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Huskin

Druid Leveling

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Hello all,

I want to play a druid and I know restoration is my only viable spec at 60 for raiding and such. For leveling though is restoration viable or do I need to go feral than re-roll back to restoration at 60? I am also wondering if feral is able to heal 5 mans in healing gear while leveling to 60.

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Anything's viable for leveling. I leveled a holy priest in vanilla. What you want to know is what's efficient for leveling. Resto is very much not efficient for leveling. Even with no resto talents you can heal in dungeons well enough so don't worry about that. The fastest leveling build is feral as it's a nice steady grind with no downtime.

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Feral is by far the best spec for leveling.

 

For the sake of saving money the most of your gear comes in form of quest rewards and you don't have an opportunity to gather both feral/leveling/wpvp gear (int, agi, str, sta, armor) and healing gear (int, spi) at the same time - you choose feral gear. Usually for the same reason you don't respec untill lvl50-60 (depending on personal preferences, sometimes don't respec even at 60) and you spend talent points wisely. And learning resto abilities costs extra gold as well.

 

There is also a problem with combining leveling and healing because of choices you need to make during talent points distribution. For example, at lvl 40 you don't have enough talent points to find a good compromise - going too deep in healing tree will hurt your leveling speed and vice versa.

 

Healing as feral is still possible but kinda bad and inefficient imo. Most of the time you lack important talents and don't even have Nature's Swiftness for critical situations, because feral talents have a higher priority.

 

You still can combine leveling and tanking since the gear and talent difference is not that big.

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Leveling as bear and prioritizing the tanking talents is the best thing to do imo. Cat may kill faster than bear, but cannot take more that 1 target at a time and sometimes you need to heal even after one mob. 

 

With Bear you can no stop killing and get up to 3 targets at a time. Plus you can easily tank dungeons while leveling and get good gear and xp and most of all, server reputation and friends in your list...

 

I would go like this to 40: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#0ZxxhscMdt

 

put thick Hide only when you need to fill talents to go further in the tree, do not prioritize it. 

 

Cat speed is good but it only works outdoors and you will get travel form either way at 30.. so its really just a convenience for 20-30.. I wouldnt spend points there.

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Get Furur in restoration, feral rest of the way.

@guy saying yada yada bear cat what kills what better.......

You shape shift through out the battle as needed.. (remember those furor talents?)

Hit each with instant cast moonfire rejuvenation yourself, swap cat hit one with DoT combo builder and combo finisher, swap bear, frenzied regeneration while auto attacking the one with 3-DoTs on it. Swipe if it is still alive after regeneration falls off.

Once it is dead, stun second mob, swap normal stance, low rank regrowth, moon fire, cat and kill with instant attack damage.

If you are committing to one specific form while solo/leveling/pvp as a druid, roll a different class, preferably the one that resembles the class you only want to impersonate.

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Get Furur in restoration, feral rest of the way.

@guy saying yada yada bear cat what kills what better.......

You shape shift through out the battle as needed.. (remember those furor talents?)

Hit each with instant cast moonfire rejuvenation yourself, swap cat hit one with DoT combo builder and combo finisher, swap bear, frenzied regeneration while auto attacking the one with 3-DoTs on it. Swipe if it is still alive after regeneration falls off.

Once it is dead, stun second mob, swap normal stance, low rank regrowth, moon fire, cat and kill with instant attack damage.

If you are committing to one specific form while solo/leveling/pvp as a druid, roll a different class, preferably the one that resembles the class you only want to impersonate.

 

You have earnd the title "specialist", in every post I look what you write I agree mostly.

I aswell agree to this post. Just had to be said

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Any of you guys have done lvling as first getting the balance talents from the healing spec and then going into resto to complete it? Is it very much slower than feral? If you lvl as it you would have a good starting point for gear at 60.

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Get Furur in restoration, feral rest of the way.

@guy saying yada yada bear cat what kills what better.......

You shape shift through out the battle as needed.. (remember those furor talents?)

Hit each with instant cast moonfire rejuvenation yourself, swap cat hit one with DoT combo builder and combo finisher, swap bear, frenzied regeneration while auto attacking the one with 3-DoTs on it. Swipe if it is still alive after regeneration falls off.

Once it is dead, stun second mob, swap normal stance, low rank regrowth, moon fire, cat and kill with instant attack damage.

If you are committing to one specific form while solo/leveling/pvp as a druid, roll a different class, preferably the one that resembles the class you only want to impersonate.

 

Can balance/resto spec work while leveling? Or is it really that much more inefficient compared to feral?

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I've leveled about 8 druids so far (yeesh). My preference now is to go feral until savage fury & faerie fire, and then pick up omen of clarity and furor last. That's pretty much allowed me to grind mobs (and quests) without drinking once, and using an occasional bandage. By banking my +int gear from quest rewards that are not feral upgrades, I've been able to tank, dps, or heal any dungeon up to level 60. Once you get past BRD, it's good to start working on a real healing set if you want to keep healing dungeons.

 

I've tried other variations, such as getting omen of clarity of furor earlier, and it wound up being less efficient overall. At the very least, you should go feral until cat speed. That's a huge boost to your leveling speed.

Edited by Lorilay

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I leveled as resto. Benefits are that you can regrowth rejuv bear and afk, i like to do Internet shopping etc. it's good for pvp in that no one wants to bother trying to kill a bear at full health (who can pop out with full mana to heal). If you're a cat you will have half health and might get ganked. Bears actually do ok damage and I timed it and it's not really much faster as a cat IMO. You don't have to waste money on cat spells. Cats are kinda ugly, bears ok, nightelves better.

It might be inefficient but it's not that bad, you can try it and if it drives you crazy just respec.

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I'm pretty new to wow but I've leveled a druid to 36. I've always wondered what my rotation should be like in cat form.. I think level 32 you get an actual finisher (can't remember the ability name). But it almost seems useless to use Rip. I try to keep Tiger's Fury up as much as I can and just use Claw. Most mobs don't survive 5 combo points. I experimented with a Rip, Claw, Rip > that useless DoT finisher. But I don't feel like mobs need to be dotted, unless they are healing mobs.

Anyways, some tips for rotations while leveling would be great, I have no problem surviving (usually).

Edited by Easy Waters

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Rip costs 30 Energy and has a 12 second duration.  This basically means that if you're going to be doing a "Rip rotation" you want to orient it around using Rip every 12 seconds regardless of how many Combo Points you've managed to stack onto your target.

So for repeatable use Combo Point builders, you've got Rake which does a 9 second bleed DoT for 40 Energy and Claw for 45 Energy.

Over 12 seconds of Energy recovery, you'll receive 120 Energy ... assuming you aren't Powershifting to generate 40 Energy from Furor on an almost constant basis.

120 Energy over 12 seconds is enough to pay for:
Rip = 30
Rake = 40
Claw = 45
Total: 115 Energy

12 seconds amounts to 8 cycles of 1.5 second global cooldowns, and shifting forms "counts" against the global cooldown.  So with 5/5 Furor you could shift out/shift back to gain 40 Energy to spend on either Rake or Claw, but doing so would essentially "cost" 2 global cooldown cycles to do, meaning that unless you want to go seriously negative on your Energy recovery rate over time, you're stuck with doing no more than 2 Powershifts for Energy from Furor every 12 seconds due to the constraint of fitting that many global cooldowns inside of a 12 second window ... which can be done, don't get me wrong, but it takes WORK in order to get the pattern down.

In the simplest possible context, for a much more Brain Dead rotation using Rip, try simply do the following:

Rake: 40 Energy, 9 second bleed DoT
Rip: 30 Energy, 12 second bleed DoT
Claw: 45 Energy
Repeat

Basic idead is to use Rake after the bleed DoT expires and to use Rip after its previous use expires so you aren't "wasting" damage.  In sustained duration fights, this will give you the most efficient bleed DoT performance that can be supported by use of Rake and Rip.  The benefits of using a Rake/Rip/Claw(x?) rotation is that if your target decides to run, you've already got them DoTed (and bleeding out) for that You Are Already Dead, You Just Haven't Gotten The Memo Yet performance profile.

But yeah, if you're going to use Rip, do it on a 12 (or so) second rotation cycle.  Figure out how many Cat Skills you want to make use of during those 12 seconds (including Rip itself) and that'll tell you what your "optimal" rotation is going to be when using Rip.

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When leveling you probably have barely one full finishing move before the mob is dead. That's a lot of detail for something that wouldn't ever be used, except maybe dungeon bosses. 

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2 hours ago, Roxanne Flowers said:

12 seconds amounts to 8 cycles of 1.5 second global cooldowns, and shifting forms "counts" against the global cooldown.

GCD in cat form is 1 sec i think

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Ok so my theory of tiger's fury and claw is probably the most efficient. Unless elite mobs I will stick to my usual rotation.

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On 12/15/2016 at 0:27 AM, Lorilay said:

I've leveled about 8 druids so far (yeesh). My preference now is to go feral until savage fury & faerie fire, and then pick up omen of clarity and furor last. That's pretty much allowed me to grind mobs (and quests) without drinking once, and using an occasional bandage. By banking my +int gear from quest rewards that are not feral upgrades, I've been able to tank, dps, or heal any dungeon up to level 60. Once you get past BRD, it's good to start working on a real healing set if you want to keep healing dungeons.

 

I've tried other variations, such as getting omen of clarity of furor earlier, and it wound up being less efficient overall. At the very least, you should go feral until cat speed. That's a huge boost to your leveling speed.

Hey you! I always enjoy ready your druid posts. 

Anyways, you sparked a question of mine. I have always wondered if I should not invest in furor right off. I always have because it makes it easier to hop in a fight with a demo shout and enrage to kill and when you get cat it helps get off a claw or rip right away or popping between both forms for utility. However I hate waiting til mid 20s for feline swiftness. So far I'm currently maxing my furor out after getting charge and it is a nice change. Now my question is, should I go for shapeshifting in balance or just feral rest the way? I feel like 30% reduced cost is just too nice to pass up while leveling.

Also, I've seen trees taking 5/5 feral instinct and always wondered why? I like the 2 impact and 3 feral instinct. I havent experimented with 5/5 but with 3/5 as long as I am careful I have no problem getting behind mobs. And the extended bash time has saved me more then a few times.

Edited by Easy Waters

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2 minutes ago, Easy Waters said:

Ok so my theory of tiger's fury and claw is probably the most efficient. Unless elite mobs I will stick to my usual rotation.

Depends on what your goal is.

For most people, the goal is to do the maximum quantity of damage in the least amount of time (kill it fast).  That tends to lead to certain "inefficiencies" of turning resources (like Energy) into damage output/throughput, but those factors are tolerated simply because the desired end result is achieved of minimizing time spent in combat.

Tiger's Fury costs 30 Energy and adds damage to all of your attacks for 6 seconds.
Claw costs 45 Energy and adds damage to one attack and adds 1 Combo Point.
Rake costs 40 Energy and adds damage

If you're not really interested in using Rip as a Finisher (because you don't expect things to survive for 8-12 seconds after using Rip), you can go with Ferocious Bite instead for "instant damage" but that will cost you ALL of your current Energy to do, even if you've got an Omen of Clarity proc up.

To REALLY game all this out with Theorycrafting, you'll want to have an opening strategy and a sustained combat rotation.

So for opening, if max damage in the shortest amount of time is your goal, you want to open from Prowl.  Before you attack, use Tiger's Fury so that it will buff your Ravage (or Pounce, take your pick) damage. You can even write a macro that will check to see if you have Tiger's Fury active on you so as to do a "double click on one button" for activating Tiger's Fury before using Ravage or Pounce while Tiger's Fury is up.  Depending on the timing between use of Tiger's Fury and Ravage/Pounce, you'll have 30-50 Energy available to you and a scant couple of seconds (or so) left on Tiger's Fury.  You then switch into your sustained combat rotation.

Assuming you aren't Powershifting to convert Mana (shapeshifting cost) into Energy via the Furor talent, you're going to be limited to a 20 Energy per 2 seconds rate of recovery.  Tiger's Fury consumes 30 Energy and lasts 6 seconds, so if you're using Tiger's Fury as soon as it comes off cooldown, that's costing you 30 Energy every 6 seconds, leaving you only 30 Energy recovered to do other things with during those 6 second cycles.  Note that 2 Tiger's Fury durations matches up to 1 Rip duration.

So assuming you're fighting something that Bleeds, you can do the following rotation as Energy recovery permits.

  • Opener: Prowl . Tiger's Fury (30) . Ravage (60) or Pounce (50)
  • Bleed Rotation (costs 130 Energy over 12-13 seconds): Tiger's Fury (30) (when not currently active) . Rake (40) . Tiger's Fury (30) (when not currently active) . Rip (30) . Repeat
  • Non-Bleed Rotation (costs 75 Energy over 6 seconds): Tiger's Fury (30) (when not currently active) . Claw (45) . Repeat ... until ... Ferocious Bite (35) to Kill and/or 5 Combo Points on target
  • Non-Bleed Powershifting Rotation (approximately 6 seconds): Tiger's Fury (30) . Claw (45) . Shift to Caster . Shift to Cat . Wait for 1 tick of +20 Energy to recover . Repeat ... until ... Ferocious Bite (35) to Kill and/or 5 Combo Points on target

Powershifting to spend Mana to gain 40 Energy from 5/5 Furor will allow you to add extra Claw attacks into the rotation, but you'll have to wait 2 seconds after shifting back into Cat Form to recover the extra 5 Energy you'll need (above 40) in order to be able to Claw.  This can easily turn the Non-Bleed Rotation from being net recovery negative into being sustainable (at the cost of Mana for Powershifting).  The whole Powershifting rotation takes about 6 seconds or so to complete, which then dovetails nicely into the duration of Tiger's Fury so as to keep maximum uptime on that buff.

Note that Ferocious Bite is natively "more efficient" than converting Energy into Damage than Tiger's Fury is, so using Tiger's Fury to buff Ferocious Bite only makes sense if you use Tiger's Fury, wait 2-4 seconds to recover 20-40 Energy and then use Ferocious Bite to maximize damage output.  However, if TIME is a luxury you don't have, use Ferocious Bite without having Tiger's Fury up.

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17 minutes ago, Roxanne Flowers said:

Depends on what your goal is.

For most people, the goal is to do the maximum quantity of damage in the least amount of time (kill it fast).  That tends to lead to certain "inefficiencies" of turning resources (like Energy) into damage output/throughput, but those factors are tolerated simply because the desired end result is achieved of minimizing time spent in combat.

Tiger's Fury costs 30 Energy and adds damage to all of your attacks for 6 seconds.
Claw costs 45 Energy and adds damage to one attack and adds 1 Combo Point.
Rake costs 40 Energy and adds damage

If you're not really interested in using Rip as a Finisher (because you don't expect things to survive for 8-12 seconds after using Rip), you can go with Ferocious Bite instead for "instant damage" but that will cost you ALL of your current Energy to do, even if you've got an Omen of Clarity proc up.

To REALLY game all this out with Theorycrafting, you'll want to have an opening strategy and a sustained combat rotation.

So for opening, if max damage in the shortest amount of time is your goal, you want to open from Prowl.  Before you attack, use Tiger's Fury so that it will buff your Ravage (or Pounce, take your pick) damage. You can even write a macro that will check to see if you have Tiger's Fury active on you so as to do a "double click on one button" for activating Tiger's Fury before using Ravage or Pounce while Tiger's Fury is up.  Depending on the timing between use of Tiger's Fury and Ravage/Pounce, you'll have 30-50 Energy available to you and a scant couple of seconds (or so) left on Tiger's Fury.  You then switch into your sustained combat rotation.

Assuming you aren't Powershifting to convert Mana (shapeshifting cost) into Energy via the Furor talent, you're going to be limited to a 20 Energy per 2 seconds rate of recovery.  Tiger's Fury consumes 30 Energy and lasts 6 seconds, so if you're using Tiger's Fury as soon as it comes off cooldown, that's costing you 30 Energy every 6 seconds, leaving you only 30 Energy recovered to do other things with during those 6 second cycles.  Note that 2 Tiger's Fury durations matches up to 1 Rip duration.

So assuming you're fighting something that Bleeds, you can do the following rotation as Energy recovery permits.

  • Opener: Prowl . Tiger's Fury (30) . Ravage (60) or Pounce (50)
  • Bleed Rotation (costs 130 Energy over 12-13 seconds): Tiger's Fury (30) (when not currently active) . Rake (40) . Tiger's Fury (30) (when not currently active) . Rip (30) . Repeat
  • Non-Bleed Rotation (costs 75 Energy over 6 seconds): Tiger's Fury (30) (when not currently active) . Claw (45) . Repeat ... until ... Ferocious Bite (35) to Kill and/or 5 Combo Points on target
  • Non-Bleed Powershifting Rotation (approximately 6 seconds): Tiger's Fury (30) . Claw (45) . Shift to Caster . Shift to Cat . Wait for 1 tick of +20 Energy to recover . Repeat ... until ... Ferocious Bite (35) to Kill and/or 5 Combo Points on target

Powershifting to spend Mana to gain 40 Energy from 5/5 Furor will allow you to add extra Claw attacks into the rotation, but you'll have to wait 2 seconds after shifting back into Cat Form to recover the extra 5 Energy you'll need (above 40) in order to be able to Claw.  This can easily turn the Non-Bleed Rotation from being net recovery negative into being sustainable (at the cost of Mana for Powershifting).  The whole Powershifting rotation takes about 6 seconds or so to complete, which then dovetails nicely into the duration of Tiger's Fury so as to keep maximum uptime on that buff.

Note that Ferocious Bite is natively "more efficient" than converting Energy into Damage than Tiger's Fury is, so using Tiger's Fury to buff Ferocious Bite only makes sense if you use Tiger's Fury, wait 2-4 seconds to recover 20-40 Energy and then use Ferocious Bite to maximize damage output.  However, if TIME is a luxury you don't have, use Ferocious Bite without having Tiger's Fury up.

For the most part I will ravage my opponent as an opener. I don't maintain 100% uptime on tigers fury and being level 28 I don't powershift. I might just try out fury/rip and auto att. Since two furys fit in one rip it may be viable. As I said I am new to this game as a whole so it is fun experimenting and discussing with experienced droods! 

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Don't look to me for Feral experience, I play Moonkin.  I'm just looking at the costs and rates of recovery and figuring "what can I do with these resources in the time allowed?" and just theorycrafting from there based on the constraints.

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2 hours ago, Roxanne Flowers said:

Don't look to me for Feral experience, I play Moonkin.  I'm just looking at the costs and rates of recovery and figuring "what can I do with these resources in the time allowed?" and just theorycrafting from there based on the constraints.

I prowl the forums, you're very knowledgeable so I respect your post! :P 

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@Easy Waters I found using Shred to be the most efficient way of killing mobs, if you have Improved Shred talent.

Here's the video:

https://youtu.be/CAmdtw1-tho

Missed some autoattacks there because of facing the wrong way, but it still is the fastest way to kill mobs IMO, and if done right you won't even skip any autoattacks.

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