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[GUIDE] Fury Pre-Raid-BiS-List / Specs / Enchants(Updated to Patch 1.8)

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There is interesst for it, this thread alone should be proof for that :). However, I guess its safe to say that you can neglect anything past the first time interval, where your chance for an extra swing would be = 1. By that time, any mc or bwl fight should either be over or you were shortly off target and the swingtimer reset in the meantime, which means we are basically talking about multiple individual fights with a chance of getting an additional hit in, withing the same boss battle.

Edited by Aslan

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There is interesst for it, this thread alone should be proof for that :). However, I guess its safe to say that you can neglect anything past the first time interval, where your chance for an extra swing would be = 1. By that time, any mc or bwl fight should either be over or you were shortly off target and the swingtimer reset in the meantime, which means we are basically talking about multiple individual fights with a chance of getting an additional hit in, withing the same boss battle.

 

Hmm, yes i failed to mention that haste is more effective in target dummy fights, as opposed to fights where you have to swap targets.

 

Regarding the additional swing itself, its very hard to say when you exactly benefit for that that swing; as it is more of a probabilistic chance to benefit from it that increases with time. So if you are very lucky every time you swap you may get an extra swing or if you are unlucky then you never get a extra swing until you hit critical point.

 

Here is a simple example of what i mean when i say the chance to benefit is more of a probability that increases compared to an absolute. Please note that this is a crude illustration, if I do a proper write up I will clarify it further. This is for a 2.00 sec attack speed.

 

Swing        Wep 1 (swing time)        Wep 1 with haste (swing time)     negative void (accumulative difference in time)

     1                     2.00                                           1.98                                                 0.02

     2                     4.00                                           3.96                                                 0.04

     3                     6.00                                           5.94                                                 0.06

     4                     8.00                                           7.92                                                 0.08

     5                    10.00                                          9.90                                                 0.10

 

Notice how the gap between the 2 timers increase. The negative void is the gap in time if the boss is killed during that time; you benefit from a extra swing.

 

Now look at the final 5 (6) swings:

 

 

Swing        Wep 1 (swing time)        Wep 1 with haste (swing time)     negative void (accumulative difference in time)

    96                   192.00                                     190.08                                                     1.92

    97                   194.00                                     192.06                                                     1.94

    98                   196.00                                     194.04                                                     1.96

    99                   198.00                                     196.02                                                     1.98

   100                  200.00                                     198.00                                                     2.00 (critical point)

   101                      X                                          200.00                                                     0.00

 

Here you can see that at exactly 100 hits you get an extra swing with 100% probability. What this means is that you can always have a chance to get that extra swing if you swap target or if the main target dies, but it is only guaranteed at 100th swing. The probability is uniformly distributed with the mean at 50 swings. Meaning at 50 swings, you will have a 50% chance of an extra attack.

 

Let me know if this explanation is confusing in anyway.

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The theory behind the hast enchant has always been clear, but thanks a ton for laying it out. However, comparing this directly to +7/8str/agi could end up making the pee in my skull smoke more than just a bit. If I had money Id consider paying a good prize for an excel spreadsheet with adjustable encounter length in addition to the normal gear/rotation/talent choices :).

Lets say the average Lucifron fight takes your guild anywhere between 35-40 seconds. There would be a certain % chance to get that additional hit and it would bring a certain benefit. 8 str always brings the same average benefit. Now simply weigh the average benefits vs. each other.

The problem is the diversity of these fights, baron gedon gives that chance every like 10-12 seconds, ragnaros every 25 seconds, magmadar whenever you cant avoid a fear... in order to make the calculation practical we would have to assume a single target fight with a specific duration and without movement wouldnt we? The bad thing is, that is impractical for comparing the dps gains.

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Hmm, yes i failed to mention that haste is more effective in target dummy fights, as opposed to fights where you have to swap targets.

 

Regarding the additional swing itself, its very hard to say when you exactly benefit for that that swing; as it is more of a probabilistic chance to benefit from it that increases with time. So if you are very lucky every time you swap you may get an extra swing or if you are unlucky then you never get a extra swing until you hit critical point.

 

Here is a simple example of what i mean when i say the chance to benefit is more of a probability that increases compared to an absolute. Please note that this is a crude illustration, if I do a proper write up I will clarify it further. This is for a 2.00 sec attack speed.

 

Swing        Wep 1 (swing time)        Wep 1 with haste (swing time)     negative void (accumulative difference in time)

     1                     2.00                                           1.98                                                 0.02

     2                     4.00                                           3.96                                                 0.04

     3                     6.00                                           5.94                                                 0.06

     4                     8.00                                           7.92                                                 0.08

     5                    10.00                                          9.90                                                 0.10

 

Notice how the gap between the 2 timers increase. The negative void is the gap in time if the boss is killed during that time; you benefit from a extra swing.

 

Now look at the final 5 (6) swings:

 

 

Swing        Wep 1 (swing time)        Wep 1 with haste (swing time)     negative void (accumulative difference in time)

    96                   192.00                                     190.08                                                     1.92

    97                   194.00                                     192.06                                                     1.94

    98                   196.00                                     194.04                                                     1.96

    99                   198.00                                     196.02                                                     1.98

   100                  200.00                                     198.00                                                     2.00 (critical point)

   101                      X                                          200.00                                                     0.00

 

Here you can see that at exactly 100 hits you get an extra swing with 100% probability. What this means is that you can always have a chance to get that extra swing if you swap target or if the main target dies, but it is only guaranteed at 100th swing. The probability is uniformly distributed with the mean at 50 swings. Meaning at 50 swings, you will have a 50% chance of an extra attack.

 

Let me know if this explanation is confusing in anyway.

 

 

This isn't how attack speed works in WoW. http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_speed

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This isn't how attack speed works in WoW. http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_speed

 

Same formula:

 

Attack_speed = "current attack speed" / (("Percent increase or decrease" / 100) + 1 )

 

1.98019 = 2.0 / ((1/100)+1)

 

I rounded up to 1.98

 

What i wanted to show with that was not the attack speed calculation but the nature of how the extra attack works; and how the difference in speed adds up to the possibility of the extra attack.

 

At 3 mins 20 sec someone with a 2.0 wep without haste will get 100 hits off, someone with 2.0 wep and 1% haste will manage 101 attacks guaranteed. Its possible to get that extra attack from haste earlier, but the shorter the fight the lower the chance of it happening.

 

It is more of what is the chance of you getting a extra attack compared to someone without 1% haste enchant. Sorry if the explanation is a bit rough. 

Edited by Roflcakes

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Wielding Grand Marshal 1handers you have to fight the boss for 98.1 seconds after your fist swing(or 46 swings total without any interruptions) before you get a guaranteed extra swing.

The only fights that last longer than 98.1 seconds MIGHT be Ragnaros, Chromagus and Nefarian. All three fights have a mechanic in the fight that resets your swing timer, making their length completely irrelevant. 

You have such a tiny window prior to 98.1 seconds into the fight where you can gain an extra swing over a strength enchanted warrior, but only if the boss dies in that exact window where you've gained your swing before the other warriors swing again.

 

I'll take 57AP permanently over a miniscule chance to gain what could end up being 0(even if you get lucky enough to have your swing over the strength enchanted warriors, your attack can dodge or miss or glance for ~300 dmg) damage ROFL

 

That's not even counting that it has ZERO effect on trash.

 

[email protected]@

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Can any of you tell me how viable the 2nd fury build is for raiding? I was told buy a guy in reddit that it's quite good because of the low hit % needed, compared to fury?

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Can any of you tell me how viable the 2nd fury build is for raiding? I was told buy a guy in reddit that it's quite good because of the low hit % needed, compared to fury?

 

It's "okay". Better for Horde due to WF-totem. You wont compete for top5 dps like a Dualwielder would but you wont be at the bottom either.

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It's "okay". Better for Horde due to WF-totem. You wont compete for top5 dps like a Dualwielder would but you wont be at the bottom either.

2h fury was the way to go if you werent rank 14. Bonereavers was bugged to stack with itself and had amazing uptime. You were basically putting the mobs armor to 0 when you used it.

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2h fury was the way to go if you werent rank 14. Bonereavers was bugged to stack with itself and had amazing uptime. You were basically putting the mobs armor to 0 when you used it.

 

"Was" is the key word though. Bonereavers has been nerfed here as of the servers ressurection. It's still good, great infact but you wont top over dualwielders with BWL gear.

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I just tested the ironfoe proc chance, did 1609 swings, got 82 procs, about 5% chance. I guess I'm banking my ironfoe for now.

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I just tested the ironfoe proc chance, did 1609 swings, got 82 procs, about 5% chance. I guess I'm banking my ironfoe for now.

I came to the same conclusion with 60 procs in 1020 hits. However, while this does make it quite a bit weaker, it's still a powerful item and pre-raid bis.

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I seen someones test results on the Ironfoe, it was indeed nerfed to around a 6% proc rate, uncertain if that is on the current servers but I imagine so.

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On 12/2/2016 at 8:42 PM, simppi said:

Can any of you tell me how viable the 2nd fury build is for raiding? I was told buy a guy in reddit that it's quite good because of the low hit % needed, compared to fury?

My experience with it in retail vanilla was that it was significantly stronger in all of MC and most if not all of BWL, for the itemization reasons you've already been told about.  It definitely falls behind in AQ40, as by then you have access to some fantastic hit gear like the Breastplate of Annihilation

Where dual wield passes two handed fury is a matter of some debate.  I couldn't tell you with certainty.  Just start strong with 2H fury and aim to switch late BWL or early AQ40. 

As an added perk, you're going to get priority on 2handers as you're the only person in the raid who can effectively use them.  Not competing with the rogues makes how your raid uses loot more efficient.

 

Edited by cybaster

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On 03/12/2016 at 1:27 AM, slippery said:

Wielding Grand Marshal 1handers you have to fight the boss for 98.1 seconds after your fist swing(or 46 swings total without any interruptions) before you get a guaranteed extra swing.

The only fights that last longer than 98.1 seconds MIGHT be Ragnaros, Chromagus and Nefarian. All three fights have a mechanic in the fight that resets your swing timer, making their length completely irrelevant. 

You have such a tiny window prior to 98.1 seconds into the fight where you can gain an extra swing over a strength enchanted warrior, but only if the boss dies in that exact window where you've gained your swing before the other warriors swing again.

 

I'll take 57AP permanently over a miniscule chance to gain what could end up being 0(even if you get lucky enough to have your swing over the strength enchanted warriors, your attack can dodge or miss or glance for ~300 dmg) damage ROFL

 

That's not even counting that it has ZERO effect on trash.

 

[email protected]@

Did you flunk math in school bro?

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Maybe it's been answered elsewhere in the forums or on other websites but I failed to find anything about it.

Why is Destiny not listed as a top weapon to get as fury 2hander?

I mean, with the proc, a crusader enchant, and the diamond Flask, it can boost massively your total AP for awesome burst damage with Bloodthirst.  

200+100+75 = 375 str boost * 2 = 750 AP *0.45 = +338 damage from BT. That does'nt look bad at all. 

 

What you guys think? I may be missing informations about it which is why I'm asking that question here.

thanks,

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3 hours ago, hakoon said:

Maybe it's been answered elsewhere in the forums or on other websites but I failed to find anything about it.

Why is Destiny not listed as a top weapon to get as fury 2hander?

I mean, with the proc, a crusader enchant, and the diamond Flask, it can boost massively your total AP for awesome burst damage with Bloodthirst.  

200+100+75 = 375 str boost * 2 = 750 AP *0.45 = +338 damage from BT. That does'nt look bad at all. 

 

What you guys think? I may be missing informations about it which is why I'm asking that question here.

thanks,

Burst damage is of no interest what so ever. All that matters is sustained DPS over time. Also, there's no proc-rate data on destiny unless someone had run it thru proc-watch during the right conditions and correct methodology.

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I understand what you mean about sustained DPS.  But on an entire run of dungeon/raid, Destiny has already a good basic DPS of 53.8 so this shouldn't be that bad at first. Then if you add it's proc which should be around same % than Arcanite Champion/Truesilver Champion wich is +/- 5% (which what most ppl report having recorded as proc rate for Destiny),  add crusader proc rate as well and on a 2 or 3 hour run, that's significant boosted DPS, woudn't be? Boosted DPS and boosted BT as well.  I was just thinking about it since i got that sword. Currently lvl 50 so I cannot test it yet. But I was considering using that sword from lvl 52 to 60 (with crusader enchant on it) until i get a worthy replacement.  

Could be great as arm with the sword specialization for more proc chance or especially fury for that boosted BT I'm talking about.

 

 

 

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What is the base miss chance for dualwielding-warriors on this server? 24% or 27%? I have seen both values being tossed around.

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On 12/2/2016 at 6:04 PM, Roflcakes said:

 

 

Swing        Wep 1 (swing time)        Wep 1 with haste (swing time)     negative void (accumulative difference in time)

     1                     2.00                                           1.98                                                 0.02

 

Swing 1 will be 0.00.  You start the fight swinging.  So your 100th swing would be the free swing, not 101st per your chart.      Either was doesn't matter much.  Though a lot of people forget to use a 0 factor on first attack when discussing weapon speed advantages.

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On 2017-02-06 at 5:34 PM, Aderlass said:

What is the base miss chance for dualwielding-warriors on this server? 24% or 27%? I have seen both values being tossed around.

I belive its 27 and 24 if you have 5 wep skill.

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Why is Tooth of Eranikus not included in the MH section? If you pair this with thrash blade in your OH, it can really help with those who dont have the hit rating yet.

Edited by o0oNullo0o

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7 hours ago, o0oNullo0o said:

Why is Tooth of Eranikus not included in the MH section? If you pair this with thrash blade in your OH, it can really help with those who dont have the hit rating yet.

Because it's simply not good enough to include for pre-raid. There's plenty of "good" items in instances 50-60 but if all of them where included the list would be too bloated.

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