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Why Nostalrius PvE was flourishing and Darrowshire isn't/won't

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Let me tell you the story why I started on Nostalrius PvE back in November 2015: Nostalrius PvP was full, Nostalrius PvP already was on Patch 1.7, Nostalrius PvP was laggy.

Almost every player I play with atm can tell you something similar, some even started new on Nostalrius PvE because of the mentioned reasons. Up to this day I only know a few players who started on Nostalrius PvE because it was a PvE-Server. It felt awesome to play on a server who was - back in the day - constantly growing. Because a lot of the new players started on Nostalrius PvE all the time - even if they were interested in PvP activities. But these days are long gone. Most of the new players start on Elysium - and why shouldn't they. There is nothing to experience but downfall, empty (horde) zones - and if a player does not want to farm Molten Core for half a year he can start on Anathema right away. Ganking in STV isn't that much of a problem there anymore as well.

Why is this relevant? Because my beloved server is slowly dying. I always looked down on the players that spammed world chat with "ded server" because I thought it was imbecility. Sunday peaks at 4000 players felt pretty full after they opened Zeth'Kur. Month Later Sunday peaks at 2500 still feel full, but only for 2-3h a week. Even after ID reset, the server is struggling to get to 2000 players online - trend falling. Guilds are falling apart (<Reformed> recently on horde side), level 60 battlegrounds aren't open at prime time on some days, both sides are struggling to get enough players into the pvp-pool to get a bracket 1 (13000rp) spot and people already start leveling on Elysium. The faction imbalance is doing its part on top of that. And Gummy's TBC could be the finishing blow.

I know people will write everything is fine, that it's only the summer and probably believe this themselves. After all there are still six guilds on horde side that kill Nefarian every ID which is way more than on a retail server back in the day. But I still think the team should really think about the possibility of Darrowshire -> Anathema in the near future because at the end of the day a divided community is an unnecessary weak community and the hardware can support bigger amounts of players nowadays / people want bigger population. If they do it now the time frame to gear up in AQ for Naxxramas is still big enough. But that time frame will close in the coming months.

- A concerned player and a true believer in the Elysium Project

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my personal opinion is the expectations of everyone. In order to join a guild a lot require you to go to a site and apply. It's a game not a job but I understand it helps weed out a bit of heat of the moment players.

another thing is raiding requirements. I've raided for a long time and I'm telling you now unless you do naxx its pretty much lfr quality in retail(half doing whatever half pulling the weight). People are just so picky but complain about not filling slots?

Another thing is player attitude. I was told to kill myself and go play retail because I like new models. It's funny because I bet any money these vanilla diehards use the AH(that is cross faction(was not until MoP?WoD?)) or certain addons/mods. I could go farther and say any of the newer chat services like discord. I like vanilla and retail but to scold anyone that is not go vanilla or go home or doesn't have a hateful passion for retail is pushing a lot of players away. .I've made it to 12 so far grouping only once. The world feels dead to me. Bit disappointed.

A lot of players were probably curious about all the hype for classic, played here and saw what it was like and left. Don't get me wrong, vanilla was great in terms of RPG elements(spells use certain items/class quest/trainers). But time does not equal skill or "hard". Vanilla was not hard, it was "play this, do this, auto attack, grind mobs for hours here". But I still love it.

that's why I think the server is losing so many players. Please don't tickle me.

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5 hours ago, Ticklish Bunny said:

my personal opinion is the expectations of everyone. In order to join a guild a lot require you to go to a site and apply. It's a game not a job but I understand it helps weed out a bit of heat of the moment players.

another thing is raiding requirements. I've raided for a long time and I'm telling you now unless you do naxx its pretty much lfr quality in retail(half doing whatever half pulling the weight). People are just so picky but complain about not filling slots?

Another thing is player attitude. I was told to kill myself and go play retail because I like new models. It's funny because I bet any money these vanilla diehards use the AH(that is cross faction(was not until MoP?WoD?)) or certain addons/mods. I could go farther and say any of the newer chat services like discord. I like vanilla and retail but to scold anyone that is not go vanilla or go home or doesn't have a hateful passion for retail is pushing a lot of players away. .I've made it to 12 so far grouping only once. The world feels dead to me. Bit disappointed.

A lot of players were probably curious about all the hype for classic, played here and saw what it was like and left. Don't get me wrong, vanilla was great in terms of RPG elements(spells use certain items/class quest/trainers). But time does not equal skill or "hard". Vanilla was not hard, it was "play this, do this, auto attack, grind mobs for hours here". But I still love it.

that's why I think the server is losing so many players. Please don't tickle me.

Just gonna tickle you a little

Applications has been done since forever, it's still being done on retail wow, it's a great way not only to weed out bad seeds, but also to see if personallities match with the atmosphere of a guild.

Raiding requirements are one thing, whats the thing now is speedclears, and thats why you see requirements, noone really care who killed a boss first after a while, it's mostly speedclears that show one guilds skill to another and thats why at least the top guilds have a lot higher requirements than whats actually needed to clear a raid.

Bad seeds you will find wherever you go, Darrowshire is probably the place you will find the least of them on Elysium, rest of that segment is just rambling, and it sounds like you are still lvl 12, and that is a bit early to start judging a server. + the AH is not cross faction, and addons were used in vanilla the same way its used now, difference is raid mods are out before the raid releases, and not after the first guild clears the place.

The game is not hard, but it is still time consuming, good players reduces the time requirement by clearing things faster, thus you get more time to do other stuff.

 

Now, your post is a bit vague regarding what your point is a few places, but i hope i understood it correctly, sorry if i did not

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I experienced this situation in several other MMOs and it will be always the same. 

When the hype is over and everything begins to feel "old" and "known" people are leaving or just logging in rarely because there isn't that much to do anymore.

Tbh, what else should you do beside raiding when you are not interested in R14 nolife when you have everything else on your character. You can level an alt character, ok but thats it.

Raidlogging was always a problem in WoW and most of the players on the old Nostalrius Servers are now in this state because there isn't anything else they could do. 

You are right, nearly all new players start over on Elysium so on the old servers only the old players remain and their amount is declining from week to week because they get bored and have more interesting stuff to do (Warmane, other MMOs etc.)

Exactly the same would've happened with Nostalrius. But they shut themsefl down in their peak time so they never had to experience this.

Vanilla hype is finally over, so the remaining new interested players start on Elysium and thats it. The old servers are slowly dieing and its nobodys fault. It's a natural development in MMORPGs. New patches will bring some short upcomings but not for that long. It lasted about a week on Anathema when AQ has released.

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2 hours ago, Fyron said:

I experienced this situation in several other MMOs and it will be always the same. 

When the hype is over and everything begins to feel "old" and "known" people are leaving or just logging in rarely because there isn't that much to do anymore.

Tbh, what else should you do beside raiding when you are not interested in R14 nolife when you have everything else on your character. You can level an alt character, ok but thats it.

Raidlogging was always a problem in WoW and most of the players on the old Nostalrius Servers are now in this state because there isn't anything else they could do. 

You are right, nearly all new players start over on Elysium so on the old servers only the old players remain and their amount is declining from week to week because they get bored and have more interesting stuff to do (Warmane, other MMOs etc.)

Exactly the same would've happened with Nostalrius. But they shut themsefl down in their peak time so they never had to experience this.

Vanilla hype is finally over, so the remaining new interested players start on Elysium and thats it. The old servers are slowly dieing and its nobodys fault. It's a natural development in MMORPGs. New patches will bring some short upcomings but not for that long. It lasted about a week on Anathema when AQ has released.

This, exactly this! 

Unless you're in to pvp and lots of it what else is there but to sit idle in [insert your favorite home base]? Run UBRS although you don't need it? Grind gold(something I should to really)? Alts could be fun, but it's not fun enough to keep you interested. The hype is over.

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I wanted to play on Darrowshire since I enjoy my pvp in a controlled environment and consenting to world pvp on my terms, but the population size by comparison to Elysium drew me to a PvP server.  I played vanilla back in the day on pve servers and would have much preferred to do it that way again, but I need other people to play with at the same time.  I played on Darrowshire initially but the cities and zone chat did not seem very active, and certainly not as chatty as Elysium.  Ultimately I had to compromise if I wanted to experience vanilla again unfortunately.

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Merge it with Anathema. Or better yet, merge ALL servers with Anathema.

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1 hour ago, Storfan said:

Merge it with Anathema. Or better yet, merge ALL servers with Anathema.

So everyone else got to suffer because Anathema is getting close to a blizzlike population?

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16 minutes ago, Roxy said:

So everyone else got to suffer because Anathema is getting close to a blizzlike population?

Currently it's fine yes, but I fear for the coming weeks. Summer will decimate populations on all servers with vacations, people quitting due to normal wow atrition etc, Everyone gains from a unified community.

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A big problem is that the majority auf active players has their stuff completed. Almost every big guild cleared the content, some of them level alts, some of them are raidlogging. The playerbase that is important for the 'living-factor' on servers like this just isn't existent. People need a lot of time to fill up random groups, some dungeons are more or less dead - that's mainly because people are done with their mains. Maybe they will equip alt's in a period of 2-3 days with some high-geared friends or take them straight into the next MC or ZG raid.

Darrowshire in particular is kind of a soft spot concerning this, it's the least active server and actually is in some kind of content vacuum. Dragons (o. Nightm.) will be dominated by a few selected guilds.

New players tend to either choose Anathema because they'll have access to PvP/loads of PvE content or Elysium because it's the most populated realm and isn't very far into the progression. The aspect of Darrowshire being a PvE server is another problem, leveling might be very smooth, but the PvP-content on level 60 is actually one of the worst things you can imagine.

To sum it all up: people do not log in so frequently anymore because they have trouble finding stuff to do/people to do stuff with. Kind of a vicious circle.

We'll see how the zeth'kur transfer will affect our population, but I'm afraid that we will be the server that will benefit the least from it. After that, the naturally weak summer begins. 

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9 hours ago, Storfan said:

Merge it with Anathema. Or better yet, merge ALL servers with Anathema.

I think - as a long term solution - ist the only right choice. Funny thing is atm Elysium is full with 4-7k pop but by the time Elysium is at patch 1.9 (like Anathema now) things will be worse because at patch 1.3 nostalrius had 10k pop already.

I am also missing a vision for the future of the project somehow. When Nostalrius progressed to patch 1.7 they announced TBC development. But what is going to happen now after 2 month of Kel'Thuzad farm? Why building a 2nd Atiesh if there is no follow up content? Why not starting on gummy with a new char if I cannot progress with my beloved nost main char?

Well idk, lets hope things get better when the weather is not as good as it is right now anymore :D

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I have to agree with you, Darrowshire pop is dwindling and I already know for a fact that a lot of people who play here now will also be playing on Gummy's TBC when it releases. I'm hoping that the Zeth merge will bring a short term boost to the population so a merge might be premature to do now, but I would definitely support a merge with Anathema as the long-term solution in the future. 

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I warned about this like a month ago (when I stopped playing on Darrowshire myself) but was shut down. Out of all the servers only Elysium is fully vibrant now - Anathema is "ok" but getting worse. This is creating the opposite incentive than the one that allowed Nost PVE to flourish - mainly that the people who want to keep playing vanilla here are attracted to Elysium which is nowhere near full and easily the server with the brightest future, and away from Darr/Ana/ZK(RIP).

All the servers need to be rolled into one, the sooner the better, to keep the project healthy and the community intact. Basically the Zeth'Kur treatment. Need to learn something from Blizzard's mistakes, like trying to breathe life into a gazillion dead/nearly dead servers for ages and ages and letting the situation persist. It just very simply doesn't work that way and what will in actuality happen is that the communities keep dwindling because people are having a bad time playing an MMO as solo game since they can't find groups - and thus move on to bigger and better things.

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Some good points here and yes its true all servers except Elysium are struggling. Zeth is dead and being merged Darrowshire is on the brink of death, Anathema is starting to flounder as well. All new peeps go to Elysium not because they want PvP but because the population seems stable and active.

Now also what caused this in part is lack of planning, thought, and taking care of players especially on Darrowshire. Darrowshire was completely ignored by the staff and still is in most ways. Many players left because things that would have been fixed on Elysium within days take well over a month on Darrowshire like the ZG enchants and vendors. Rules are set and on the forums and website Devs say certain rules apply but ingame when you try and get those things to apply the ingame GM's say screw off. I even felt threatened when I petitioned a GM on a chained infernal griefing and quoted the forum post from staff saying its not allowed on Darrowshire and the GM said otherwise and I had to accept that and not question him or else.

Now in regards to server merges I heavily disagree with merging into 1 big server because I like many really don't want to play on a PvP server including many currently on PvP servers feeling forced to play their unless they want a dead server or not play at all. However I think we need 1 PvP and 1 PvE server and Elysium staff screwed up big with Zeth which its to late to properly rectify but due to that they owe something back. I'd say allowing full account transfers to any server should be allowed with mentioning that all servers will fold into 1 PvP and 1 PvE server and take tallies from players where they plan to transfer to so we can see beforehand if our planned server would have a proper population.

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To add something, the normal timeline of an private server realm looks like this:

1st Phase: Packed server
2nd Phase: Heavier decrease, but usually because people stop before they really started
3rd Phase: Slow fluctuation
4th Phase: Heavy decrease, usually when peak hits 600-1200 (depending on version/server)
5th Phase: things are getting thin

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Not that it would matter since probably noone of the administration cares about Darrowshire but this was probably the last week for quiet some time that horde side got a br1 spot for 13k rp. And it was AV weekend! And my guild added ~30 extra standings with alts already :/

rAPn18s.jpg

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I m playing on Darrowshire because its a normal server .

I cant spend my time trying to get into BWL because some horde guild decides to blok the entry or get ganked while i m farming my raid mats so a merge for me means no vanilla WoW. I wander how many of the current Darrowshire players share this state .

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As a solo alt-leveler, Darrowshire is hard enough for me.

If you throw in WPVP, it would be practically impossible for me to do anything, so any merger that results in no PVE realm means I'm out of here.

 

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<Vicarious> has left Darrowshire Horde due to not having enough people to replace the ones that are slowly leaving the dead server. Starting the new fresh meme server along with its failure of a second was the reason the old servers are dead. Elysium should have just given us the two previous realms and left it at that. <Vicarious> may return if Elysium merges all realms, otherwise it's a complete waste of time putting effort into a dying realm or project.

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19 hours ago, seviren said:

I m playing on Darrowshire because its a normal server .

I cant spend my time trying to get into BWL because some horde guild decides to blok the entry or get ganked while i m farming my raid mats so a merge for me means no vanilla WoW. I wander how many of the current Darrowshire players share this state .

This is actually rare in Anathema now days. Extremely rare. There may be 1 or 2 pvp rogues ganking around blackrock mountain, but I haven't seen an guild doing this since January. The truth is that guilds ignore each other and simply want to raid.

Regarding pvp while farming, most farming zones in Anathema are pretty empty. There used to be a heavy competition months ago, for example, on Satyr's in Felwood, but now days its pretty empty. The only little world pvp I have experienced while farming herbs is maybe when you and an enemy player both try to get the same node, and it usually ends up with someone getting +10 sec CC and the other player farming the node then leaving. Most people ignore each other.

Don't get me wrong, world pvp still exists in Anathema, but its much lower than before, lvl 60's rarely attack low level towns and if they do its usually 1 guy trying to grief the flight master, and at most is a minor annoyance for anyone focusing on PVE. The truth is most players left in Anathema focus in pve and just want to farm mats and raid. PvP is active in weekend battlegrounds, but that is pretty much it.

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To sum : 1 pvp 1 pve realms like nost project would have been perfect.Back then i wanted to play on nost pvp,but due to the mass population i choose nost pve with its 4,5 k players.A lot of other people did the same,the realm kept growing...these days are gone.I chose to take my shamy from ZK to ELY but i'm not convainced it will suit me.I'm not optimistic for the future of this project.

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Yeah me and a handful of ppl I know came here because Nos PvP was packed, and would've made the same decision regardless if this server was PvP or PvE.  Releasing AQ soon on Darrowshire and then potentially having the option to merge both preNaxx would be a fantastic idea.  Basically similar to what K1/K2 did.

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I will only play on a PVE server period, and I know others feel the same way. So I suggest keeping Darroshire separate.

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Darrowshire is screwed no matter how you look at it and I would bet that if you merge us with one of the pvp servers, that majority are going to quit. They will quit because they never wanted to play on a pvp server or they will quit because they missed out on the AQ event OR they are pushed back in progression by many months. I think the progression timeline is too slow to keep people's interest and if you couple the stagnation of no new content with Summer hitting. It was just a recipe for disaster. Might I add the fact that there was never any real effort to faction balance didn't help the situation at all. 

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