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Naxxramas Public Test Announcement

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17 minutes ago, Euronymous said:

One thing you might wanna take into account while tuning is that an armour buff has convoluted implications on itemisation and playstyles.

Currently, Bonereaver's Edge is able to shave off 2.1k armour from C'thun and Ouro, simply because the sum of all the other debuffs you can apply is nowhere near 8.2k. This makes it a very strong contender, if not the best choice, for dps warriors on those fights. It certainly seems weird for an item to remain so strong so long after its expiration date.

Increasing hit points instead would create a difficulty buffer that doesn't encourage gimmicky workarounds. Fights will last longer as intended while arriors will be inclined to use current-tier weapons.

SO what is this magical 8.2 k armor, If you use the value macro C'thun has 6220 and 75 to all res minus holy....So in fact he has 0  Spell res(that's a joke so full caster damage not lowered by anything and melee reduction hits what 3k? so he really has 3220 armor......

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16 minutes ago, DaHealz said:

SO what is this magical 8.2 k armor, If you use the value macro C'thun has 6220 and 75 to all res minus holy....So in fact he has 0  Spell res(that's a joke so full caster damage not lowered by anything and melee reduction hits what 3k? so he really has 3220 armor......

I got this off the creature_template table in the db.

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18 hours ago, Storfan said:

The goal of this server is emulation of vanilla. Not to be a "custom-fun"-server. Besides, part of the fun doing vanilla this time around is over-doing encounters in ways not possible before.

thats like, your opinion

 

feenix's naxxramas was buffed and it was fine. At least you got to see boss' abilities

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@myaka

I feel you are delusional about what Naxx has to offer.   Killing bosses pre-mechanic.   KeK.

Naxx trash alone is harder than anything you see in game pre-Chromag.

 

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9 hours ago, paultrouble said:

thats like, your opinion

 

feenix's naxxramas was buffed and it was fine. At least you got to see boss' abilities

No, that's a fact.

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3 hours ago, Storfan said:

No, that's a fact.

NO an emulation of the game would require you to experience the game how it was during that time. Look at MC bosses die under 30 seconds with people in crap gear, but know how to maximize their class now unlike they did during that time. The fact is the game is played differently I wouldn't even say more hardcore since players are just better and the game was not tuned for that level of skill at the time. Look at twin emps. My guid (not a top guild) would kill it with 8-9min left until enrage with NO aq gear....remember during vanalla when it was a dps race ppl running back and forth trying to beat the clock......

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7 hours ago, Undertanker said:

@myaka

I feel you are delusional about what Naxx has to offer.   Killing bosses pre-mechanic.   KeK.

Naxx trash alone is harder than anything you see in game pre-Chromag.

 

What does trash have to do with killing bosses pre-mechanics?

Just do the math. On Loatheb for example. He has 5 330 000 HP. After 2 minutes he applies his first doom, and after that every 30 seconds. You can comfortably eat two dooms. So in order to kill him before the third doom you have 120 + 30 + 30 + 30 = 210 seconds.

You need 5 330 000 / 210 = 25380 DPS. You have 39 people that are going to be DPS:ing. That's 25380/39 = 650 DPS per player. Obviously, healers and tanks aren't going to be doing as much damage as the other classes but still. Oh, and you have +50% crit chance/+60% spell crit chance buff. Fully buffed people will be running with 80-90% crit. It will be a joke unless the HP is buffed a bit.

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7 hours ago, myaka said:

What does trash have to do with killing bosses pre-mechanics?

Just do the math. On Loatheb for example. He has 5 330 000 HP. After 2 minutes he applies his first doom, and after that every 30 seconds. You can comfortably eat two dooms. So in order to kill him before the third doom you have 120 + 30 + 30 + 30 = 210 seconds.

You need 5 330 000 / 210 = 25380 DPS. You have 39 people that are going to be DPS:ing. That's 25380/39 = 650 DPS per player. Obviously, healers and tanks aren't going to be doing as much damage as the other classes but still. Oh, and you have +50% crit chance/+60% spell crit chance buff. Fully buffed people will be running with 80-90% crit. It will be a joke unless the HP is buffed a bit.

You are right and this is the entire point! DPs is FAR FAR to high for things like this....this is 1 of many bosses coming, and currently in game where the ball has been dropped about correct scaling, where We did see it CORRECT was in aq on huhuran who ever chose to have her hp increased by almost double did the right move!

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18 hours ago, myaka said:

What does trash have to do with killing bosses pre-mechanics?

Just do the math. On Loatheb for example. He has 5 330 000 HP. After 2 minutes he applies his first doom, and after that every 30 seconds. You can comfortably eat two dooms. So in order to kill him before the third doom you have 120 + 30 + 30 + 30 = 210 seconds.

You need 5 330 000 / 210 = 25380 DPS. You have 39 people that are going to be DPS:ing. That's 25380/39 = 650 DPS per player. Obviously, healers and tanks aren't going to be doing as much damage as the other classes but still. Oh, and you have +50% crit chance/+60% spell crit chance buff. Fully buffed people will be running with 80-90% crit. It will be a joke unless the HP is buffed a bit.

4 tanks 12 healers in raid randomly = 24 dps slots left

so lets say we need to do 25380 DPS and that the encounter starts instantly and there is no positioning then we have 25380/24 = 1057.5 dps per dps class, also if you consider the ~5.5 % dps loss from moving  for ~5 seconds every 90 seconds you get that while on boss the dps needs to do over 1.1k dps each... this is ofc reduced by the healer/tank dps that is not 0 but it is also increased by running into the room, moving as a melee to get the buff etc...

ofc the boss might seem easy still, and gets very easy with a few shadow protection potions but calling it a joke before the actual ptr is kinda silly...

On 7/1/2017 at 1:12 AM, paultrouble said:

feenix's naxxramas was buffed and it was fine. At least you got to see boss' abilities

Some of them sure... not all of them and definitely not tuned to compensate for broken class mechanics in most cases

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Cmon! Naxx should be buffed or it will be MC-mode.

Today geared guild is able to do 20-25k raid DPS w/o spore buff and smiting priests(on loatheb healers deal ~150-200 DPS).

Feenix Naxx was really hard and still very balanced while Blizzlike Naxx is joke.

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1 час назад, Sulf сказал:

Cmon! Naxx should be buffed or it will be MC-mode.

Today geared guild is able to do 20-25k raid DPS w/o spore buff and smiting priests(on loatheb healers deal ~150-200 DPS).

Feenix Naxx was really hard and still very balanced while Blizzlike Naxx is joke.

+1

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4 hours ago, Knife said:

4 tanks 12 healers in raid randomly = 24 dps slots left

so lets say we need to do 25380 DPS and that the encounter starts instantly and there is no positioning then we have 25380/24 = 1057.5 dps per dps class, also if you consider the ~5.5 % dps loss from moving  for ~5 seconds every 90 seconds you get that while on boss the dps needs to do over 1.1k dps each... this is ofc reduced by the healer/tank dps that is not 0 but it is also increased by running into the room, moving as a melee to get the buff etc...

ofc the boss might seem easy still, and gets very easy with a few shadow protection potions but calling it a joke before the actual ptr is kinda silly...

Some of them sure... not all of them and definitely not tuned to compensate for broken class mechanics in most cases

Look... This is the DPS a few guilds put out on Ebonroc in BWL:

  • Coalition: 18982
  • Dreamstate: 17515
  • Flashback: 14616
  • Miskatonic: 18147
  • Kaamos: 14030
  • Morph: 15287
  • Scuba Cops: 16950
  • Blacklisted: 12846
  • Sorry: 11737 (36 players)
  • Dankk Budz Collective: 11671

Add to this fire mages and the 50/60% crit buff. So let's say that fire mages add an additional 3000 DPS (probably conservative), the healing classes 2000 DPS (166 per caster, also conservative), the crit bonus adds 50% damage (hard to calculate, might be too high). For Coalition this would end up being (18982 + 3000 + 2000) * 1.5 = 35973 DPS. For Blacklisted it's 26769 DPS. For DBC it's 25006 DPS. Of course, it's hard to know just how much the spore buff will boost damage - this is just my guess.

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1 час назад, myaka сказал:

Look... This is the DPS a few guilds put out on Ebonroc in BWL:

  • Coalition: 18982
  • Dreamstate: 17515
  • Flashback: 14616
  • Miskatonic: 18147
  • Kaamos: 14030
  • Morph: 15287
  • Scuba Cops: 16950
  • Blacklisted: 12846
  • Sorry: 11737 (36 players)
  • Dankk Budz Collective: 11671

Add to this fire mages and the 50/60% crit buff. So let's say that fire mages add an additional 3000 DPS (probably conservative), the healing classes 2000 DPS (166 per caster, also conservative), the crit bonus adds 50% damage (hard to calculate, might be too high). For Coalition this would end up being (18982 + 3000 + 2000) * 1.5 = 35973 DPS. For Blacklisted it's 26769 DPS. For DBC it's 25006 DPS. Of course, it's hard to know just how much the spore buff will boost damage - this is just my guess.

numbers is even higher... 19k DPS on Ebon is ~55sec fight time...

So, acording to realmplayers, we have more than 30x guilds with higher than 15k DPS on Ebonroc, 3x guilds who did more than 20k DPS  on Ebonroc, and ~8 guilds with more than 20k DPS on Flamegor.

With Naxx trash drop weapons and more AQ40 bis items + things like Titanic legguards any decent guild will be abble to peak 20k DPS.

P.S. And just to noticed(ofc its buffed, but still) 8 guilds with more than 30k DPS (with 33k #1 dps guild) on Vael.

 

Naxx bosses are designed for raids with ~8-9k Raid DPS w/o world buffs... And ~10-11k world buffed. Currently 99% of guilds(even MC starting!) are better! 

And top guilds will be ~3x times higher than this was designed for.

That will affect bosses:

Anub - possible to kill before 1-st swarm(rofl!)

Faerlina - possible to kill in 100% silence mode(w/o any singe rain of fire or poison AoE)(rofl!)

Maexxna - possible to kill in 2-3 web sprays even w/o healing(1-st spray Last Stand+Lifegiving gem, 2-nd spray - Shield Wall) and complete skip of web spray in Enrage state.(rofl!)

Noth - possible to kill before balcony phase(rofl!)

Heigan - possible to kill before dancing(rofl!)

Loatheb - possible to kill in 2x shadow prot pots only(w/o HS and bandages), or even in 1 GSSP at all =) Makes boss one-shot.

Patchwerk - ez kill in 1-2 Greater Stoneshield potion for tanks and any major mana pots/runes for healers.

Grobbulus - ez kill while 75% of room is still empty, youre dont have problems with space and clouds. P.S. This boss have Enrage timer! hahahah

Gluth - possible to kill even before 1-st Decimate(ROFL!)

Thaddius - still very fast fight, you're 100% dont have any problems with enrage timers.

Razuvious - its possible to kill boss even w/o healing adds at all... 

Gothik - dont need any tactic one shackles, kill order etc - just kill everything you see (rofl!)

4H - absolute ez fight...  For hardcore guilds is possible to nuke in ~60 sec Thane(or any other) w/o heal(jsut 2x GSSP+ 1 GFPP), shield wall wouldn't save him.

If you're have enough dps to nuke him - you can ez finish encounter in just 5-6 tanks and 10 healers, and ofc you wouldn't get any problems with 100 marks(20min) enrage.

Sapph - well' still isn't possible to skip Deep breath at all, but possible to nuke him down w/o using frost resist gear at all.

KT - 1-st phase become really ez. But in general still pretty hard boss, anyway you can nuke him down before your healers goes out of mana and boss will be RNG based (MC targets), fury warriors can easily tank him. in such mode.

 

So, we can see, that at least 9-10 bosses in Naxx are loosing entire phases if raid  is going to maximize their DPS, that makes Naxx really really ez mode.

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Most of us here on Elysium would like a blizzlike experience and not blizzlike raids. Releasing Naxx as it was on retail will be a disappointment when the first guilds clear KT on the day of release.  

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Curse of KT disables the effects of all consumables (including mana pots, so bring enough healers) except shadow prot potion. That might do the trick in one big sweep, instead of using lot of time to tweak every encounter.

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13 минуты назад, sreaver сказал:

Curse of KT disables the effects of all consumables (including mana pots, so bring enough healers) except shadow prot potion. That might do the trick in one big sweep, instead of using lot of time to tweak every encounter.

GL on Patchwerk lol with ~9k HP tanks and ~7-11k Hateful strike.

The most ez buff is x2 HP buff for all bosses except Loatheb(x1.5 for loatheb) and Sapph/Kel(x3 for em), also 4H should be buffed hard(at least 2.000.000 HP each + marks dmg buff, to make 5mark hits for like 7k and 6mark for ~10k, because tank fail should be dangerous for raid. Cause blizzlike 4h is too ez as for tanks.

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7 hours ago, myaka said:

Look... This is the DPS a few guilds put out on Ebonroc in BWL:

Ebonroc fight facts:

-fight duration: 60 seconds

-20 second cooldown uptime (like earthstrike) = 20/60 = 33.3% (short fight = short cooldowns cover a bigger % of the fight)

-over 80% of the raid usually has a ZG buff (15% all stats) because it doesn't disappear on death (changed in naxx patch)

-over half the raid has onyxia/dmt buffs because they dont wipe on T2 content in T2.5 gear after a year of farming (expected lower % in a progress run id say)

-dps still way below the suggested 25k

-a dagger rogue (extreme example if you know white hit mechanics but still an example) in ~bis aq40 gear gains around 16% dps from loatheb buff (presuming he has no world buffs but fungal bloom from loatheb and his own consumables/raid buffs like motw/windfury/battleshout etc)

-a sword rogue gains ~27% dps from fungal bloom (same thing as above)

-fight involves 0 movement and nobody needs to switch target, also just like on loatheb nobody has the buff at the very start of the fight and many dont have it till quite a bit into the fight...

 

TLDR: Wait out the PTR and if the devs still think content is too easy they can easily adjust a few numbers in the DB and hopefully this time not only melee are gonna be affected by the tuning :)

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@Knife

I think you're missing a lot here though. For example, Coalitions dps after wiping on Firemaw the week before was just shy of 18000. That's with only ZG buff. You underestimate hugely the amount of damage added for casters. And then you also have 39 people doing damage instead of 25. You'll have Nightfall up all the time as well because your three other tanks have nothing to do. It will easily be above 25000 dps for most guilds. But I guess we can just agree to disagree.

I do agree with you that we should wait for PTR. There's nothing wrong with pointing out stuff like this though and they already responded with an answer saying that they will buff them if something can be cheesed. :)

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15 минут назад, Knife сказал:

ofc im missing alot but im not the only one going "to extreme" with numbers :)

Just watch at other servers history. Feenix is perfect as example. Ppl was doing easily 900+ DPS at PW(he had ~5k armor). Skilled and overgearedgeared was able to do 1400+ with DMF, Head buff and Songflower (most time there wasn't DM and ZG buffs), even there were few hunters who can deal more than 1k dps. And dont blame class mechanics - feenix class mechanics were exactly same as here, ~70AP buff from winterfall+scrolls stack won't change so much.

Ofc, noob guild will die and loose their world buffs= lower dps, but top guilds wouldn't get any problems if they'll go Abom>Necro>Spider>DK wings. Abom+Necro+~half/full(depends on how much raid leader will explain tactics) can be cleared with worldbuffs up, also there will be Lordaeron's stam buff...

I already seen naxx dps, I seen Elysium MC dps(btw, Feenix BWL DPS was lower than here, cause there were less skilled players during BWL times(it was 2010)).

So I bet Anathema players will deal even more DPS in Naxx than it was at Feenix. Also I can bet that highest patchwerk DPS(not counting mages) will be around 2k for fury warrior with KT swords.

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On 2.7.2017 at 6:35 PM, DPS said:

GL on Patchwerk lol with ~9k HP tanks and ~7-11k Hateful strike.

The most ez buff is x2 HP buff for all bosses except Loatheb(x1.5 for loatheb) and Sapph/Kel(x3 for em), also 4H should be buffed hard(at least 2.000.000 HP each + marks dmg buff, to make 5mark hits for like 7k and 6mark for ~10k, because tank fail should be dangerous for raid. Cause blizzlike 4h is too ez as for tanks.

I don't remember hateful ever doing over 9k in real Vanilla. And after few kills it was done mostly without consumables, so it's definitely doable that way, just hard. Also it brings chaos in to the fight that is crucial element of real vanilla raiding, and let's guilds with fast reactions and good raid leaders shine, as they avoid wipe even when some of the tanks die.

Hopefully some kind of artificial lag will be implemented on Heigan dance too.

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Why are you playing on a 12 year old private server if you want content to be super challenging?

 

No one has killed mythic Kil'Jaden yet in retail, go play there if you are looking for something to throw yourself against.

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All these feenix turdnuggets coming out in herds defending the ridiculous tuning on feenix. An environment where KT was basicly unkillable if you weren't a chinese guild with 400 people able to just throw bodies at him or alliance with salvation. And this on a server where EVERY SINGLE buff was stackable. A server where the entire raid would be 95% aq40/naxx BiS, have soulstones on everyone and all available world buffs. And this was actually the minimum requirement to even begin to think about engaging a boss like KT.  

Please do not follow in Feenix footsteps. 

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So exited to hear this news, Naxxramas, i v been waiting so long for that!

thanks for the great works the community had done.

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Hello,

I was wondering what are the ways we can give you Feedbacks? I guess by using the bug tracker but are there other ways? Do you need written reports or do we have to use any kinds of tools for that? If anyone can let me know, it would be very very nice.

Fweezd.

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