The Devilsaur monopoly.

[Hurricane2 2]

12 minutes ago, metagame said:

@Hurricane2 I feel like we've reached an impasse. Your interpretation of the way the game is made is different than mine.

I don't know how to respond to this, is it possible you can explain what you mean? Are you saying "the game is made this way therefore it should be allowed"? I would disagree with that, as the game's rules are a combination of game mechanics and written guidelines.

With the way Blizzard designed the game cross faction communication is not possible.  I don't know why you say I'm interpreting anything, the game was made that way.

 

 

[metagame 8]

10 minutes ago, nooobieee said:

If an alliance player helps a horde player beat another alliance player. And the horde player does the same for the alliance player... that's the definition of win-trading.

I've never heard of win-trading used to describe anything other than arena or battlegrounds.

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I don't see any way you could consider that within the rules.

It is within the rules because there is no rule against it. 

I feel like people have two default modes of thinking: either they think everything is against the rules unless specifically allowed by an authority, or they feel like everything is within the rules unless specifically prohibited by an authority. I'm definitely in the latter category.

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I get Pottu's point that they don't have the resources to police this (although this is how policing works, you find the most troublesome place and you enforce there until the trouble move to another place... rinse/repeat).

Pottu actually had two other good points in response to this in the last thread:
 

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2) We prefer all of our rules to be as universal and general as possible.

5) There exists a player-based solution to a player-created "problem", in fact two of them. You can "steal" leather from them if you're a good enough rogue or you can form your own groups and take the Crater by force.

 

[metagame 8]

2 minutes ago, Hurricane2 said:

With the way Blizzard designed the game cross faction communication is not possible.  I don't know why you say I'm interpreting anything, the game was made that way.

Okay, let's try taking a different approach to this issue. If it is not your opinion or interpretation of the rules that is causing this disagreement, what is it then? Why are we talking about this? Is everyone who disagrees with you just wrong, and you're right? How would you describe my position?

[Shiamorah 20]

The GM staff have to focus on lots of different issues, from bots, to bugged out players, to gold spammers, etc... Most of these issues cannot be solved by the players, and require GM intervention. This is a specific issue that can be solved by the players. If the staff had unlimited resources and were able to pin players without doubt that they were circumventing Blizzard mechanics (i.e. crossfaction chat not being available), then they would pursue these issues. 

The reality is that investigations into things like this would be so time consuming, that they would probably be forced to lower the priority on already high priority issues, such as gold spammers.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Shiamorah

[Voice 2]

4 hours ago, Shiamorah said:

Quote from Pottu: https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/40577-elysium-pvp-devilsaur-leather-at-2750g-per-piece-cornered-market-mafia/?page=2

 

He doesnt adress people running both alliance and horde at the same time while pvp'ing, farming or doing instances, lots of us would love to run both alliance and horde in BGs to help our self.

[nooobieee 3]

32 minutes ago, Shiamorah said:

This is a specific issue that can be solved by the players.

How is this issue solved by the players? I can't prevent another player on my own faction from healing the opposite faction in this way. Are you saying Blizzard intended players of one faction to help players of the other faction win in PvP? That's win-trading as far as I can tell.

[Jamirus 0]

Just start investigating names of players that are found to be colluding, investigate them, and ban them if found guilty.  The cartel will get the message real fast with some perma bans handed out. 

Problem solved.

[Zil 0]

@Pottu is a little slow at locking the daily Crater thread today.

 

[Fladrif 14]

The problem is:---》 if there's a monopoly on an item and they keep the price at 25g, they can sell 100g for $17 by trading 4 items. None will catch them.

The bad stuff is: ---》 wPvP is ruined because unlike every other zones my allies won't support me in the fight against the horde.

[Shiamorah 20]

13 minutes ago, nooobieee said:

How is this issue solved by the players? I can't prevent another player on my own faction from healing the opposite faction in this way. Are you saying Blizzard intended players of one faction to help players of the other faction win in PvP? That's win-trading as far as I can tell.

Just because one player doesn't assist you does not mean you can't fix this issue. I have seen plenty of allied players choose to ignore me fighting a Horde and continue on their path. This is not against the rules. An allied player that doesn't help you is not breaking any rules at all. And they aren't healing the enemy team either. They aren't "helping". They are just not doing anything.

[homu2 1]

everything is fine

more people get pissed off and quit because of that crap - faster death to the corrupted server

i personally know like 7 players who went perma offline because they couldn't get pre raid gear and i don't even communicate with players that much

Edited March 8, 2017 by homu2

[nooobieee 3]

7 minutes ago, Shiamorah said:

Just because one player doesn't assist you does not mean you can't fix this issue.

This has nothing to do with not assisting (which is perfectly fine with me). Same faction players are HEALING the opposite faction so they can WIN in PvP. That is win-trading.

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, nooobieee said:

This has nothing to do with not assisting (which is perfectly fine with me). Same faction players are HEALING the opposite faction so they can WIN in PvP. That is win-trading.

I fail to understand this. How can you heal a Horde, as an Alliance? Or how can you heal an Alliance, as a Horde? You can't do that.

[nooobieee 3]

Just now, Shiamorah said:

I fail to understand this. How can you heal a Horde, as an Alliance? Or how can you heal an Alliance, as a Horde? You can't do that.

You sheep them. Sheeped players are healed.

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, nooobieee said:

You sheep them. Sheeped players are healed.

I forgot sheep can't be disrupted. 

[nooobieee 3]

8 minutes ago, Shiamorah said:

I forgot sheep can't be disrupted. 

What's your point? Any help at all is wintrading. Any healing that happens is lost DPS and favors the helped player. Are you ok with people wintrading?

Are you saying it's not good enough to be better then the opposite faction, you have to be so much better so you can overcome the help they receive from your own faction? That's ok with you?

Edited March 8, 2017 by nooobieee

[Shiamorah 20]

2 minutes ago, nooobieee said:

What's your point? Any help at all is wintrading. Any healing that happens is lost DPS and favors the helped player. Are you ok with people wintrading?

Wintrading is a BG/Arena concept. World PvP wintrading doesn't exist. The only exception is honor farming. You make yourself sound silly saying that people camping a mob are "wintrading".

The point is, what is stopping you from doing the same exact thing? Are they abusing or exploiting a function of the game that others cannot? No, of course not. That is why the answer is, and always will be that this is a player issue that can be solved by players.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Shiamorah

[nooobieee 3]

1 minute ago, Shiamorah said:

Wintrading is a BG/Arena concept. World PvP wintrading doesn't exist. The only exception is honor farming. You make yourself sound silly saying that people camping a mob are "wintrading".

The point is, what is stopping you from doing the same exact thing? Are they abusing or exploiting a function of the game that others cannot? No, of course not. That is why the answer is, and always will be that this is a player issue that can be solved by players.

Wintrading is wintrading... whether it's honor (as it is in this case as well) or goods. You make yourself sound silly saying that it's ok for players on your faction to help players on the opposite faction beat you in PvP.

And everyone can also abuse or exploit the PvP system by wintrading in a BG... but I assume you're against that. right?

[RadiantRay 1]

You can't disrupt the casting of a player from the same faction can you?  Just make the devilsaurs unsheepable, that should at least help fix the same faction greifing problem a bit there.

[Shiamorah 20]

1 minute ago, nooobieee said:

Wintrading is wintrading... whether it's honor (as it is in this case as well) or goods. You make yourself sound silly saying that it's ok for players on your faction to help players on the opposite faction beat you in PvP.

And everyone can also abuse or exploit the PvP system by wintrading in a BG... but I assume you're against that. right?

I am against anyone in violation of the Terms of Use. Wintrading in a BG is in violation of the Terms of Use. Camping a mob like a devilsaur is not. You make yourself sound silly by complaining about something that some players are doing, that you could easily do yourself. Especially when it is not in violation of any rules here!

Edited March 8, 2017 by Shiamorah

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, devilsaurPVEerBGwintrader said:

You're exactly correct, there is currently nothing in place preventing other players from feeding into this behavior and continuing to make the server even worse, and some players might even end up doing it who wouldn't normally want to participate in it if it were banned like it should be.

So, a community-created World Event. Sounds good to me! :)

Edited March 8, 2017 by Shiamorah

[nooobieee 3]

2 minutes ago, Shiamorah said:

Camping a mob like a devilsaur is not.

No one asserted camping a mob like a devilsaur is against the rules. That is a strawman. The argument, which you didn't understand at first, is that same faction players are helping opposite faction players win in PvP. That is wintrading, and is most definitely against the rules.

I get Pottu's point that there are insufficient resources to police this, that doesn't make it right or "legal".

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, devilsaurPVEerBGwintrader said:

that does nothing other than to enable the RMT network. Lets keep in mind that DM E farming is nerfed, DM N farming is nerfed, and all open world ore/herb spawns are nerfed in order to "fight the chinese gold farmers"

I'd love to see a citation or any bit of proof relating Devilsaur farming to gold farmers!

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, nooobieee said:

No one asserted camping a mob like a devilsaur is against the rules. That is a strawman. The argument, which you didn't understand at first, is that same faction players are helping opposite faction players win in PvP. That is wintrading, and is most definitely against the rules.

I get Pottu's point that there are insufficient resources to police this, that doesn't make it right or "legal".

Pottu's point is that it is an issue players can actively work against! 

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, devilsaurPVEerBGwintrader said:

you want players who purchased gold to buy their pre-bis to fess up to what they've done? good luck with that

oh yeah and rogue pickpocketing is nerfed. gotta push them devilsaur sets out the door

So, what you are saying is, you are pulling your accusations out of thin air? Right.