The Devilsaur monopoly.

[Shayss 43]

1 hour ago, sorrana said:

3. you are just too lazy to gather people and do somethign against it, thats why complaining to GM's seems easy.

This.

[Morathe 5]

39 minutes ago, nooobieee said:

I'm glad you agree with me and I hope you join me in calling for banning people engaging in this abusive wintrading.

I can assure you that this kind of thing never happened in a confrontation where it would matter. Anyway mind controlling a guy and thus preventing him from moving/attacking/healing/buffing/re-positioning just to toss him a heal is HARDLY helping. I saw this happen maybe once and guy got flamed to death by his friends cause ultimately it led to his opponent getting a favorable position and his cd's back and winning a fight so it never happened again. But thats my experience thus far.

I'm sure every anti-un'goro person knows ins and outs of un'goro way better and use arbitrary argumentation to strengthen their case any way they can so yea...

Edited March 14, 2017 by Morathe

[nooobieee 3]

Just now, Morathe said:

I can assure you that this kind of thing never happened in a confrontation where it would matter.

No you can't.

But regardless you agree it is abuse and so should have no issue with calling it what it is and holding people accountable.

[Morathe 5]

4 minutes ago, nooobieee said:

No you can't.

But regardless you agree it is abuse and so should have no issue with calling it what it is and holding people accountable.

You know something more about what I can or what I can't more than I do? 

I'd agree with you and call it pure bannable offense if mind control was instant and not prevent you from moving or acting freely but the only instance I know its used is to heal up an opposing faction friend after a duel. Anyway I'm not gonna aid your case. If you're on a witch hunt go and gather your evidence and build your own case. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Morathe

[nooobieee 3]

1 minute ago, Morathe said:

You know something more about what I can or what I can't more than I do? 

No, but perhaps I know more about what you should or shouldn't. You tell me.

[Morathe 5]

9 minutes ago, nooobieee said:

No, but perhaps I know more about what you should or shouldn't. You tell me.

Read the edit.

P.S maybe... but doubtful cause so far ToU is on my side and everyone participating in Un'goro control. Its on your end to push for a change in ToU... after you filter out anti-RP factor that it induces (irrelevant cause not rp-pvp realm) or personal failure (cause not part of the club). Also try to spare me "fair-play" argumentation like it was some chivalrous tournament we play here. 

I honestly lol at people telling me that the only reason we're in control is because 90% of the server consider that against ToU and don't want to take part in it. Truth is people don't have enough connections, friends and organization power to step in and rival us. Thats the sole reason we have this period blood here. Cause people can't compete. Calling it "win trading" or "against ToU" or "cheating"... heck even "HACKING" derp is obvious smoke screen. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Morathe

[Morathe 5]

28 minutes ago, devilsaurPVEerBGwintrader said:

"friends" lmao here we go again

 

why do you want to prove this point so much? will it become true if you pin it to your wish board?

What am I trying to prove? I ain't trying to prove anything. Reality proves everything we need. I'm only breaking it down for those resistant... why? call it a charity in the first instance but also because I hate people that call for GM police everytime they are getting wrecked (one way or another).

P.S and yes they are not my "friends" if you mistook it for a IRL meaning of the word. But i know gaming is a dangerous deal... mixes and confuses stuff for people. Oh? You tried to hurt me... right, my bad. Hahaha:P "Bitch please" 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Morathe

[Syanis 2]

I just see the usual people playing on a pvp server and complaining about griefing and pvp mindset things being done. Play on a pve server if you want to feel protected and anti grief things.

[Slicy 11]

I have great news for OP and his frends !

I heard in this new game you can get dinos without needing to tag, pvp, kill, loot and skin :

You are saved guys ! Let's hope dinos will now be more at peace and reproduce a lot !

[DaRealGraypube 0]

There  are other, lucrative  ways to make gold. Why do you think then,  that hardly any Chinese are ever down there?

Wouldn't China just be there 24/7? 

If you don't have any spineless ass-kissing dweebs , oops i meant  "friends," to help you ruin the purpose of the game over some stupid leather, there are still better ways to make money. 

- The Black Lotus Prince

 

[Nosleep 4]

22 hours ago, Morathe said:

And as such if you'd win trade on bgs you'd get banned no matter the amount of it cause it the long run its hurting the system the same. The is one fundamental difference why win trading on bgs HAS to be banned. Thats because normal teams can't compete for honor with win traders, no matter how good/geared/experienced people are they can't compete with pure win trade teams. 

P.S win trading as a term is tied to honor system for the reasons you should be able to comprehend by now. Don't mix the terms if you want to have any proper convo here. Un'goro is based on communicating with opposing faction so I understand why you're confused. 

That is a completely false argument.

Win trading is not just against the rules cos of its effects on the ranking system.... its against the rules because of the principle behind what they are doing.

Thats why even if u do it 1 time a week it will still be cheating. People who cheat are not only cheating if they damage things.. they are cheating by their action or more accurately, the principle behind their action, not how much they do it or where they do it.

Otherwise, we would just tell ppl to win trade more to combat the win traders (in game solution, which is why its not a valid argument, btw) .. so then its a fair playing field where all can win trade.. but ofc thats silly.. because its the principle behind win trading thats bad.. not just the effects.

people who cheat are hated because of the principle behind cheating... not just the effects!  

shame on you for not knowing that.

 

The fact that you think principles have no relevance when deciding if something should be allowed or not is very telling, but often people with no principles think they dont matter at all.

 

MC'ing enemy faction players while they duel with someone on your faction, so  they can be healed by another person on your faction, and having that favor, or favors like it, returned, is exactly the same in principle as win trading.

if u fail to see that, then it is you who have no clue what the point is.

you think i care about devilsaur leather monopoly's? no!! im not on elysium, remember??

i care if people used cheating tactics.. no matter how big or small the gain. and no matter in or out of bg's. cheating is cheating no matter where you are!

if  ppl dont use actions that are in principle the same as win trading or any other form of cheating.. then i dont care how much gold ppl get or what alliances ppl form.

ONLY when ppl actively engage in pvp battles to help the other faction by sheep/MC/heals etc with them favors returned, is it the same as win trading..  but without tactics like that, there is no issue. get it yet?

 

edit: 'blizz rules'' is not valid, this is a pirate server with modified rules.  also .. ''show me the quote in ToU'' is a very poor argument, I am asking to have this discussed precisely because it is not in them yet.. and i think it should be discussed to see if it should. new rules are made all the time.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Nosleep

[Daxtar 1]

On 3/14/2017 at 7:13 AM, Arxon said:

Cross faction communication was always against the rules in retail.  Even though it was possible via skype/discord/multiple accounts.  It was still against the rules because it created an environment other than intended.

I think the simple fix to prevent something such as a monopoly from forming if it seriously is a problem (I have no idea I've never been to Un'Goro crater) would be to add a debuff to Devilsaur making so that you can only get so many per time-frame.  Thus forcing you to come back at a later time if you want more.

Hell, if it got to be too bad and I was running the server then I'd just open up a few more spawn locations in diff areas of the world.  Sure, the value would drop but hey they deserve it for forcing it to come to such measures.

So, because of a bunch of crybabies, on a blizzlike realm, you want it to not be a blizzlike realm? are you out of your mind? hahahahaha

[Nosleep 4]

7 minutes ago, Daxtar said:

So, because of a bunch of crybabies, on a blizzlike realm, you want it to not be a blizzlike realm? are you out of your mind? hahahahaha

 

This isnt a blizz like realm, they say they want it to be blizz like.. but they change and modify the rules as they see fit.. war effort is a perfect example...yes they have their reason for doing it and i am not attacking them reasons, im just saying it is not a blizz like realm, its a modified realm.

 

btw, i dont want the changes the guy you quoted was on about... i dont think the farming and monopoly is bad, im just saying this isnt a blizz like realm :)

 

edit: this was my ''one hundered an eleventh birthday'' sorry :P

Edited March 15, 2017 by Nosleep

[Ragward 2]

I think there are limits to where you consider this "blizzlike" or not , Blizzlike quote from community managers "Mcing people out of BG is legit because it was in retail" "afking in BG's and not ressing against premades"  bannable because you have to actively take part - fair enough Im not disputing this but at the end of the day its whether you want the pvp scene to be alive and well from both factions on this server I can personally attest alot of horde players dont que to bg's anymore purely because of the MC/premade rules you are enforcing , im sure the pvp scene wont die from either side but it is dwindling slightly if you can mc 7 people out of a WSG and only face 3 vs 10 + adding deserter buffs to players how is that not classed as griefing. "Yes we can do it aswell but currently very VERY Challenging" this leads me to my next point  Over the course that raiding has occured on horde/alliance side I dont know the exact numbers and we could just peg this on RNG but the horde have mabe 6-10 Weapons from mc/ony where as the alliance have a GREAT advantage over the horde with the ammount they have received now this could just be RNG but I find it highly irregular doing 6 ony kills without seeing a weapon drop we have had 6xgrimoires once again this could just be bad RNG but it seems very DODGY to me can any other horde/alliance guilds confirm or deny this I am curious to see what the actual numbers are and if there is a big discrepancy can this be looked into?

[TTL 6]

On 3/8/2017 at 10:50 AM, Myllz said:

It wasn't allowed on the same account, but it was allowed if you had two accounts.  Plenty of people did it, there was no rule against having multiple accounts for this very reason.

The second one you keep repeating without any substance.  Explain how they're circumventing the communication.  Forums and cross-faction communication have existed since the game launched in 2004.

The fact in 2004 most gamers didn't play $15 a month game yet alone $30 for two accounts. Second unless you actually had two accounts you would never communicate/make friends with others on opposing faction. This wasn't intended and it still shouldn't be, chances are most devilsaur players have a 2nd 60 from the opposing faction to further abuse.

The only reasons people would defend a monopoly is because they have friends to suck off, or profit from it personally. Telling others to do the same isn't ideal considering if they are playing the game the way it was meant to be, it wouldn't be possible.

Ethics folks, get some.

Edited March 15, 2017 by TTL

[Myllz 8]

3 minutes ago, TTL said:

Second unless you actually had two accounts you would never communicate/make friends with others on opposing faction. 

You clearly weren't playing back then, because the forums constantly had conversations between players of both factions on the same realm.  Everyone knew and talked to players on both sides if you were active on the server.  Hell, premades and world battles used to get organized on the forums all the time.

[TTL 6]

6 minutes ago, Myllz said:

You clearly weren't playing back then, because the forums constantly had conversations between players of both factions on the same realm.  Everyone knew and talked to players on both sides if you were active on the server.  Hell, premades and world battles used to get organized on the forums all the time.

You mean if you actually used the forums? Very very small % of players did and last I checked the forums weren't used to communicate like Skype, Discord, Ventrilo etc. today, it was also very rare to nonexistent for players to publicly post that information.

Either way you can keep making excuses for the 0.1%, at the end of the day this wasn't intended.

[Myllz 8]

Just now, TTL said:

You mean if you actually used the forums? Very very small % of players did and last I checked the forums weren't used to communicate like Skype, Discord, Ventrilo etc. today, it was also very rare to nonexistent for players to publicly post that information.

Either way you can keep making excuses for the 0.1%, at the end of the day this wasn't intended.

Again, not true.  A large part of the active population used the forums, and if you're farming devilsaurs, you'd be an active part of the server, so it's fair to say these types of players would have been on the forums back in the day.  Either way, that doesn't even matter.  The fact is Blizzard had communication tools setup for you to discuss things with anyone on your server, opposing faction included.  Choosing not to use those was up to the player, but they existed (as did Vent).

[Vaccine 1]

9 minutes ago, TTL said:

You mean if you actually used the forums? Very very small % of players did and last I checked the forums weren't used to communicate like Skype, Discord, Ventrilo etc. today, it was also very rare to nonexistent for players to publicly post that information.

Either way you can keep making excuses for the 0.1%, at the end of the day this wasn't intended.

Atleast on my server (Frostmane/Vek'nilash) It was very popular to use IRC. And if you were anybody you would be chatting it up in IRC with both alliance and hordes.

[Morathe 5]

2 hours ago, Nosleep said:

This isnt a blizz like realm, they say they want it to be blizz like.. but they change and modify the rules as they see fit.. war effort is a perfect example...yes they have their reason for doing it and i am not attacking them reasons, im just saying it is not a blizz like realm, its a modified realm.

Meaning that we can do whatever we want and blizzard ToU and quotes from it are not relevant, nor your assumption it was written with principle you talk about in mind. Following that, considering that you had official replies from Elysium staff (describing WHAT THEY WANT) regarding what you consider "Un'Goro problem" any further crying about the subject could mean you just ignore the official statements because you don't like the outcome and keep bugging them aka harassing for no reason. You obviously don't like the official statement but you also said yourself Elysium as private server are free to do whatever they want and are not bound by principles that accompanied blizzard in vanilla days (even if assuming those principles were there with them is true to begin with, thats a matter of opinion and belief tbh, not a fact, there was no Un'Goro like situation during official vanilla days so you can't be sure they would consider it a same thing as win trading on bgs. Thats why I consider talking about it as a same thing a bit far fetched, maybe its comparable in principle but its completely different considering the balance and overall health of a server as an entity.)

Edited March 15, 2017 by Morathe

[Morathe 5]

1 hour ago, TTL said:

The only reasons people would defend a monopoly is because they have friends to suck off, or profit from it personally. Telling others to do the same isn't ideal considering if they are playing the game the way it was meant to be, it wouldn't be possible.

Ethics folks, get some.\

Either way you can keep making excuses for the 0.1%, at the end of the day this wasn't intended.

Ofc thats the reason... but also add one more. ITS fun to spy/chase/fight/engage in guerilla warfare that un'goro offers in current shape. Ethics? sorry i'm not roleplayer. You pulled that number out of your ass to fit into your argumentation obviously because unless you were in a dev room in blizzard HQ when they made rules and regulations then im sorry but you know jack shit. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Morathe

[Nosleep 4]

1 hour ago, Morathe said:

Meaning that we can do whatever we want and blizzard ToU and quotes from it are not relevant, nor your assumption it was written with principle you talk about in mind. Following that, considering that you had official replies from Elysium staff (describing WHAT THEY WANT) regarding what you consider "Un'Goro problem" any further crying about the subject could mean you just ignore the official statements because you don't like the outcome and keep bugging them aka harassing for no reason. You obviously don't like the official statement but you also said yourself Elysium as private server are free to do whatever they want and are not bound by principles that accompanied blizzard in vanilla days (even if assuming those principles were there with them is true to begin with, thats a matter of opinion and belief tbh, not a fact, there was no Un'Goro like situation during official vanilla days so you can't be sure they would consider it a same thing as win trading on bgs. Thats why I consider talking about it as a same thing a bit far fetched, maybe its comparable in principle but its completely different considering the balance and overall health of a server as an entity.)

They (the Admins) replied before i entered the discussion and they replied to people who said ''its not fair they gang up and have monopoly'', both of which I have no issue with just like the admin doesnt.

You really do just totally misrepresent everything I say and make arguments based on your incorrect assumption that I dont like the monopoly. Amazing how you do this consistently, which is why I previously called you a troll.

The admins can do whatever they want, they change rules depending on how they see best, my point is that I feel the MC/healing of enemy faction during pvp battles and that favor being returned, warrants discussion. You dont, because you have so much to lose. And maybe because you are not doing that specific action and continuously debate me over points I have not raised and have no issue with. 

I dont assume the blizz rules or ToU were written with any principles in mind, my assumption, if you wanna call it that, is that ALL rules based around the concept of cheating or fair play, are written with principles in mind.. in and out of computer games. It's the principle behind something that makes it ok or not ok.. more so than the effects.

Further to that, I have stated many times that quoting blizz rules and ToU is NOT a valid arguments for either side.. yet here you are again, misrepresenting what I say and acting like I have said things I have not said and in fact I said the opposite. 

 

You seem to think I am arguing that blizz rules and blizz principles are what makes win trading cheating.. but I am not.. my point is that almost everyone would agree that win trading is bad, cheating, and the reason most agree is not JUST because of the potential effects on the ranking system, its because of the principle behind the concept we call ''cheating''

 

Assuming that point, where its the principle behind an action that is responsible for it being labelled cheating or not, I feel that IF that principle is found in other places, then it warrants being looked at and discussed.

A few ppl here have mentioned some specific situations involving this particular type of action, and while i have NO ISSUE AT ALL with farming, monopoly, killing players who compete over resources, I do draw a comparison between the principle of win trading being bad and MC/healing enemy players to gain pvp wins and having that favor returned.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Nosleep

[crunk001 0]

On 8.3.2017 at 5:48 PM, Kajjan said:

There's obviously a monopoly when it comes to the devilsaur farming in Un'goro where Hordes and Alliance collude to clear the spawns from anyone else and then completely overpricing it on the auction house. Is this allowed? 

For example, i went to a spawnpoint where there were 2 other hordes. An alli shows up and tries to kill me but i had the upper hand and was about to kill him when one of the other hordies who havn't done anything but watch up to this point, starts polymorph-spamming the alliance guy in order to heal him up. Ending up with me dying and them not trying to kill eachother at all.  Mage name: Dimu, alli named: Phx. Time: about 17:30 cet (8mars) (Elysium pvp)

Another example, i stand around waiting for spawn with other hordes. I get the tag and kill it. The other hordes try to camp the corpse to steal skin. I tell them that i wont loot the corpse before they're gone. One of the other hordies (who are obviously grouped up with the other hordes) starts verbally harassing me because of it. After half a minute an alliance groups shows up just to kill me. They totally ignore the others and the others ignore them. (already reported in a ticket)

Is this allowed? Because this crap has been going on since the beginning of Elysium PVP.
I get how trying to group farming this is okay, but working with the other faction to get a monopoly going...

Why do you play such a game where other beings treat you this way? Deinstall and have a happier life. Easy. Why continue to play? Seriously

I wanst involved but if I would, it would be +1 more of a reason to not participate in such environments. Very easy. The human mind can get extremely toxic, that is being observed everywhere. And you make your own life more and more miserable, if you participate.

Focus on what has less human mind in it and what allows you to be more creative for your own. There is much space on this planet, so much that it would overwhelm you. And here you are, looking into a square with animated pictures on it and argue why life is unfair. Come on, wake up and get out of your mud

PS: Why am I here? Just checking things out, not really investing anymore.

Take care!

Edited March 15, 2017 by crunk001

[Hurricane2 2]

4 hours ago, Myllz said:

Again, not true.  A large part of the active population used the forums, and if you're farming devilsaurs, you'd be an active part of the server, so it's fair to say these types of players would have been on the forums back in the day.  Either way, that doesn't even matter.  The fact is Blizzard had communication tools setup for you to discuss things with anyone on your server, opposing faction included.  Choosing not to use those was up to the player, but they existed (as did Vent).

They would have allowed cross faction communication in real time in the game if Blizzard intended players to cross faction team.  Just like how in bgs you can have alliance on your team if you're horde if you want.  Oh wait, you can't.

 

[Myllz 8]

4 minutes ago, Hurricane2 said:

They would have allowed cross faction communication in real time in the game if Blizzard intended players to cross faction team.  Just like how in bgs you can have alliance on your team if you're horde if you want.  Oh wait, you can't.

 

Thanks for posting relevant info.  Oh wait, nevermind.