinion that raiding should not mean that you always use all consumeables. Even speed runs should be something special and not mandatory for everyone as a goal to achieve. All that increases the problem of elixir/flask/buff-food even more.

But...

Spawning rates were just too low for the population. Anathema/Elysium still have a very high population. Just think about this example: On my shitty German retail realms, you see 20-50 people online at 04:00 in the night (and 2000-3000 during the evening). On Anathema/Elysium you ALWAYS have hundreds of people online, including people who farm herb nodes. There are so many other factors that are different and lead to the decision of the Elysium staff and ultimately, I think it is a good decision. I hope it makes the experience of people on these servers more enjoyable. Worst case, they could just revert the change at some point if needed, or make further adjustments.

Some custom changes are just the way they are and maybe for the better. For example the international community is a huge advantage in my opinion. Playing on retail today is kind of boring, regardless of my German or a British realm (which I tried, too)... And if higher herb node spawn rates are necessary, well, then I am ok with that ;)

I truly think this is not a "the staff listens to the cry babies"-thing. They just improve the game experience for everyone...

Edited April 11, 2017 by Mahtan

[quasexort 4]

1 hour ago, sreaver said:

No it's not, there are still old school gamers, even in this very thread, smiling at little brothers for whining about the game being too demanding. These people went for the rank 14 when you couldn't even use the weapons or gear without staying at your pvp rank.

 

What are you trying to argue? Do you think flasks/world buffs should be removed from the game since they are not needed or do you just want the elite "hardcore" gamers to have access to these consumes and the "casuals" to be gated from them?  I'm really confused.  If you personally want the game to be harder than by all means you can just not use consumes for you and your guild, hell you can even raid in greens to make it even harder.  I don't see how it makes a difference what other guilds do or if the herb prices go down if you truly believe they are not needed and therefore refuse to use them.

Now if you just want to gate these consumes then it isn't really blizzlike.  Like i said earlier the prices of herbs/consumes was much lower on retail vanilla than on anathema even if you consider inflation.  15-20g for a black lotus during Naxx progression was super affordable especially considering you could just grind raw gold (ie DM-E/Mara/etc).  I remember I had to flask for KT so I bought a flask of titans from the AH for like 50g, it wasn't so big investment to be able to afford these flasks.

1 hour ago, sreaver said:

P.S Why would you use full consumables and world buffs on Loatheb? This is a very good example of how you fellas need to make better strategies, instead of chugging flasks and elixirs to make the fight easier than it was tuned for, never mind the 1.12 client and high FPS players are enjoying now while going to AQ.

Honestly I didn't make the strats, I was only like 12 years old back during retail vanilla.  I'm guessing we used full buffs on Loatheb to avoid wiping because our damage may have not been high enough. We definitely didn't have an ideal raid comp but most vanilla guilds didn't.  It was so long ago, maybe we could have killed it just fine without all the consumes/buffs but why risk it?  At that point in the game you just go all out because there's no use saving the world buffs/consumes since it's literally the last raid content left before TBC comes out so we just wanted to give it out all and try to finish it.

[Spicynoodle 0]

Got to love people crapping on other people due to them actually trying. A+ mentalities

[Hurricane2 2]

54 minutes ago, quasexort said:

What are you trying to argue? Do you think flasks/world buffs should be removed from the game since they are not needed or do you just want the elite "hardcore" gamers to have access to these consumes and the "casuals" to be gated from them?  I'm really confused.

Casuals gate themselves and that's how it should work.  The problem is there are more casuals than hardcores and their volume of complaining is much higher and results in things being toned down or nerfed.  Casuals want what hardcore players have without putting in the same effort.  

[Spicynoodle 0]

Just now, Hurricane2 said:

Casuals gate themselves and that's how it should work.  The problem is there are more casuals than hardcores and their volume of complaining is much higher and results in things being toned down or nerfed.  Casuals want what hardcore players have without putting in the same effort.  

Exactly. Its like wanting an extra handicap spot in the parking lot until the entire place is full of them, and in turn, no one else can park anymore but the handicapped people. 

[quasexort 4]

I'm sorry I just don't see how the game caters to casuals if the black lotus price were to drop from 150g to 70g due to the increase in spawn rate.  Or if the dreamfoil/plaugebloom/gromsblood drops from 50g a stack to 30g a stack.  I guess if this happens all the casuals will be getting the "hardcore" experience.

It's funny because I probably fit on the hardcore side of the spectrum (100+ black lotus banked).  Yet I come on these forums and there's people upset because some causal gamer might actually use consumes for raids.  I really don't care if some "casual" guild can all the sudden flask their entire raid (they probably still can't because let's face it 70g per lotus is still not affordable to most casuals).

Whatever, seems no matter what the staff does people will find ways to complain about it.

[mytchi3 1]

13 hours ago, Hurricane2 said:

Casuals gate themselves and that's how it should work.  The problem is there are more casuals than hardcores and their volume of complaining is much higher and results in things being toned down or nerfed.  Casuals want what hardcore players have without putting in the same effort.  

You twat. If you are so hardcore raid naked without buffs. That will make it surely hardcore experience for you.

[Justme 9]

2 hours ago, mytchi3 said:

You twat. If you are so hardcore raid naked without buffs. That will make it surely hardcore experience for you.

Hardcore raiders want to get the maximum out of their character. Not the minimum.

Casual players want that aswell, but they usually can't meet the demands. And that's why hardcore players have it easier finding a guild.

[Mahtan 15]

Hardcore gaming on an emulation? Is that even possible?

Bosses sometimes bug and don't use their skills often enough (or at all... happened just last MC at Lucifron -.-).

The game offers nothing for pioneers (which is one important aspect of playing hardcore in a MMORPG), everything is well known for over ten years (which is an absurdly long time frame in the age of internet).

and so on... Do you really think it is worth to divide the Elysium project into hardcore players and casuals? I think that is disgusting. And even if we work with these terms... By todays standards, self-declared hardcoreplayers are just raidloggers most of time and demand new content like they are paying customers. Pathetic!

[Kazuma 11]

This server is having issues because certain players dont play this game as a game but as a job.

[csant 3]

People dont realize that very few people have the required 10+ hours a day. They use to have 10+ years ago, because you had no life. lol 

Now ur probably married with kids and work. Log'n on for 3+ hours is probably the norm now. =) 

For myself I am playing here for the pvp. Love world pvp, love ganking, being ganked and love bgs. I have zero interest in raiding since I have no time to commit like I did 10 years ago. That and I still nightmares from Rags laughing at me cuz he won't drop perditions. I will NEVER go back into MC. lol 

[Justme 9]

2 minutes ago, csant said:

People dont realize that very few people have the required 10+ hours a day. They use to have 10+ years ago, because you had no life. lol 

Now ur probably married with kids and work. Log'n on for 3+ hours is probably the norm now. =) 

For myself I am playing here for the pvp. Love world pvp, love ganking, being ganked and love bgs. I have zero interest in raiding since I have no time to commit like I did 10 years ago. That and I still nightmares from Rags laughing at me cuz he won't drop perditions. I will NEVER go back into MC. lol 

3 HOURS LMFAO

[Undertanker 88]

It was taking 6-7 hours longer to farm gold to afford consumables than it did 11 years ago that you could farm in 1 hour back then.

This is a fact.    A change to accommodate was needed.  That does not mean casuals are being catered to.

They increased spawn rates of mobs, is this not the same thing?  Or were casuals being catered to again?

The Admin/Leadership team have held true of emulating a Vanilla experience the best they can and are always improving upon this.

1x leveling rates, progressive content, accurate PVP-Ranking system.   

As long as the goal is to "emulate" the time investments outside of raiding to be a successful end-game raider, this change too is only to more accurately represent the Vanilla feel while maintaining a larger population.

 

[Hellomane 0]

37 minutes ago, Undertanker said:

It was taking 6-7 hours longer to farm gold to afford consumables than it did 11 years ago that you could farm in 1 hour back then.

This is a fact.    A change to accommodate was needed.  That does not mean casuals are being catered to.

They increased spawn rates of mobs, is this not the same thing?  Or were casuals being catered to again?

The Admin/Leadership team have held true of emulating a Vanilla experience the best they can and are always improving upon this.

1x leveling rates, progressive content, accurate PVP-Ranking system.   

As long as the goal is to "emulate" the time investments outside of raiding to be a successful end-game raider, this change too is only to more accurately represent the Vanilla feel while maintaining a larger population.

 

Your arguments for this QOL change are bad, and you're using bogus numbers to back it up. The dynamic spawn rate was made to kick in once pop succeeded blizzlike levels, and it worked fairly well. This new, large increase of spawn rates is bordering on funserver levels. Everyone who actually tried farming today can see that.