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Darrowshire Merge NO

Darrowshire Not Merge  

101 members have voted

  1. 1. You want Darrowshire Pve server forever?

    • Yes
      64
    • No
      37


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Have the staff said for definite that Darrowshire will be merged? Would like to know before I spend any more time levelling as I'd rather not play than play on a pvp realm.

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Ignore Crestfall, it is a different project.

Merge Anathema and Elysium, once Naxx is released on both realms for some months. Let Darrowshire stay a PvE realm.

Open up 3 TBC realms (2x PvP and 1x PvE), all with the same patch. Merge the 2 PvP realms, if you feel the need to do so.

That's what I would prefer.

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6 hours ago, Keala said:

You sure are stubborn as hell about this argument, aren't you?

Of course.  When people repeatedly insist on being VAGUE and hiding behind their deliberate lack of specificity in order to shield themselves from being revealed as not having a good faith argument to make ... yeah, I get stubborn about that kind of thing.

Them: The population needs to be higher.
Me: How much higher?
Them: Higher.
Me: Care to put NUMBERS to your demand of a higher population?
Them: Higher.
Me: So, no matter what the numbers ACTUALLY ARE ... it's never enough?
Them: I never said that.
Me: Actually, you've yet to say anything USEFUL ... even after being invited to do so.
Them: Well, I think Darrowshire's population is too low to be viable, so there!
Me: Then what kind of population numbers do you think WOULD be viable?
Them: It's not my place to say. That's a decision that only Elysium Project staff should make.
Me: So you're entitled to say what WON'T work, but have no intention of laying a marker down as to what WOULD work, in your opinion?
Them: That's right.
Me: So you're making an assertion, without evidence of its factual value, with the explicit understanding that your assertion cannot tested for a True/False condition.
Them: Yup.
Me: And then when your assertion is challenged, you fall back on the circular logic of your assertion being True despite offering no evidence of Truth to support the assertion, while continuing to avoid responsibility for your assertion in the event that your assertion is actually False.
Them: You're really stubborn.
Me: I merely asked you to provide NUMBERS to benchmark the validity of your OPINION ... but even that standard of proof seems to be ... Anathema to you.
Them: Well, Darrowshire's population is too low, the server is dying, and I'm right because I said so.
Me: Just because you keep saying that, doesn't mean it's true.
Them: Yes it does.
Me: You're arguing in Bad Faith™.
Them: No I'm not!
Me: Let me guess ... you want me to believe that too.
Them: DUH!

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13 hours ago, Roxanne Flowers said:

Care to put (other people's) money where your mouth is?

Stop waving your hands in the air while being as vague as possible by omitting ANYTHING remotely resembling, you know ... NUMBERS.

You're basically making what amounts to a financial claim based on ... poetry and prose ... rather than numbers used in the maths of finances.

C'mon people, this isn't that hard.  Use your NUMBERS, not your WORDS.

As for the straw man argument of "dividing" the community ... consider that the alternative is to tell the community to GO AWAY because We Don't Serve Your Kind Here™.  I find it ironic that some people think that banishment and exile is preferable to having a choice of servers to play on.

I already told you I'm not coming up with numbers.  I don't know what's economically viable for the Elysium team and what isn't, so why the hell would I put numbers to it?  Maybe they can sustain a server of 3,000, maybe it's 1,000, I have no idea, but it's common sense not to keep pouring money and time into something for a small part of the community.  Stop being thick.

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3 hours ago, Myllz said:

I already told you I'm not coming up with numbers.  I don't know what's economically viable for the Elysium team and what isn't, so why the hell would I put numbers to it?  Maybe they can sustain a server of 3,000, maybe it's 1,000, I have no idea, but it's common sense not to keep pouring money and time into something for a small part of the community.  Stop being thick.

Grabbed a Screenshot less than 20 minutes ago in Ironforge on Darrowshire (about 2130p server time on Sunday).

1ycTSVu.jpg

Yeah, you're right.  There's NOBODY playing on the server right now.  It's deader than dead.  Completely dead.  Zero logins AT ALL.

And that's not even including all the people Playing on the Horde Side.  Except ... oh wait ... there are zero people playing on Horde Side on Darrowshire too, right?  Anyone with a Horde character feel like logging in and doing a /who with no filtering by zone/level like I'm doing here to show what kind of population Darrowshire has on the Horde side?

Hmmm ... according to Vanilla Radar, the ratio of Alliance to Horde right now is a about 70:30 ... so 1720*3=516 (or so) Horde characters logged in right now ... and the concurrent logins haven't even peaked yet for today.

But as everyone knows 516 is functionally synonymous with ZERO, right?  Am I right?

So ... there's about 1200 Alliance Players and 500 Horde Players logged in to Darrowshire right now, concurrently, but ... of course ... THEY DON'T COUNT.  Am I right?  Elysium Project can just switch the Darrowshire server off and no one would miss it, would they?  Huh?  Huh?

Am I right or am I right?

/sarcasm

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Show me where I said they don't count, there's nobody playing on the server and that it's completely dead.  You show me that and I'll concede the argument.

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@Roxanne FlowersYour argument has a major issue you haven't considered.

Online counts both factions, this is correct. However, this doesn't mean that this is the amount of players.
The /who online count adds every character online, this means every player Multiboxing contributes the amount of his characters online to "players" online. Same for Bots, goldseller spam accounts, staff characters online and many many more.
So from the 1700+ you see on your screenshot, it's not 1700+ players. It could actually be a lot less depending on amount of online multiboxing players, bots, spam accounts, staff, etc etc etc.

 

52 minutes ago, Software said:

You could, you know, just go play on the other servers.

I am tired of explaining it.
I am committed to my main just as everyone else, why am I supposed to throw away 200 days played just to reroll yet another time just like I had to on Nostalrius to avoid 12.5k+ peaks on an established server with huge spell and cast delay and severe decreasing of view distance?

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What is making the Servers (Anathema and Darrow) dying is the constant drama and titty pitty scandals this project have , the rest is just speculation and conspiracy arrogant theories led by their believes and ignorance.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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Has anyone touched on the topic of server population in TBC realms? 

Outlands is far smaller than both Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor, never mind both combined. With Elysium's population peaking at 9k, I'm struggling to envision a Outlands launch with even half that many players. 

Granted, they won't all be 60's, but obviously most people will be. We don't know what kind of numbers we will see, but there should be no question that server caps should be lowered and thus we will need multiple TBC servers, make one a PvE and 2 PvP servers.

Cap Elysium at 4k and Darrowshire and Anathema will have significant growth. Do similar for two or three TBC servers and the population will be spread. The ingame world was never designed to facilitate 9000 players at once, we need server caps which will spread the players across more realms.

DO NOT REMOVE THE ONLY PVE REALM.

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How the **** did you come to the conclusion that capping Elysium at 4k and by doing that removing 50% of the concurrent players online will solve anything?

It will only cause drama and REEEEing, as you lock out anyone that has invested a tremendous time there already by RNG queueing and praying to enter the game world before you are already out of time to play for the day.
It would just like release days promote anti afking and the likes again, and for sure players won't reroll on Ana or Darrow just to play the game.

People are attached to their main characters.

STOP this reroll / fresh start MEME. Honestly. Its ANNOYING.

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Many people on Darrowshire will leave Elysium Project when an upcoming merge with Anathema/Elysium is official. A merge will render hundreds, maybe even thousands of characters obsolete.

I know people from <Red Sector A> (horde) who will leave the project immediately. I just emailed with one of them today. Its so depressing to see that this door has been opened by that Q&A and that this silly discussion has been started as a consequence.

It would be so nice if Elysium actually confesses that their PvE community is valueable and something they are proud of. This fucking 1.12 PvE realm is the only good option in the internet for PvE-only players. People who still play here are thankful for everything you provide and now they are scared that their PvE status will not persist.

It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Once you suggest that there might be an upcoming merge into a PvP realm if population shrinks too much (whatever that means), then the population will shrink because people are scared, demotivated and annoyed by that threat alone - so that a merge becomes unavoidable and any discussion becomes pointless.

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3 hours ago, Nelythia said:

@Roxanne FlowersYour argument has a major issue you haven't considered.

Online counts both factions, this is correct. However, this doesn't mean that this is the amount of players.
The /who online count adds every character online, this means every player Multiboxing contributes the amount of his characters online to "players" online. Same for Bots, goldseller spam accounts, staff characters online and many many more.
So from the 1700+ you see on your screenshot, it's not 1700+ players. It could actually be a lot less depending on amount of online multiboxing players, bots, spam accounts, staff, etc etc etc.

 

I am tired of explaining it.
I am committed to my main just as everyone else, why am I supposed to throw away 200 days played just to reroll yet another time just like I had to on Nostalrius to avoid 12.5k+ peaks on an established server with huge spell and cast delay and severe decreasing of view distance?

So instead of you "throwing away" time on your main, you'd ask a huge portion of the Darrowshire population to "throw away" their experience? Many like me simply wouldn't play any more if this happened. Cool.

The fact is, many of us like a small population, and we don't all want to play on ridiculously unrealistic megaservers with 7000+ people. That's not my issue that you decided to roll there and are too stubborn to make a new character.

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2 hours ago, vibitrary said:

Outlands is far smaller than both Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor, never mind both combined. With Elysium's population peaking at 9k, I'm struggling to envision a Outlands launch with even half that many players.

While this is True , you should remember that the Zones itself are much much bigger than those in Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdor , which mean , the population size will not be an issue at all, in fact it will be even better than in Vanilla for such reason.

You may argue that Vanilla Zones are many , but from all of the Population 80% of the active players are lvl 60 and are playing again in same Zone, just like in TBC how it will be at lvl 70.

Don't get me wrong, i support you to keep the PVE server as PVE, it will be big mistake to replace it with some PVP and leave no choice for those who don't want PVP.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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Really what it comes down is a question of ... Divide or Jettison ... which is the bigger risk?

Some people will say that Dividing the community of Players is the bigger risk.
Others will say that Jettisoning an entire established community would be the bigger risk.

As far as I'm concerned, the risks are not symmetrical.

Dividing the community is something that would only happen (if at all) AFTER the release of any TBC servers ... but Jettisoning that entire community could begin RIGHT NOW, by sending that community the message that they're not only Not Wanted, but also that They Just Don't Matter.

It the difference between saying the Bridge Might Fall after we've crossed it ... or saying we'll burn it before we even get to it.

These are asymmetrical risks.  The results of being wrong in either case are nowhere near equally problematic.  Remember, we're trying to BUILD communities of Players here ... not find reasons excuses to pre-emptively abandon them with a message that amounts to We Don't Serve Your Kind Here.

And why don't we want to do that?

Because that's what Blizzard did to us ... when they refused to accept that there might be a viable number of players to support vanilla WoW servers.

Who here is in a huge rush to repeat Blizzard's mistake(s) in this regard?

Anyone?

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13 hours ago, Nelythia said:

How the **** did you come to the conclusion that capping Elysium at 4k and by doing that removing 50% of the concurrent players online will solve anything?

It will only cause drama and REEEEing, as you lock out anyone that has invested a tremendous time there already by RNG queueing and praying to enter the game world before you are already out of time to play for the day.
It would just like release days promote anti afking and the likes again, and for sure players won't reroll on Ana or Darrow just to play the game.

People are attached to their main characters.

STOP this reroll / fresh start MEME. Honestly. Its ANNOYING.

Most people roll on Elysium because of the population. If they were to offer transfers from Ely to Darrowshire and Anathema while capping population in Elysium at somewhere between 3-5k, plenty would take the transfer opportunity, plenty would re-roll, plenty would deal with queues, and a few would quit. 

Elysium is not the problem child, it's Darrowshire and Anathema. No one is suggesting re-roll or fresh starts, merely ways to push players to spread across other realms. How anyone could deny that 9k is too much for a vanilla server with Blizzlike spawn rates is beyond me.

11 hours ago, killerduki said:

While this is True , you should remember that the Zones itself are much much bigger than those in Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdor , which mean , the population size will not be an issue at all, in fact it will be even better than in Vanilla for such reason.

You may argue that Vanilla Zones are many , but from all of the Population 80% of the active players are lvl 60 and are playing again in same Zone, just like in TBC how it will be at lvl 70.

Don't get me wrong, i support you to keep the PVE server as PVE, it will be big mistake to replace it with some PVP and leave no choice for those who don't want PVP.

/Kind regards Killerduki

I don't think they are that much bigger than Azeroth zones tbh. The main quest hubs are about the same and mob density is similar. Bigger, yes, but Hellfire Peninsula is not capable of holding thousands of players. 

Would be interesting to measure the size of the zones to compare. 

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They are going to break Elysium into 2 TBC servers, so there will be a transfer of some sort anyway. why not include a transfer into Darrowshire to that, and we will gain the players who don't want to play in the overpopulated servers?

TBC Zones are larger than vanilla ones, but they are not comparable to the size of the entire Vanilla. People are a lot more spread out in vanilla than what they are in Outlands, just imagine a Shattrath with 5k players inside, it would be a crazy lagfest at all times.

People will be farming rep and doing daily quests at the same places, which are not THAT many places to spread out the daily activity.

3-4k players are Max of what will be enjoyable in TBC, anything above that and its just a constant fight for resources and quest mobs.

 

Darrowshire is at a medium population when it come to Blizzard standards, which is a decent population, and with TBC starting fresh on all servers, the PvE server will be a viable place to be for new players, instead of chosing the newest server which is Elysium just because they don't want to miss out on anything.

 

 

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22 hours ago, Nelythia said:

The /who online count adds every character online, this means every player Multiboxing ...

Oh yes the huge problem of multiboxing (not allowed) that is so prominent I've seen a total of zero. All those multiboxers padding that number. . . 

22 hours ago, Nelythia said:

Same for Bots, goldseller spam accounts . . .

Yep.

22 hours ago, Nelythia said:

 staff characters online  ...

LOL! Either there are zero staff online or zero goldsellers and spammers due to, you know, staff banning them.

In any case if you were online at all today you saw the pop spike over 2k. That's more than enough to find groups for whatever you want to do. There is no argument for merging Darrowshire due to low pop. None. 

You would rather play your horde on a PvP server. I get that. But it was your choice to come to Darrowshire. It's also your choice to stay there. Taking away the choice of thousands of other players to remain on a PvE server so you can have your way is a bit myopic to say the least.

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1 hour ago, Pieper said:

Oh yes the huge problem of multiboxing (not allowed) that is so prominent I've seen a total of zero. All those multiboxers padding that number. . . 

Then you don't play much or you don't know what Multiboxing refers to.
Alone today I have seen 3 alliance multiboxers crossing me in Badlands, and that is only 3 that crossed me.
In addition to that from 2k online today (which is both factions still and doesn't mean that horde is not low populated) you have countless of players having multiple characters online. It's not a story I made up, its a fact. Alone in my guild there are up to 10 players every day having more than 1 character online, be it for Lotus spawn camping, checking the AH, mailing/banking or anything else. That is ~13 players ALONE from my playing perspective today. Now count all the other potential multiboxers of alliance side especially, and horde to that.

1 hour ago, Pieper said:

LOL! Either there are zero staff online or zero goldsellers and spammers due to, you know, staff banning them.

As former staff member on Nostalrius myself I can tell you that this is by far not true.
Goldspam bots are online for sometimes days, because most GM's will just mute them instead of banning them, since bots will never know if they are still spamming when you let them online but with disabled chat.

Also staff doesn't have any alerts that tell you "hey here is goldspammer character XYZ" so your whole argument of "either no staff is online or they're banning them" is not valid at all. You are making this up, with no experience behind the curtains whatsoever.

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35 minutes ago, Nelythia said:

Then you don't play much or you don't know what Multiboxing refers to.
Alone today I have seen 3 alliance multiboxers crossing me in Badlands, and that is only 3 that crossed me.
In addition to that from 2k online today (which is both factions still and doesn't mean that horde is not low populated) you have countless of players having multiple characters online. It's not a story I made up, its a fact. Alone in my guild there are up to 10 players every day having more than 1 character online, be it for Lotus spawn camping, checking the AH, mailing/banking or anything else. That is ~13 players ALONE from my playing perspective today. Now count all the other potential multiboxers of alliance side especially, and horde to that.

As former staff member on Nostalrius myself I can tell you that this is by far not true.
Goldspam bots are online for sometimes days, because most GM's will just mute them instead of banning them, since bots will never know if they are still spamming when you let them online but with disabled chat.

Also staff doesn't have any alerts that tell you "hey here is goldspammer character XYZ" so your whole argument of "either no staff is online or they're banning them" is not valid at all. You are making this up, with no experience behind the curtains whatsoever.

Im sorry, but you are you really suggesting that multiboxing make up for a significant portion of the population on darrowshire? 

Multiboxing even on servers where it is allowed doesnt have so many multiboxers to make up a big part of the population, but on this server it is? 

Why dont you report them if you see so many? 

Right now it just feels like you are making things up just so you got something left to argue with.

Unless you got any proof to back up your claim

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Calling yourself former staff member is a bit of a stretch. Community ambassadors have not been involved that deep into the project and you did not do it longer than some weeks >.<

Your egocentric "give my R14 warrior some lambs to slaughter"-motivation, your missing empathy regarding PvE-only players and everything I have experienced of you on Darrowshire make me think that you are a sociopath. 200 days /played on a server that is hardly online for two years (Nost+Elysium time) is alarming.

Going on such a personal level is dirty, I know. And I should shut up because I don't have a track record for being a stable personality myself, too. But seriously, you have a problem Nelythia. You try to destroy the experience for a huge number of people, even though you could improve your own experience without hurting anyone actually: play on Elysium or Anathema and stop your witch hunt against Darrowshire.

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For your information, I haven't said it takes up the majority or a big amount of online count, but it still proves that saying "duh huh it said 2000 online" is not to be taken serious, as at least some of that can be ignored due to multiboxing, botting, goldspamming, etc.

Also, every guild has many accounts going around, being shared and multiboxed. Why am I supposed to call my guildmates out, when almost any "serious" raiding guild on Darrow (at least on Horde I know 3 guilds with only some of character names involved) does it and keeps it behind the curtains?
 

4 minutes ago, Mahtan said:

Calling yourself former staff member is a bit of a stretch. Community ambassadors have not been involved that deep into the project and you did not do it longer than some weeks >.<

I was senior GM on Nostalrius, I was CA, CM and Senior GM on Elysium. How do you dare to claim I haven't been involved deep into the project?

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And hilarity ensues.

So out of a 2k population of concurrent logins ... how many should "not count" as people actively playing?  10%?  20%?  50%? 80%? 100%?

I've said it before, but it looks like the admonishment needs to be reiterated.  Use your NUMBERS ... not your Weasel Words.

So you saw THREE whole multiboxers cross your path today?  And that's your justification for {fill in the blank here}?

And in the interest of returning to the spirit of hilarity ...

 

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As long as you let players choose everything will be fine.

 

Let the PvE-community on Darrowshire go to a PvE-TBC realm.

Let the guys who only joined Darrowshire because Nostalrius PvP had 14k pop and lag join a PvP-TBC realm.

 

People have to understand that a lot of the players (probably especially horde side) on Darrowshire aren't PvE-players. Some of those rerolled Elysium in January (r14 Kennymarsh, r13 Hedgelord, r13 Fexius) but a lot stayed. There is no need for insults. Darrowshire is a healthy realm. But if you're interested in PvP it's bad. And if you played there from the start it's bad as well. Nefarian first kill guild <Hope> just disbanded because nine month BWL is shredding the long time player base.

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