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PVP BG 3 MAN CAP

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29 minutes ago, lucyfer said:

was discussed months ago when they asked the community for suggestions on how improve pvp cuz it sucked. They ended up implementing teh 25 g respec cost, now they are trying another of the suggestions that they got cuz they respec cost reduction wasnt enough. (it surely helped tho).

Btw that's why u didnt like the respec red cost mahtan, you dont pvp at all. Try to see things in perspective pls.

Yeah they definitely asked the community whether or not they wanted to remove the ability to play with your friends.

Oh.... wait. Did they?

Oh.....

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39 minutes ago, lucyfer said:

was discussed months ago when they asked the community for suggestions on how improve pvp cuz it sucked. They ended up implementing teh 25 g respec cost, now they are trying another of the suggestions that they got cuz they respec cost reduction wasnt enough. (it surely helped tho).

Btw that's why u didnt like the respec red cost mahtan, you dont pvp at all. Try to see things in perspective pls.

You answered your question. I don't pvp, but 25 gold respec cost is a PvE change, too. I played a druid with hybrid spec to provide healing/tanking depending on raid setup (ZG, MC, etc). Cheaper respec cost lowers the tolerance of such hybrid specs and is absolutely not what I want to deal with.

I also disliked that after implementation, the change has not been allowed for discussion.

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I think its pretty obvious how they are going to measure the success of this move. If the average amount of people doing bgs goes up, good change. If it stays the same or down, bad change.

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15 hours ago, Mahtan said:

You answered your question. I don't pvp, but 25 gold respec cost is a PvE change, too. I played a druid with hybrid spec to provide healing/tanking depending on raid setup (ZG, MC, etc). Cheaper respec cost lowers the tolerance of such hybrid specs and is absolutely not what I want to deal with.

I also disliked that after implementation, the change has not been allowed for discussion.

The only reason you wanted to be a hybrid spec in the first place is because respec costs ran you dry if you wanted to be a different role each raid.
You're complaining about a solution to a problem you had because it conflicts with your own suboptimal solution you came up with for it.

Being in some weird hybrid spec that can (just barely) tank and heal both at once may work for you, but it doesn't work for most people and it certainly doesn't work for people who want to be raiding more seriously. You have to understand that the "just be specced hybrid at all times" solution is a solution that works for very few people.

 

I really doubt that any guild that would've tolerated you in such a weird hybrid spec would no longer tolerate you because "it's 25g instead of 50g to respec now". It seems to me more like a mindset thing.

 

More relevant to the topic at hand tho, they'll probably just find out that the change doesnt really do all that much except ruin premade vs premade games. People will still sync queue and stomp pugs.

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I wonder what this does to the honor cap for br1.

anyone with some first hand experience that can elaborate what the situation on anathema is likd now?

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11 hours ago, Caber said:

The only reason you wanted to be a hybrid spec in the first place is because respec costs ran you dry if you wanted to be a different role each raid.
You're complaining about a solution to a problem you had because it conflicts with your own suboptimal solution you came up with for it.

Being in some weird hybrid spec that can (just barely) tank and heal both at once may work for you, but it doesn't work for most people and it certainly doesn't work for people who want to be raiding more seriously. You have to understand that the "just be specced hybrid at all times" solution is a solution that works for very few people.

 

I really doubt that any guild that would've tolerated you in such a weird hybrid spec would no longer tolerate you because "it's 25g instead of 50g to respec now". It seems to me more like a mindset thing.

Sorry for being offtopic, but I would like to respond to that ^^

I play my spec like I played it during vanilla and tbc, no crime here. I connect wonderful memories with that kind of playing. You surely know that in retail, people have never been that elitist in the most part. The lack of fresh and undiscovered content changes that attitude tremendously on Elysium, not only for the better. Lower respec cost do not really help with that :D

Ironically, I was member in <limited edition> on Darrowshire horde for my last months, which is advertised as one of the elite guilds for that server/faction. I was not part of the main raid, but supported the alt raid as tank/heal and was able to help with ZG and other stuff, like helping with UBRS to farm beast ace for the third healer that needs it in a row xD

My personal decision to stop playing here is complex, like it's always the case. I dislike the shift from Nostalrius "true to the original" mentality to some kind of "we do not copy, but keep the feeling" which doesn't work for me sadly. The feeling on Elysium (and Nost) is already so different to retail back in the days. I played on a roleplay server, it was a German speaking server, the game was fresh and new, it was the first mmo for many people, you had a paywall to pass (less children) and so on. It's IMPOSSIBLE to keep the feeling of back in the days. But I enjoyed Nost and Elysium nevertheless. Things got kind of stale. Darrowshire horde is a ghost town for someone who just loves doing dungeons. I dislike raiding very much when it's difficult. I raided AQ40 until twins and the first bosses in Naxx during retail vanilla, I am just done with anything in a video game that is feeling like work.

Anyway, I stop here, I guess you understand now that reading about "suboptimal" specs and "raiding more seriously" will only lead up to me doing the facepalm.

 

As a sidenote, to get back to topic. People, yes admins and GMs too, tend to talk like they know who is a vocal minority and what the majority thinks. I guess that most people don't read the forum or reddit and just play or stop playing when they dislike something. Custom changes like the 3-people queues are very dangerous to implement. I bet that over 90% of players who are unhappy about the change will not tell you anything and just stop PvP, stop playing at all or just continue to do PvP and still disliking it, increasing the chance that the next big custom change will fear them away. In the end, these changes are implemented blindly and it's almost impossible to foresee their effectiveness and popularity.

Many projects have failed (Feenix is a recent example) because they tried out too much custom bullshit without really evaluating their consequences. I hope that this does not happen for Elysium.

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15 minutes ago, Mahtan said:

I sometimes got into the alt raids of a good guild (but got benched there too) and thats why I facepalm when you say serious guilds dont really tolerate hybrid specs no matter the respec cost

oh

 

For the record if I played a druid I absolutely would be dicking around in a hybrid spec too, because it's fun as fuck, but I have zero delusions that respec cost has anything to do with hybrid specs being tolerated or not. It's simply a minmaxing thing.

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Anecdotal... I outhealed my 8/8 T2 class leader more than once (Regrowth spam at Vael, I did not die at Nef during class calls due to higher life pool with hybrid gear etc) with just 5 points in restoration. Therefore my facepalm doesn't stop :D

btw... I already gave up with this community. I play retail for some months now and I am very happy there. It's so liberating when people do not know encounters and have to learn it... Classic servers are attracted by all these elitist players who can finally proof themselves that they can achieve something in their life (just a theory). Therefore, glhf kkthxbb ^^

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On 9/8/2017 at 10:22 AM, prsina said:

Is any1 preventing you from making your own team? I started playing with ppl at rank 4. Try it out, it's a lot more enjoyable than being a solo q autist.

Yet he completely has a valid point, telling everyone else to premade simply because a minority does it is silly and probably the more autistic comment. Fact is most of those who premade only do it for the fast and efficient honor gains, not to play with friends or for "fun" otherwise they would still do it after the changes if in a premade vs. premade queue system or continue going past their "honor caps".

I've heard this will hurt the premade teams and the game overall because the matches will be slower, and more competitive and therefore there will be literally zero reason for these players to continue doing so for honor and I completely understand that. The solution would be simply, figure out the average time of a normal match compared to a premade match and adjust the honor gains so they can continue to do what they have been doing which is to gain the same amount of honor that a solo Q player would gain in a much smaller amount of time.

Sadly this old PvP system is garbage and based around a time sink each week and I suppose premading was one way to get around that but at the end of the day this is how the system was meant to be played originally so I can't say I personally feel bad for the premade community seeing how the main motivation was a short cut to rank 14.

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On 9/11/2017 at 1:39 AM, Caber said:

More relevant to the topic at hand tho, they'll probably just find out that the change doesnt really do all that much except ruin premade vs premade games. People will still sync queue and stomp pugs.

true but they'll have a harder time playing with eachother.
1) diff length matches
2) highest risk of losing
3) hard to balance the honor gained among the team
4) solo Q players will be able to compete with premaders who relied on quick/fast games for maximum gains.

Overall it won't be good for them, but if Elysium wants to cater to the premade crowd without tossing the majority under the bus then they simply need to increase honor gains from prem on prem games and just watch out for win traders.

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6 minutes ago, TTL said:

true but they'll have a harder time playing with eachother.
1) diff length matches
2) highest risk of losing
3) hard to balance the honor gained among the team
4) solo Q players will be able to compete with premaders who relied on quick/fast games for maximum gains.

Overall it won't be good for them, but if Elysium wants to cater to the premade crowd without tossing the majority under the bus then they simply need to increase honor gains from prem on prem games and just watch out for win traders.

It indeed wont be good to premaders. But they're still players, you know? They're playing the game just like the casual puggers.

if this change doesn't help the puggers, but harms the premaders, then what's the point here? Why not just ban them if they're doing something wrong?

 

I agree with what you're saying by the way, but I think watching for win traders just isn't something the devs want to be doing with their time.

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2 minutes ago, Caber said:

It indeed wont be good to premaders. But they're still players, you know? They're playing the game just like the casual puggers.

if this change doesn't help the puggers, but harms the premaders, then what's the point here? Why not just ban them if they're doing something wrong?

They are technically not doing anything wrong, but as someone who loves to PvP but doesn't have the time to resort to making premading a full time job with organization etc. I prefer to just solo Q or join with a couple friends. Being steamrolled by organized premades with 2x the health because most of them are already rank 11-13 is absolutely silly, then to watch those players that naturally give up get banned is even more dogshit on top of the situation.

I'm glad the change happened personally, but again I'm also not taking advantage of the system to earn the same amount of honor a solo Q player would earn in 1/2 the time. I'm fine with prem on prem games, but obviously they would have to give that incentive to them again to make it worthwhile.

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1 minute ago, TTL said:

They are technically not doing anything wrong, but as someone who loves to PvP but doesn't have the time to resort to making premading a full time job with organization etc. I prefer to just solo Q or join with a couple friends. Being steamrolled by organized premades with 2x the health because most of them are already rank 11-13 is absolutely silly, then to watch those players that naturally give up get banned is even more dogshit on top of the situation.

I'm glad the change happened personally, but again I'm also not taking advantage of the system to earn the same amount of honor a solo Q player would earn in 1/2 the time. I'm fine with prem on prem games, but obviously they would have to give that incentive to them again to make it worthwhile.

Has the change actually changed much for you, though? Aren't you just still getting stomped by games that are 50-80% premaders?

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Just now, Caber said:

Has the change actually changed much for you, though? Aren't you just still getting stomped by games that are 50-80% premaders?

I haven't played much to actually find out in depth, but last night I did a few games who had some premaders in them and they were far more enjoyable and less faceroll. Most premaders are absolute garbage players but they have many advantages in a full premade team so it becomes unfun quickly as I'm looking for a fair fight, and they simply want to take advantage of the token/fast honor gains from a steamroll.

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On 9/8/2017 at 8:59 PM, Sevvy said:

Nice change, idiots.  Cater to the lowest common denominator of players just like Blizzard does!  Lololol.

P.S. Fix Viscidus.

Agreed stop catering to whiny to people who cry about everything and let vanilla be vanilla... I hate how much people cry about losing to a premade.... get better and create your own. This change sucks. Wow started to suck when they catered to the casual fan base and people that suck at the game.

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8 hours ago, riplip said:

Implement on Ely too please

Hey let's implement a change most people don't like because it helps lazy people who don't form groups! 

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Great change.

the same 20 people won't get to roll the server anymore. Let's smaller groups of friends be able to rank together. And in this case I have two friends so works for me!

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2 hours ago, Spriest4lyfe said:

Great change.

the same 20 people won't get to roll the server anymore. Let's smaller groups of friends be able to rank together. And in this case I have two friends so works for me!

You could already do this so I fail to understand how you think this is a great change for anyone.

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PM wanna easy farm, but other ppl dont.  Good change will be: make PM vs PM only competition but "easyfarmes" dont wanna do it that way much less. But seriosly guys, BGs not only for you. 

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