State of Elysium — Emergency Maintenance

[wowwind 0]

4 minutes ago, Dollywog said:

The project is now open source, Elysium devs appear to be welcoming outside help with each upcoming development update.  I'm sure there are plenty of people who could volunteer to read through logs to determine the incorrect loot distributed during this 184 seconds if it meant saving thousands of players up to 7 hours of time each (and in many cases more if an insanely rare item had dropped for you which is worth more than "7 hours")  

I agree with you that the devs alone shouldn't have to give up their time to sort this all out the hard way, but I think the decision made is rash.  They've even said they have identified 54 players who have benefitted from the exploit, and they know the timeframe the mobs were bugged - I think a better explanation of why this couldn't be resolved involving these players alone is warranted.  

Dont mate, you cant reason with him. 

[oloun 0]

10 minutes ago, Hamblin said:

It's true though. We would have to go back into the logs and examine every single player that could have been affected by this. And this is something that all GM's do not even have access to, so only a portion of the GM team would be able to work on this. The server would definitely need to be down while the staff went over everyone's data and manually adjusting each player. A rollback isn't a perfect solution, but in this case, it is the best solution we have. 

go and do that.and when you are ready we will come back and play...in a week? in a month?its cool

[DeconstruKt 0]

1 minute ago, wowwind said:

Dont mate, you cant reason with him. 

More like can't reason with people like you.

a forum GM just said the same thing I said, you totally ignored that though.

You're wrong, and whining over a private server, get over it.

[wowwind 0]

1 minute ago, DeconstruKt said:

More like can't reason with people like you.

a forum GM just said the same thing I said, you totally ignored that though.

You're wrong, and whining over a private server, get over it.

Havent been whining mate. Not at all. Actually i like this server. But you never read what i wrote i figure :) 


Im not wrong, since im not in an debate here. - Its been said loud and clear, It could be done differently, but time wasn't available. - I voiced that a rollback that size, would come at great risk. Thats what im stating. 

In to what your response is "Quit whining" - Which has been more constructive? 

Did you get that?

[DeconstruKt 0]

2 minutes ago, wowwind said:

Havent been whining mate. Not at all. Actually i like this server. But you never read what i wrote i figure :) 


Im not wrong, since im not in an debate here. - Its been said loud and clear, It could be done differently, but time wasn't available. - I voiced that a rollback that size, would come at great risk. Thats what im stating. 

In to what your response is "Quit whining" - Which has been more constructive? 

Did you get that?

All i see is more whining with 0 points to be made.

It's all said and done, the roll back went through, go play.

You're adding nothing constructive at this point.

Did you get that?

[Hamblin 0]

1 minute ago, wowwind said:

Havent been whining mate. Not at all. Actually i like this server. But you never read what i wrote i figure :) 


Im not wrong, since im not in an debate here. - Its been said loud and clear, It could be done differently, but time wasn't available. - I voiced that a rollback that size, would come at great risk. Thats what im stating. 

In to what your response is "Quit whining" - Which has been more constructive? 

Did you get that?

Yes, it could have been done differently, but the amount of time involved in that would have been much greater, and had much more criticism. The plain and simple fact is when a bug like this occurs, it is gamebreaking for many, many players. We chose the route that will give players the lowest amount of downtime. 

[DeconstruKt 0]

Just now, Hamblin said:

Yes, it could have been done differently, but the amount of time involved in that would have been much greater, and had much more criticism. The plain and simple fact is when a bug like this occurs, it is gamebreaking for many, many players. We chose the route that will give players the lowest amount of downtime. 

Which is what many of us have told him already.

but he continues to complain about "time" ignoring the amount of time the GMs would need, then accused me of having a narrow perspective, you can't make that irony up.

 

Some people, you just can't reason with em.

[wowwind 0]

1 minute ago, DeconstruKt said:

All i see is more whining with 0 points to be made.

It's all said and done, the roll back went through, go play.

You're adding nothing constructive at this point.

Did you get that?

All i see is you whining about people having other oponions than yours. You must be a lovely person. 

 

2 minutes ago, Hamblin said:

Yes, it could have been done differently, but the amount of time involved in that would have been much greater, and had much more criticism. The plain and simple fact is when a bug like this occurs, it is gamebreaking for many, many players. We chose the route that will give players the lowest amount of downtime. 

Yep its a sad situation indeed. - 

[Gnog 1]

Thank you, devs. Anyone who's experienced in MMOs knows that an event like this, if not corrected quickly and convincingly, can lead to a loss of faith in the integrity of the game. The rollback, which ensures complete correction and involves no discretion, keeps the faith and is obviously the right decision. 

[DeconstruKt 0]

2 minutes ago, wowwind said:

All i see is you whining about people having other oponions than yours. You must be a lovely person. 

The irony is insane.

You attacked my opinion first because I mentioned the GMs did not have time, but 7 hours was easy to make up.

 

[StompingBox 0]

People should stop complaining as much. Elysium is a free service and they restored the servers very quickly. Be thankful

[wowwind 0]

Just now, DeconstruKt said:

The irony is insane.

You attacked my opinion first because I mentioned the GMs did not have time, but 7 hours was easy to make up.

 

Yet you do still not belive me that some people dont have 7 hours of gametime available at hand all the time? 

The absurd statement you made, made me laugh. 

Im sad i cant play like you anymore. Its a privilige, remember to enjoy it. 

[Hurricane2 2]

3 minutes ago, wowwind said:

Yet you do still not belive me that some people dont have 7 hours of gametime available at hand all the time? 

The absurd statement you made, made me laugh. 

Im sad i cant play like you anymore. Its a privilige, remember to enjoy it. 

We don't believe you because saying not being able to make up for 7 hours of lost game time is insane.

[wowwind 0]

Just now, Hurricane2 said:

We don't believe you because saying not being able to make up for 7 hours of lost game time is insane.

I think the word used was "easily" :) 

[Dollywog 0]

16 minutes ago, Hamblin said:

It's true though. We would have to go back into the logs and examine every single player that could have been affected by this. And this is something that all GM's do not even have access to, so only a portion of the GM team would be able to work on this. The server would definitely need to be down while the staff went over everyone's data and manually adjusting each player. A rollback isn't a perfect solution, but in this case, it is the best solution we have.

Thank you to Hamblin for clarifying this was an option.  I don't know exactly what kind of work this entails but I would welcome criticism of my hypothetical scenario:
Lets say 5-6k were playing during this 3 minutes.  Ignore all the people sitting outside Ironforge/Orgrimmar Auction House roleplaying, and all capital cities in general (feels like everyone tbh).  Ignore all the players in battlegrounds.  Ignore all the players who weren't in the location of the affected mobs (but if it was all mobs that leaves like 1-2k players left or maybe a lot less)

So now you've got max 2k logs you have to go through, split it up between a dozen willing staff and thats 100-200 logs each.  Don't you just scroll to the time slot 18:39-42 and check for any crazy dealings? If so, ban player, if not move on.  This could take a dedicated team a couple hours give or take, but damn would you have been saints for doing it.

All I know is you identified 54 players, which already suggests you kind of know the culprits already, so why was this done?  I might have no idea what I'm talking about and I genuinely would welcome anyone to explain what I'm missing here.

 

[wowwind 0]

Just now, Toradh said:

Privilege*

 

Also you are one stuck up asshole. 

For not having that much freetime? Enlighten me mate. 

English is my 4th language so im not the best in the matter. But again, according to tradition you correcting me, makes you a stuck up asshole - Correct? no? :)

[Hurricane2 2]

4 minutes ago, wowwind said:

I think the word used was "easily" :) 

7 hours is 7 hours.  It doesn't matter if you're hardcore or casual it takes the same amount of time to make up for it.  

[Hamblin 0]

3 minutes ago, Dollywog said:

Thank you to Hamblin for clarifying this was an option.  I don't know exactly what kind of work this entails but I would welcome criticism of my hypothetical scenario:
Lets say 5-6k were playing during this 3 minutes.  Ignore all the people sitting outside Ironforge/Orgrimmar Auction House roleplaying, and all capital cities in general (feels like everyone tbh).  Ignore all the players in battlegrounds.  Ignore all the players who weren't in the location of the affected mobs (but if it was all mobs that leaves like 1-2k players left or maybe a lot less)

So now you've got max 2k logs you have to go through, split it up between a dozen willing staff and thats 100-200 logs each.  Don't you just scroll to the time slot 18:39-42 and check for any crazy dealings? If so, ban player, if not move on.  This could take a dedicated team a couple hours give or take, but damn would you have been saints for doing it.

All I know is you identified 54 players, which already suggests you kind of know the culprits already, so why was this done?  I might have no idea what I'm talking about and I genuinely would welcome anyone to explain what I'm missing here.

 

Okay, so the issue with your hypothetical scenario is access to logs. The issue is not staff willing to dig through logs, it is the amount of staff that have access to those logs. 

[Dollywog 0]

Just now, Hurricane2 said:

7 hours is 7 hours. It doesn't matter if you're hardcore or casual it takes the same amount of time to make up for it.

Not really Hurricane, this is an incredibly small-minded view in an RNG loot game like vanilla WoW. You can log on to run an instance for say that Cadaverous Armor everyday after work for the last 3 weeks with no luck.  But if that item dropped today and you lost it then it certainly feels a lot worse than "7 hours is 7 hours" - it could mean 3 more weeks of grinding Scholomance!

[wowwind 0]

1 minute ago, Toradh said:

For complaining on a free server and 

 

That.. (See that people? FOUR languages)

No.

Four is good? Or what? ;) 

Besides i aint complaing about the server mate.

Im complaning about the people who act likes its nothing and some people have had great losses. Why ridicule and belittle those? Meh

 

[Gnog 1]

You also then have to develop audit procedures and hope that there was no human error made in reviewing tens or hundreds of thousands of data entries. Then you have to deal with the rumors about those three guys who were missed in the audit. Human error or corruption? Then you have to deal with the people who were wrongly identified as having exploited something. Have fun with all of that. 

[Dollywog 0]

7 minutes ago, Gnog said:

You also then have to develop audit procedures and hope that there was no human error made in reviewing tens or hundreds of thousands of data entries. Then you have to deal with the rumors about those three guys who were missed in the audit. Human error or corruption? Then you have to deal with the people who were wrongly identified as having exploited something. Have fun with all of that.

Yeh, you've definitely got a point that it opens up a whole lot of problems in itself by trying to manually correct the situation I can appreciate that.

[Hurricane2 2]

14 minutes ago, Dollywog said:

Not really Hurricane, this is an incredibly small-minded view in an RNG loot game like vanilla WoW. You can log on to run an instance for say that Cadaverous Armor everyday after work for the last 3 weeks with no luck.  But if that item dropped today and you lost it then it certainly feels a lot worse than "7 hours is 7 hours" - it could mean 3 more weeks of grinding Scholomance!

I like to call what ifs counter factual.  They are good for hypothetical discussions but since they did not actually occur there is only so much merit that can be given to those types of situations.  The complete reverse could happen in your example.

[wowwind 0]

2 minutes ago, Hurricane2 said:

I like to call what ifs counter factual.  They are good for hypothetical discussions but since they did not actually occur there is only so much merit that can be given to those types of situations.  The complete reverse could happen in your example.

You just did that with your 7 Hours (Truth) against the 4 days (Fiction) 


Its getting funnay :D

[Hurricane2 2]

16 minutes ago, wowwind said:

You just did that with your 7 Hours (Truth) against the 4 days (Fiction) 


Its getting funnay :D

That's not my post.  I was referring to comparison some one else made that said 4 days of server down time would be better than a 7 hour roll back.