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cryofsorrow

PvE Shadow Priest Basics

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My numbers were probably off, that post was early in the morning.
And concerning the DMF trinket; I haven't managed to proc Blue Dragon out of Mind Flay so it's safe to say it sucks for Shadow since that's your main spell casted regularly. Of course, if you are extremely lucky you should use it instead of Shard of the Scale.

Thank Haitharn, Deathlace and all the rest for the small errors and mistypes in the original post. I appreciate such nitpicking, don't mind it at all. Edited.

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Hello everyone and thank you for trying to make a proper ShadowPriest thread for all of us interested.

I just started playing WoW after almost 10 years of absence.
I decided to roll a Dwarf Priest solely for making him Shadow Priest.

I litterally have no idea about the class and atm i am trying  to figure out how i am going to play the toon on max level.

After reading this guide but also other guides written in the long forgotten past i still remain a little confused about some things around the class.

For example i cannot fully understand if i have to put 2-3 or 5 points to Shadow Focus. In some cases people say put 2 points and in other cases they talk about 3 or 5.

In any case although i realise that it is impossible to have a Talent build that suits both PvP and PvE sadly this is what i wanna do, as in i wanna do both.

I will post to yous all a talent build that i was thinking of following, obviously you won't agree but if you don't mind i would like to read some constructive comments about it in order to make my mind wether i have to drop some talents for some others.

Looking forward to reading your replies mateys and once again thank you to the person who made this guide here and helped me a lot to realise a few things about the Shadow Priest class.

 

This is the link for the build i was thinking about

http://prnt.sc/dyu4ra

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On 22.01.2017 г. at 5:35 PM, staydigital said:

Hello everyone and thank you for trying to make a proper ShadowPriest thread for all of us interested.

I just started playing WoW after almost 10 years of absence.
I decided to roll a Dwarf Priest solely for making him Shadow Priest.

I litterally have no idea about the class and atm i am trying  to figure out how i am going to play the toon on max level.

After reading this guide but also other guides written in the long forgotten past i still remain a little confused about some things around the class.

For example i cannot fully understand if i have to put 2-3 or 5 points to Shadow Focus. In some cases people say put 2 points and in other cases they talk about 3 or 5.

In any case although i realise that it is impossible to have a Talent build that suits both PvP and PvE sadly this is what i wanna do, as in i wanna do both.

I will post to yous all a talent build that i was thinking of following, obviously you won't agree but if you don't mind i would like to read some constructive comments about it in order to make my mind wether i have to drop some talents for some others.

Looking forward to reading your replies mateys and once again thank you to the person who made this guide here and helped me a lot to realise a few things about the Shadow Priest class.

 

This is the link for the build i was thinking about

http://prnt.sc/dyu4ra

I believe you need only 6% spell hit total for PvP (i.e. 3/5 shadow focus) but that'll hinder your PvE performance due to high mana cost on your spells and regular resists. You can counter that with more spell hit on your gear but at the cost of spell power. The missing 15% mana regen while casting due to no Meditation in the build you linked I personally don't like. It's just 15% but as Spriest you'll need every bit of mana regain you can get. I guess the rest should be okay if you'll do PvE and PvP. And as Alliance and having Blessing of Salvation may be you can draw 2 points from Silent Resolve and put them into Martyrdom since it's really good for PvP.

Your best bet would be to ask some PvP Spriest what build does he use to do both.

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It's a big issue with playing PvE and PvP with same build as shadow. In PvP build you want to skip Shadow Affinity and Silent Resolve because it's useless for PvP and it costs you 8 talent points. However with out it you may overaggro without even using Mind Blast at all.

This is the build I use for PvP. I use it for clearing dungeons aswell. But without tankiness you won't be able to do much with it. http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bxzGshZZVMGdctRt
 

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On 28/11/2016 at 11:55 AM, cryofsorrow said:

6. Stat priority

Spell Hit > Spell Power > Mana per 5 sec. > Intellect > Spell Crit >= Spirit

Spell Hit - You will need 6% from gear to get hit capped if you are specced 5/5 Shadow Focus which gives you 10% already. However, even then you will have 1% chance to miss a spell. Getting maximum hit is your biggest priority because shadow priests have big mana issues especially on longer fights and one resisted spell = mana down the drain. Keep around spell hit items even if you're not using them and keep yourself hitcapped.
Spell Power - The more the better. Start stacking this after you get hit capped.
Mana per 5 sec. - Really good stat to have but don't overdo it in exchange of spell power. Use Mp5/SP mixed items on long fights.
Intellect - Nice stat for short fights where mana regen or mp5 is not that important as it boosts your mana pool and spell crit.
Spell Crit - Almost useless stat on shadow priests. The only spell it affects is Mind Blast which is mana inefficient and causes extra threat. Also, shadow priests are stuck with the 1.5 multiplier when it comes to crits and there's no way to improve it by talents.
Spirit - You shouldn't aim for this stat because you're always casting and the 15% mana regeneration from Meditation talent is pretty low due to lacking Spirit stat on most of your BiS gear.
 

Hey guys, does anyone have stats weight ?

I have loads of items as a Main SPriest raider and I'd like to know how much is worth 1MP5 vs Spell power vs Spirit etc.

That would help me a lot, thanks

 

EDIT: My question concerns long fights mainly :)

Edited by Lawinn

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Just pretend spirit isn't an actual stat. 

Once you get to a certain point in PvE raiding, aim for your full BiS damage pieces. If you are fully consumed, buffed, and using dark tunes and major manas on CD, and you are going OOM, start swapping out damage gear for mp5 to see you through the fight. If your guild struggles to clear things at a reasonable rate then stop using mindblast and downrank on spells if you have to. 

 

For MC and BWL, I am able to use full DPS gear and use mindblast on CD for every fight except for Nef and Ragnaros (Rag is really close). Get in bed with a Druid, because innervates are swell. 

Edited by Prancinglid
Cats

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On 11.3.2017 at 2:19 PM, Lawinn said:

Hey guys, does anyone have stats weight ?

I have loads of items as a Main SPriest raider and I'd like to know how much is worth 1MP5 vs Spell power vs Spirit etc.

That would help me a lot, thanks

 

EDIT: My question concerns long fights mainly :)

Don't ask him that kind of questions , he will answer you that you gotta Wand instead building up Intellect.

I wonder why would anyone take this Guide serious at all.

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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On 11.03.2017 г. at 3:19 PM, Lawinn said:

and I'd like to know how much is worth 1MP5 vs Spell power vs Spirit etc.

Sorry, I personally am not the best theorycrafter and I don't think I can make such calculation. That, and I'm really lazy when it comes to such things. Prancinglid's post however is how I look on the stats weights; it depends on how fast you and your guild is killing a boss. About Spirit: it's just a bonus stat and not something you should aim for at all. I guess the only time Spirit comes into play is if you have a for sure Innervate that's dedicated to you.

And I'm pretty sure I made this quite obvious in the first post - this thread is just the very basics, the way you build your gear for different fights depends mainly on how you and your guild do them.

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On 19/03/2017 at 10:24 AM, killerduki said:

Don't ask him that kind of questions , he will answer you that you gotta Wand instead building up Intellect.

I wonder why would anyone take this Guide serious at all.

/Kind regards Killerduki

Shut up Killer, I don't want to see any of your trash post anymore.

You are an annoying useless troll and nobody cares about you, thanks.

On 16/03/2017 at 11:21 PM, Prancinglid said:

Just pretend spirit isn't an actual stat. 

Once you get to a certain point in PvE raiding, aim for your full BiS damage pieces. If you are fully consumed, buffed, and using dark tunes and major manas on CD, and you are going OOM, start swapping out damage gear for mp5 to see you through the fight. If your guild struggles to clear things at a reasonable rate then stop using mindblast and downrank on spells if you have to. 

 

For MC and BWL, I am able to use full DPS gear and use mindblast on CD for every fight except for Nef and Ragnaros (Rag is really close). Get in bed with a Druid, because innervates are swell. 

Alrighty thanks, well it's mainly for rings/trinkets and also R10 Head+Shoulders VS Jin'do's helm and Silithus MP5 (over intellect/spellpower) + hit shoulders, or for instance ZG Boots vs 1% ones (at 13% hit atm instead of 16).

13 hours ago, cryofsorrow said:

Sorry, I personally am not the best theorycrafter and I don't think I can make such calculation. That, and I'm really lazy when it comes to such things. Prancinglid's post however is how I look on the stats weights; it depends on how fast you and your guild is killing a boss. About Spirit: it's just a bonus stat and not something you should aim for at all. I guess the only time Spirit comes into play is if you have a for sure Innervate that's dedicated to you.

And I'm pretty sure I made this quite obvious in the first post - this thread is just the very basics, the way you build your gear for different fights depends mainly on how you and your guild do them.

Yea well in ZG/MC I am considering to stop Mind Blasting on trash, it drains too much mana and 1 Superior/Combat Mana pot everytime it's up, while clearing trashs, isn't even enough in general !

Do you guys happen to have a PoV SP Raiding video just for the sake of Science ? :P

Edited by Lawinn

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On 3/22/2017 at 6:23 AM, Lawinn said:

Do you guys happen to have a PoV SP Raiding video just for the sake of Science ? :P

What are you trying to figure out exactly? 

I am not the most knowledgable player when it comes to playing shadowpriest, but I do strive to be efficient in PvE when it comes to providing maximum DPS as a raid support class. There are lots of tricks to maximizing your DPS in raids, but if you are just trying to make it through a fight, consider what I said in the above post.

As I said, always aim for doing the most damage by using your damage gear. If you go OOM, start switching out damage gear for mp5 gear. Use r10 shoulders and helm in place of hexxers cover and blackwing cabaal, shard of the scale instead of a non mp5 trinket, jeklines opaline talisman instead of choker of the firelord or the DMF neck, etc. 

If you aren't in a guild where this gear level substitutions isn't possible/realistic, downrank on spells and don't use mindblast (your most mana inefficient shadow weaving spell). 

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On 3/19/2017 at 10:24 AM, killerduki said:

Don't ask him that kind of questions , he will answer you that you gotta Wand instead building up Intellect.

I wonder why would anyone take this Guide serious at all.

/Kind regards Killerduki

99% of guides for shadow priests are done by people who didn't do more than leveling as shadow, this one ain't exception.

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2 hours ago, chase_le_mofo said:

99% of guides for shadow priests are done by people who didn't do more than leveling as shadow, this one ain't exception.

I am playing shadow priest for nearly 12 years .

Sorry to hurt your feeling.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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Which is better if you dont have the tear yet : Talisman of Emph. Power or The zg trinket? How much average spell damage does each of those trinkets achieve during a let's say 3 minute fight? Some ppl say the talisman is better cause it does not lose spell dmg after casting spells.

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On 4/23/2017 at 0:35 PM, killerduki said:

I am playing shadow priest for nearly 12 years .

Sorry to hurt your feeling.

/Kind regards Killerduki

12 years and still bad?
damn son

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On 5/3/2017 at 10:02 AM, Jongers said:

Which is better if you dont have the tear yet : Talisman of Emph. Power or The zg trinket? How much average spell damage does each of those trinkets achieve during a let's say 3 minute fight? Some ppl say the talisman is better cause it does not lose spell dmg after casting spells.

Simple math says the ZG trinket is better on average for healing: inconsistent casting, burst healing, using slow cast spells, and still usable twice in a 3 minute fight. The average healing bonus is 204 if you were to use the 12 globals necessary to end the buff and higher if you don't.

For spell damage the talisman of ephemeral power is drastically better unless you cast 3 or less spells in the 20 sec. Its also usable 3 times if the fight ran a little long

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On 5/5/2017 at 2:01 AM, Whitewolf said:

Simple math says the ZG trinket is better on average for healing: inconsistent casting, burst healing, using slow cast spells, and still usable twice in a 3 minute fight. The average healing bonus is 204 if you were to use the 12 globals necessary to end the buff and higher if you don't.

For spell damage the talisman of ephemeral power is drastically better unless you cast 3 or less spells in the 20 sec. Its also usable 3 times if the fight ran a little long

 

What makes you think ToEP is "drastically better" for spell damage?

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3 hours ago, Prancinglid said:

 

What makes you think ToEP is "drastically better" for spell damage?

You quoted it. In reality after thinking about it, it really would depend on how long the fight lasts. At equal number of activations, the ZG trinket would be better. If the fight runs long and you can activate ToEP a 3rd time, it's better.

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Correct. ToEP is only better if you can use it more times than you could use ZHC. For an spriest, you can expect to get in 8 attacks (assuming you are popping it and going into your rotation of SWP> MB> MF>MF>MB etc.). If you do the math it averages to around 150 spell damage bonus for those 8 attacks. ToEP is a flat 175, but because of the shorter duration, you can expect to only get around 6 attacks from a standard rotation in. If you do the averages for ToEP that includes the 2 attacks you DONT get a spell damage benefit from, then the 175 flat spell damage bonus is actually averaged down to a 131 spell damage bonus.

If you have both ZHC and ToEP, you would want to use both for fights lasting under 60 seconds (generally speaking)

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i'd like to get some thoughts about some things.

i'm planning to respec (current talents: http://realmplayers.com/Talents.aspx#bxG0sZZxrgpctot )

i dont wanna lose silence, i know it costs me 3 talent points but i pvp often enough to not drop it. but if i were to drop it i was considering this:

http://realmplayers.com/Talents.aspx#bxT0sVZZxMgzctot

mostly i am not sure how good improved mind blast is in aq. i dont ever use it in aq due to long fights. and i'm not sure if i should talent around bwl.

 

second i am looking for some stats weight math and i cant find anything. i did my own as good as i could and i seem to do 30% mindblast dmg if i do use it. thus 1% crit seems equal to about 3 +dmg on my gear for those fights. making mishundare better than hexxer's cover by a small margin (35+2%+stats > 41). considering the amount of crit heavy caster loot in aq and especially naxx i am trying to figure out just how good or bad crit really is.

specifically: is brimstone staff (loatheb) better than end of dreams (grobbulus)+av offhand? it seems eye of sapphiron+eod would be bis.

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Not sure where to start on trying to help you out, tbh. To me it sounds like you are interested in two different things that are conflicting. In short, I don't think you should even consider looking at crit unless you are wanting to min/max your damage. If that is the case, then you shouldn't be considering not using Mindblast in raids (yes, even in AQ), and thinking about NOT taking improved mindblast as a talent (the one spell we use that can crit). It seems counter intuitive. 

Going 5/5 in imp mindblast IS the best spec (based on alternatives) for maximizing your damage. People have the idea that 4 points is only necessary because a 6 second Mindblast CD is all you need since you are going to be mindflaying for 6 seconds. However, unless you are extremely focused and have extremely low ping, you aren't lining up your spell rotations with robot precision. You also need to take into account the part of your rotation where you reapply SWP. You aren't going to be able to mindflay, apply SWP and wait for a global, and then mindflay again and try to clip your channel after the next global ends to mindblast again. You are better off reapplying SWP, doing a single mindflay and waiting the 1 second spamming your mindblast so you can get it off ASAP. Also consider fights where you move around a lot (ex: satura), get spell pushback (ex: vael/firemaw), and quick single target switches (ex: razorgore, cthun) - all of these fights benefit from being able to Mindblast as often as possible.

 

 

 

Do you want to do the most damage you possibly can, or do you want to do less damage but have more stats for survivability and mana sustain? 

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I would never go back to 5/5 ImpMB. I am mostly considering losing it completely due to severe Mana issues in AQ's long fights or keeping my current 4/5.

If my raid has a good day and doesn't play like untrained monkey I don't even need mana potions to MB on cooldown on some fights in BWL. But as I said this doesn't seem possible in current progression where i skip MB more often than not - at least it doesn't make up for 30% of my total dps as it does in stationary BWL fights. MB can help me get much needed Spirit Tap procs by killing tentacles at C'Thun (also Razorgore as you said). But then again. do i need it to be on 5,5/6 sec cd?

bottom line is maximized dps dont mean anything if i have to flay rank 1 halfway through the fight until rune/pot come off cd. also theoretically how good is crit in an ideal MB friendly encounter like broodlord, ebonroc, flamegor. is ~3 spellpower realistic?

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I would say anywhere from 2-5 SP can be equal to one crit depending on numerous factors. You would need a gear/DPS spreadsheet (calculator) to get an accurate number that accounts for your gear set, consumables, world buffs, talents, etc. 

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