Why are retail players so angry about this server?

[Shayss 43]

(Wall of Text)

 

 

This really isn't rocket science people. The answer is simply difference of opinion.

TL:DR - some people think differently from us. вау em xD

 

PS: Just to make sure you understand, what you consider poor design, I consider to be intricacy and flavour. What you consider an "oldie" game, happens to be what I consider to be a masterpiece. I should know, after all, I was playing on Nost for 6 months - 6 hours a day during the week, 10 hours on a weekend, everyday.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Shayss

[Danko 1]

About the shutdown, i think blizzard realized that if they shut a big server like nostalrius down, then it wont do much since servers can just release their code/database.

 

If i would be the guy who is responsible for the "fight against the private server scene" project, i would either force the servers to move by sending c&d letters to the server's hosting company, so people would be frustrated that they can't play for weeks (hence leaving the server), or i would try to pursue the higher ups to let the dev team create official servers. They are fighting against gold sellers by selling gold, they could fight against and propably wipe out a huge part of the private server scene by providing their own servers.

[Elviss 5]

Ohoho, we have keyboard warrior here. So, let me challenge you to a duel

 

You obviously don't know the reason. 

 

And you know? You are part of Blizzard developers team? 

 

I guess you are not. 

 

Then you don't know either. You can make guess, you can have your opinion, but so does he. Deal with it because you can't change it.

 

They removed "buffs" so as to avoid being forced to bring a specific class to the raid. 

 

You would be right if this is just MMO, but this is MMORPG, and RPG means role playing game. Role playing games give people opportunity to play different roles. And different roles means diversity not in just cosmetics, but in esencial mechanics. Now we can debate if WoW was ever good as RPG, but that is whole another story.

 

Being forced to get a dwarf priest with you was wrong. I remember back then that we had to bring a really retard player to our raids just to cast fear ward. This is not normal and this is definitely not in the spirit of an MMO. It is not normal to wait for the WARRIOR to come just because the other tanks were not good enough. This is not good design!!

 

 I agree but it has all been ironed out in TBC.. Speaking of design, I can also agree that Blizzard has been prone to making dubious decisions and that's because they never really captured meaning of RPG but rather tried to make it appealing to wider masses. As the demands of those wider masses changed, so does WoW. But what is the fact, is that WoW was MMO, massively multi-player online game. And that is something that is completely lost. 

 

Being forced to get a dwarf priest with you was wrong

 

errrr...

 

What they did instead, was make classes shine to some bosses which is very cool. 

 

Is it just me or...nvm I'll say it...

 

Are you effin' kidding me? You can't even see that this two statements that you made are contradicted to each other? You can't agree with your self and yet you keep telling someone else how he is wrong? You can't even bring argument into conversation without later having to disagree with your self...let's move on

 

At Siege of Orgrimar - Siegecrafter Blackfuse (I will only to refer to mythic mode), hunters were the best but not the only class, that could handle conveyor belt! (I know some will not even know what I mean here...)on themselves! 

 

Yup, you're right. Not a WotLK baby, have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Your argument is totally...

 

Are you still talking about someone's arguments?

 

 

 Pallypower casting the buffs every 5 minutes, just to justify your spot?

 

First of all, Pallypower doesn't work for 5 minutes buffs, but for longer versions, but I see your point. And I agree that it was lame to do that for one class.

 

 

You really need to distinguish good design from nostalgia. Your argument is totally the opposite. At vanilla there were only dps, healing and tanks. You would almost never see a moonkin! Not an elemental shaman (please do not start with "our guild brought one elem". we are talking about the general rule). You almost never saw a feral (cat)! Not even a BM hunter!! Never a prot paladin (apart from some special cases in trash). Now if this is not boring, what is boring exactly? 

 

 

Was it smart? No. Was it efficient? No. And, hell, it was pain in the arse to farm all consumables. But it was possible to do if you really wanted to do it. Point is that people had choices how to build their toons which is completely lost now.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Elviss

[windslav 2]

You really need to distinguish good design from nostalgia. Your argument is totally the opposite. At vanilla there were only dps, healing and tanks. You would almost never see a moonkin! Not an elemental shaman (please do not start with "our guild brought one elem". we are talking about the general rule). You almost never saw a feral (cat)! Not even a BM hunter!! Never a prot paladin (apart from some special cases in trash). Now if this is not boring, what is boring exactly? 

 

Now you see all of those but you don't care because all specs are identical and have the same abilities.

[Uncle Ganus of Clan McAnus 0]

You really need to distinguish good design from nostalgia. Your argument is totally the opposite. At vanilla there were only dps, healing and tanks. You would almost never see a moonkin! Not an elemental shaman (please do not start with "our guild brought one elem". we are talking about the general rule). You almost never saw a feral (cat)! Not even a BM hunter!! Never a prot paladin (apart from some special cases in trash). Now if this is not boring, what is boring exactly?

 

By the strong shields of Kara Adams, I say !! Our group uses all of them and it's our general rule !! Your argument is invalid !!!

[Dralek 5]

You really need to distinguish good design from nostalgia. Your argument is totally the opposite. At vanilla there were only dps, healing and tanks. You would almost never see a moonkin! Not an elemental shaman (please do not start with "our guild brought one elem". we are talking about the general rule). You almost never saw a feral (cat)! Not even a BM hunter!! Never a prot paladin (apart from some special cases in trash). Now if this is not boring, what is boring exactly? 

At TBC and later you started seeing some variety at last! Class design was still poor in general (lock still only SBing for instance), but at least you could see paladin tanks, elemental shamans and some moonkins at raids! That was great! At WotLK you saw really really strong Retri Paladins (undead  mobs played a part to this but so what?). And so on.

If the game stayed to vanilla, it would have been dead after 4-5 years tops. 40-man raid was cool back then but were not there to stay. It is more difficult to balance, it is a nightmare for raid leaders. If we ever wanted to see hybrids play other specs than their "vanilla actual role", 40 man raids were not viable to do so. They would never managed to balance it. Period.

Now on the cool pictures you post. I was there. In both live and Nost. And are cool. But please keep in mind that there were max 2 servers.... It is normal to be that full. There are still full servers (more than 2 of course) at live. You just don't see pictures, because people have moved on. They expect more from the game than staying at IF because raiding week ended at Wednesday. There is nothing to explore any more just in azeroth. It is not like it used to be when you discovered a cave or a hidden NPC somewhere. Now all is documented, every inch of the land!

 

So in case you are wondering, why I spent my time writing these (there are much more to write), knowing that I will get flamed... I did that because I loved the game back then AND now. And I don't like seeing post like "legion kids" from ignorant people that do not know where anyone come from. I raided every single expansion to highest mode, I heavy PvPed at high level in 2 expansions and I am not a kid. Having millions of people still playing the game after 12 years, means that most of the arguments here are not very accurate (not all posts contain arguments of course ). I WILL play at the new server but really, 15-20K people playing a game is not a movement if you still have millions play at live. It is just a sweet nice oldie that we enjoy to play. And please stop with the labels on people that enjoy live as well.

I will enjoy though what I miss from live; your actions did matter on the server! If you were a good player, people knew it! If you were a good (or nasty) pvper, the opposite faction was hunting you! That was so cool! I remember back then when the first Rank14 was a mage (cannot remember the name, he was Italian) and we gathered some people, ambushed him in a BG, our mage polly-ed and we all cast our spells at the same time to one shot him. It was fun because this screenshot appeared at the server forum And people laughed and the mage himself laughed Good times. These I miss. Not the poor design....

 

It wasn't poor design, problem was that the game was set on a pre-determined path since beta, and changed midway in the first few patches when people demanded the game to be much more oriented in end-game pve content, and expected/complain about class performance in late raid content (which is fair because raids were the best source of high stat items).

 

Vanilla was originally designed with a focus on character adventure, and this can be seen in the very early stages of beta and release, and it was supposed to take a very long time to achieve max level, while giving grater focus at the character development tfor each area of the game one wished to participate. This is why, for example, there were very few quests at release, which were added later with the patches.

 

Thus the 3 spec classes was created in view of the 3 challenges a player might focus on the game, being adventuring, player vs player and group raiding. This is fairly noticeable in how the specs function. Take hunter for example, with beast mastery excelling for soloing content (leveling), marksman for direct focused damage (group raiding) and survival talents focused on increasing defense by protecting player or increasing its cc capabilities (deterrance, imprv wing clip, better traps, wyvern sting, more hp %, etc) which in theory help in the pvp scene. This is by far more noticeable in earlier patches of the game.

 

However, the community demanded more focus on the PVE scene, and because of the original design a lot of specs that were supposed to be the focus of other areas of the game (leveling and pvp) were ignored, because changing them into "proper" raiding specs was imposible by that stage.

 

The community is what took WoW of its original path, creating the "useless" specs, not because they were useless, but rather because by popular demand the area in which they were supposed to shine was ignored.

[Undertanker 88]

Wanted to play spot the retailer, but Rayaleith made it too easy.

[Crowley 8]

There is more to this game than raiding, and there is more to builds and "variety" than just what it amounts to in a raid. I played from vanilla to wrath and never cared for raiding, I never cared for the pigeon-hole mentality that Ray said vanilla was. I enjoyed other aspects of the game which held plenty of variety. I truly believe every race,class,spec is viable to a player with an open mind. You'll always have your elites and the mentality that comes along with them, but that doesn't make it law.

[Milarepa 1]

It's not worth even speculating as to why some people hate vanilla, or private vanilla servers, or the idea of Blizzard vanilla servers.  It won't be resolved with words:  the 1873 page, 2,519,548 views, multiple infractions and bans thread on mmo-champion is proof of that.

 

Some people are straight up obsessive and hostile as вау about it.  But actually if we were playing WoW right now we'd probably be just as easily-triggered, because good MMOs give you that adrenaline rush and addictive, left-brained mindset.  So we can fix that next week and soon become the same crazed video game addicts.  It will be very nice!  Then we can go back to nitpicking and raging about insignificant, small-picture things, like hunter demon spawn times!

[Faith 5]

By the rotting corpse of Ol' Sooty, I say !! Those retailers are just a bit jelly cause they don't have this:

+2

[Faith 5]

I give the whole project max. 3-6 months before shut down.

I'll put down 100 bucks right now on this. You are most certainly wrong

[Aituul 0]

I'd like to think that the majority of players don't really care. They simply enjoy their time playing retail, and that's fine. Nothing wrong with that, i don't have a problem with people who enjoy retail.

 

That said, if you want to ask my opinion about retail, i'm not gonna sit here and say it's great because it's not. WoD was complete garbage and legion is more of the same, pvp has been gutted completely, hardly anyone left actually cares about it, raid tiers are disappointing as hell, anyone with half a brain can clear mythic EN, TOV was tuned a bit better but it still gets cleared within 4 days of release on mythic. Class design and balance are complete trash, i find it rather amusing that people talk about poor class design in vanilla. Every class had atleast 1 viable spec. Meanwhile, on retail, GL trying to play a survival hunter in pve, or trying to play a frost mage... balance is really piss poor in legion, which says a lot because you'd think that's the one area they could actually improve on. I'm really disgusted when i log on my frost mage in retail and see all my action bars empty... it's really sad that they've pruned so much under the guise of " class fantasy ". 

 

Meanwhile, the same people that sit here and talk about how mythic is so challenging, are the ones wiping on mythic xavius when it's the easiest fight we've had in a long time.. there really is no challenge to raiding on retail. Anyone with half a brain is capable of clearing mythic, just show up for raid night, follow mechanics while pressing your 3 button rotation, and maybe farm mythic + afterwards so you can get a legendary.... Meanwhile, if those same people even attempted BWL or AQ , they would quit halfway through. I know for a fact that if i wanted to raid on retail i could clear mythic, i'm not so sure if i could clear naxx 40. So for me, that's a big issue. 

[Rayaleith 2]

Guys... Giving more than one class the ability to battle rez, was not a bad thing. It is the same with the dwarf priest theme. You join a group not because you happened to roll X class, but because you have a good reputation and know how to play. Why is it that bad for you? You agree that community  and -therefore- reputation was a good thing before the LFD era. Why do you feel it is a good thing to have some classes do a crucial function of the game and be forced to take one? Not ALL classes can battle rez now. So you cannot say there is homogenization. I agree at a time later, they did come close to class homogenization, but they acknowledged it and did something about it.

 

 

However, the community demanded more focus on the PVE scene, and because of the original design a lot of specs that were supposed to be the focus of other areas of the game (leveling and pvp) were ignored, because changing them into "proper" raiding specs was imposible by that stage.

 

 

I think it was not the pressure for more PvE. It was essential for the game to survive. Otherwise you would see people only leveling and nothing more. It is very important for a game to give things to do when you reach the cap. PvE endgaming (raids) is one, PvP is another, miscellaneous is the 3rd. Imagine now leveling being in the same pace as it was in vanilla, later in the game. The level cap now is 110. Imagine how many months you would have to play, if -say- wanted to reroll. Rerolling made the game last even more. We had our favorite class and several alts to enjoy the game. You cannot expect people to spend all their time leveling, when you offer them rich endgame. It is wrong.

So, we covered PvE. They made it better. PvP was always a problem, especially with the way talents/spells were interacting with other players. In Vanilla you could kill a player by consta-fearing her. You could also insta-kill them every 3 minutes as a PoM-Pyro mage. You could destroy a whole team as a warrior with a healer behind etc. Yeah, good times. Some of us were there! But do you feel this could be carry on for 12 years and not lead people to roll the specific classes only? 

On the other things. I was lucky enough to play vanilla and it was so ваууin cool to discover things in the world. And find rare recipes. And all these things. Do you thing that would last for 12 years? People complain that with each expansion, the previous "main world" (azeroth, outlands, northrend etc) becomes obsolete. Yes, I don't like it either. But it is what it is. We move on.

 

 

Are you effin' kidding me? You can't even see that this two statements that you made are contradicted to each other?

 

 

I was sure one would not read the sentence properly before the quote. I said hunters shined on this but still other classes could do it as well. I was a lock back then (well, since vanilla tbh ) and I could do this part as well. But I liked that there were mechanics in the game that suited better for certain classes. That was all. At vanilla you needed a prot warrior not because it was a better class for a specific mechanic but it was the best by far class to do it. Period. You needed a dps but NOT a moonkin, enhancement, elemental, fearal cat, retri etc not because these specs lacked a specific thing (which is fine) but because these specs were not good enough in general. That means there was no ваууin choice. You wanted to play a class, still you knew you will not be accepted as any of your 2/3 specs! 

 

I do not hate vanilla for sure. And I am sure most of people that actually played back then do not hate it as well. What I hate is see people who did not play the rest of the expansions, come and criticize based on... what? What their friend told? What the xx youtuber think? So there are really retail babies who do not have any idea what vanilla was about but there are definitely vanilla-babies who do not know a thing about how the game evolved. 

 

P.S. Siegecrafter Blackfuse was MoP. You do not know even what expansions were about (it was a notorious boss at heroic) and have a strong opinion for progress of wow as a game...

 

P.S. Really with this forum profanity?  

Edited December 10, 2016 by Rayaleith

[Crowley 8]

I do not hate vanilla for sure. And I am sure most of people that actually played back then hate it as well. What I hate is see people who did not play the rest of the expansions, come and criticize based on... what? What their friend told? What the xx youtuber think? So there are really retail babies who do not have any idea what vanilla was about but there are definitely vanilla-babies who do not know a thing about how the game evolved. 

 

 

I don't need to taste poop to know that I wouldn't enjoy eating it.

Simply reading the changes that have happened with the last few expansions is more than enough knowledge to know that I wouldn't enjoy what the games become through the years.  And yes a retail player can look back on how things were in vanilla, without ever playing it, and know that they wouldn't like it.  So it works both ways for sure, but you don't necessarily have to experience it personally to know that you wouldn't like something.

[MeridianAdams 0]

People are upset that we dont pay to play the game. They dont get that people like myself are still paying a subscription to the main game regardless. If Blizzard would only provide Legacy servers like we asked, we would not have to play on private servers. And I am 100% sure the hosts of these private servers would gladly play on Legacy servers as well as the us if only Blizzard would provide them.

[Dralek 5]

I think it was not the pressure for more PvE. It was essential for the game to survive. Otherwise you would see people only leveling and nothing more. It is very important for a game to give things to do when you reach the cap. PvE endgaming (raids) is one, PvP is another, miscellaneous is the 3rd. Imagine know leveling being in the same pace as it was in vanilla, later in the game. The level cap now is 110. Imagine how many months you would have to play, if -say- wanted to reroll. Rerolling made the game last even more. We had our favorite class and several alts to enjoy the game. You cannot expect people to spend all their time leveling, when you offer them rich endgame. It is wrong.

So, we covered PvE. They made it better. PvP was always a problem, especially with the way talents/spells were interacting with other players. In Vanilla you could kill a player by consta-fearing her. You could also insta-kill them every 3 minutes as a PoM-Pyro mage. You could destroy a whole team as a warrior with a healer behind etc. Yeah, good times. Some of us were there! But do you feel this could be carry on for 12 years and not lead people to roll the specific classes only? 

On the other things. I was lucky enough to play vanilla and it was so ваууin cool to discover things in the world. And find rare recipes. And all these things. Do you thing that would last for 12 years? People complain that with each expansion, the previous "main world" (azeroth, outlands, northrend etc) becomes obsolete. Yes, I don't like it either. But it is what it is. We move on.

 

I refer to adventuring, not exactly leveling, which implies players going into the open world doing stuff in a less organized more solo oriented manner, which (in some games at the time) was an option of end-game. This is why, early on for example, a lot of good epic items would drop from normal mobs. This followed the idea of korean MMO's at the time that games were supposed to be grindy, and people had to spend hours killing a certain type of mob farming for good stuff. An idea that was later dropped in favour of other style of play to get epic rewards. For example, if you are planning on old-style grinding gold with your character, you can notice that even at high gear lvls, it is easier to use your leveling spec, which is more suited for solo play.

 

That was Blizzard's original plans for the game. Each spec was design to suit a role in the game, thus you would have a solo tree, a raid tree, and a pvp tree. Eventually this was dropped because the focus was in PVE end-game, and all talent trees were sort of balanced out for PVP. Taking hunter as an example again, sure BM was completly useless for end-game PVE, but if you were looking to farm dungeons/mobs spawn points for gold, BM was by far the most efficient to use.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Dralek

[Limitless 6]

I need another bag of popcorn. You guys kept me entertained for a while.

[Faith 5]

There is more to this game than raiding, and there is more to builds and "variety" than just what it amounts to in a raid. I played from vanilla to wrath and never cared for raiding, I never cared for the pigeon-hole mentality that Ray said vanilla was. I enjoyed other aspects of the game which held plenty of variety. I truly believe every race,class,spec is viable to a player with an open mind. You'll always have your elites and the mentality that comes along with them, but that doesn't make it law.

When I plaid Vanilla and when I will play it again here at Nostalrius.. Raiding is the LAST thing on my mind. I will be focus'd on 5 man's 10 mans.. and BG's and World PvP. Raiding is at the bottom of my list as far as things I want to do.

 

Not saying there is anything wrong with raiding I just never cared for it that much. Go online lookup up a strat practice it employ it over and over until you succeed so you then have the same gear as every other class/spec who is raiding?

 

i just never cared for that Path. 

 

This is why I'm very into advanced Ai in MMO's and allowing the players actions to dynamically and radically change the Story. This is not really present in current MMO's but I think it's where MMO's should go.

 

Chronicles of Elyria does not really have that but it does have a lot of interesting mechanics. The only MMO on the horizon that has my interest currently besides Vanilla WoW.

 

Cheers

 

~ Faith ~

[Destron 2]

The truth is, they aren't. End of discussion.

[Enhancement 12]

Some people will get upset over the dumbest stuff imaginable. And some people will defend Blizzard no matter what.

[Undertanker 88]

We not gonna talk about that Pally tanking all of ZG with Salvation on?

[Ellipsea 36]

When I plaid Vanilla and when I will play it again here at Nostalrius.. Raiding is the LAST thing on my mind. I will be focus'd on 5 man's 10 mans.. and BG's and World PvP. Raiding is at the bottom of my list as far as things I want to do.

 

Yeah 5 mans in Vanilla are my fav.  They're so interactive.  I ran MC about 6 times on PvP realm, and honestly I hated it as healer.  Staring at raidframes for a couple hours and pushing buttons.  It. was. yucky.  I ran ZG on another server about..I dunno 8 times or so, and that's something I can get my hands around.  I liked it.  For me, forty is just too many damn people.  Maybe I'd like BWL better?  dunno.  I'm happy to raid or not to raid, doesn't much matter to me as long as I get to run the five man.

 

You know, I'd also like to say that I don't follow any guides or cookie cutter for building out my toons.  I make them to suit my style and that's one of the reasons I really like vanilla.  The ability to use the tree as we see fit.  Since I don't want a hardcore raid guild, it doesn't matter to me that I'm supposed to be a dwarf or use the tree just so.  

Edited December 10, 2016 by Ellipsea

[Aisar87 0]

I can't stand what retail has been since cataclysm or so, having said that my biased opinion is they are mad because retail is garbage and we have the chance to play a version of the game that will have a great community of tight-knit players who are passionate about playing the way they want.  They don't have that anymore, it's impossible because of the way blizzard has ruined the game and they know that.  They are paying money into an inferior version of the game, that stings and tends to make people upset.  Some of their anger/negativity comes from their inability to let go of a version of the game that has become so shallow and soulless and is in constant decline, no matter how many garbage expansions blizzard wants to release to temporarily boost subscriptions and entice the suckers who continue to pay for them and support blizzard's bad decisions.

 

It's all a big mental mess, people don't like that we have something better and they are stuck with over-casualized, meaningless trash.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Aisar87

[Pmizz 0]

Retail players are retarded

[Tholren 7]

Retail players are retarded

 

Generalizations are bad, and mostly, incorrect.